Lionel Legacy NW2

When I saw this entry and researched a little of the history of the NYO&W I wondered how the purchaser planned to model that railway into their layout. 

Are you buying the NW2 with your layout in mind, or do you plan to display it? Are there any other NYO&W models to be found?

I'm buying with my layout in mind. I run my trains not just display them. MTH has made a NYO&W 44 Tonner switcher in there recent catalog. I didn't order one because it doesn't smoke. 

Was the MTH 44 Tonner the number 104 that is on display in Duluth, GA?

I believe they made that one.

Has anyone seen one the the Legacy NW2's yet?  (York pre-production perhaps)

The illustrations in the catalog do not accurately depict the real locomotive's profile.

Note the "flat" section of the hood adjacent to the cab in the prototype.  The illustration has the slanted section running into the cab.

The catalog illustration lacks this feature, and more resembles EMD's SW9 series  (EL SW9 above)

I hope it is just an illustration error... 

Lionel says shipping in August, I believe. Naturally, subject to change. 

Dave Warburton posted:

Lionel says shipping in August, I believe. Naturally, subject to change. 

I hope it ships in August but you never know. 

I hope Lionel gets it right!

They had a prototype running on the layout at York.  Quite nice.  They have also added a larger speaker for more robust sound, thanks to Dave Olsen.  They have also improved the drive components from the S-2 from their discussion as well.  Should be quite as hit.

I ordered the Milwaukee Road version. My biggest concern is the sound set. I hope it has a good horn, not that annoying one (we all know what I mean). If Lionel uses the same sound set as the Pioneer Zephyr from several years ago, I'll be happy.

*not my video

Steam Loco Greg posted:

They had a prototype running on the layout at York.  Quite nice.  They have also added a larger speaker for more robust sound, thanks to Dave Olsen.  They have also improved the drive components from the S-2 from their discussion as well.  Should be quite as hit.

Ant pictures of the prototype NW2?

Jim Harrington posted:

Has anyone seen one the the Legacy NW2's yet?  (York pre-production perhaps)

The illustrations in the catalog do not accurately depict the real locomotive's profile.

Note the "flat" section of the hood adjacent to the cab in the prototype.  The illustration has the slanted section running into the cab.

The catalog illustration lacks this feature, and more resembles EMD's SW9 series  (EL SW9 above)

I hope it is just an illustration error... 

Jim, you have unfortunately used a later model -- an SW9 -- as your Erie Lackawanna prototype example, so that is not a prototype comparison.  All NW2's had a curved top edge on all 4 pieces of the front windshield.  No NW2's were built with rubber grommets around either the front or rear cab windows.  None were built with twin sealed-beam headlights.

NW2's were built with the stepped hood up through the late 1940's.  Late model NW2's had the straight slant on the hood like the SW7 and SW9.  I'm not exactly sure when the change was made -- 1947, '48, or '49.  There were a number of them built at the end, as yard dieselization was on a roll.

The NYO&W 116 is an NW2, with the flat or "stepped" hood, as shown in the prototype photo.  The Lionel catalog illustration does not have the step.

I used a photo pf an EL SW9  (see caption under photo) to make the point that the illustration is incorrect for the O&W; the illustration resembles an SW9; however, as you stated, a little research indicates that the phase V version of the SW2 did not have the notch.  See http://yardlimit.railfan.net/emd/nw2/. and http://yardlimit.railfan.net/emd/spotting/.  Thanks for clarifying.

It would be unfortunate (in my opinion) if  Lionel chose to model the phase V of the NW2, and apply the O&W livery to it, as it would be inaccurate, though the language in the catalog leave hope that there may be variations...

"Lionel is bringing this pivotal prototype to our roster of scale diesels with all new tooling which will capture the many detail variations found between the different prototypes including the changing body styles."

The Lionel catalog illustration of the NW2 with the with the slanted hood all the way to the cab is correct for all the Union Railroad NW2's which were built between 1947-1949,  so they were manufactured late in the production run.   4 were manufactured in 1947 and the rest in 1948-1949.   I believe they had 20 or 22 of them.

Nick

Here's a view of the NYO&W CAD model. The slant goes to the cab. None of the models will have the flat area in front of the cab. As Machinist stated above, this models the later run of the NW2.

Also, I do have the sample that was shown at York. I'll try to find some time later to take photos to post.

I can’t speak to the accuracy of each railroad and phase, but the YouTube video of Lionel’s presentation at this year’s TCA Museum would seem to confirm the “slant” goes all the way back to the cab… good for me.

Check out the YouTube video and go to the 12:00 mark.

Lionel at TCA with NW2

I will be getting the Santa Fe version. If it runs as well or better than the previously issued S2 switch units these will be fantastic for switching due to the extremely slow and controlled movement you can control.

Charlie

Dave Olson posted:

Here's a view of the NYO&W CAD model. The slant goes to the cab. None of the models will have the flat area in front of the cab. As Machinist stated above, this models the later run of the NW2.

Also, I do have the sample that was shown at York. I'll try to find some time later to take photos to post.

Thanks.

Bummer...

Bummer! MAny of my PRR books only show a PRR NW2 with the stepped hood!

Another one of those ...why did I @#$&#@ preorder!

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Bummer! MAny of my PRR books only show a PRR NW2 with the stepped hood!

Agreed, i.e. "Bummer"!!!!  Many/most railroads that purchased NW2 models did so early on, thus they would have the "stepped hood".  I certainly would have liked one of those versions, i.e. the "stepped hood".

Well that doesn't mean we can't do the stepped hood version in the future!

Here are a couple of photos and a video from the York sample. It's the CSX version, as you can see from the front grille.

The engine has had many improvements made over the S2 version we did a number of years ago. The motor has been moved to a horizontal configuration which allowed us to remove some redundant gearing to reduce the system friction. We made a new speaker enclosure and put in the standard 40mm speaker, so the sounds are clear and loud just like a regular Legacy diesel. We've also added the track IR.

Note: the sounds for the NW2 haven't been made yet. The sample has the S2 sound code in it for testing purposes.

Thanks!

That is all well and good to express your displeasure, but please be aware that MTH already has the NW2 (Railking Scale) with the stepped hood, thus, Lionel knowingly or unknowingly, chose a previously unmade version... which is what many people are and have been asking for.

Charlie

That low speed movement looks fantastic.

Dave Olson posted:

 

Note: the sounds for the NW2 haven't been made yet. The sample has the S2 sound code in it for testing purposes.

 

So, just to clarify, the video does not have the final sound set for the NW2? Can we get any hints at what the final might be? Hope I'm not asking too much.

Harry's Trains posted:

Dave Olson posted:

 

Note: the sounds for the NW2 haven't been made yet. The sample has the S2 sound code in it for testing purposes.

 

So, just to clarify, the video does not have the final sound set for the NW2? Can we get any hints at what the final might be? Hope I'm not asking too much.

That's correct. We haven't done the sound work yet for the NW2. We also haven't discussed the sounds yet, but will be within a couple of weeks.

Hey Dave, are these still on track to be shipping in August?

Trainlover9943 posted:

Hey Dave, are these still on track to be shipping in August?

It's scheduled to leave the factory near the middle of August. 4 to 6 weeks on a boat to get here. Say late September to early October.

Charlie posted:

That is all well and good to express your displeasure, but please be aware that MTH already has the NW2 (Railking Scale) with the stepped hood, thus, Lionel knowingly or unknowingly, chose a previously unmade version... which is what many people are and have been asking for.

Charlie

OK Charlie, but I would STILL rather have a Lionel SCALE, earlier version, NW2 for one of the railroads in the Chicago area. Such as CB&Q, IHB, etc..

Where will the control switches (run/program, etc) be located on the NW2?

On the top under the radiator hatch. 

Dave Olson posted:

Here's a view of the NYO&W CAD model. The slant goes to the cab. None of the models will have the flat area in front of the cab. As Machinist stated above, this models the later run of the NW2.

Also, I do have the sample that was shown at York. I'll try to find some time later to take photos to post.

Oh how VERY DISAPPOINTING! For $200 MSRP more than the MTH Railking, I was hoping the catalog picture was just an artists rendering and Lionel would produce this locomotive with the correct body and other NYO&W prototype details.

Catalog stated:  "Lionel is bringing this pivotal prototype to our roster of scale details with all new tooling which will capture the many detail variations found between the different prototypes including the changing body styles."

Although I may still add this Lionel to my NYO&W collection, I am even more mighty happy to own and enjoy my MTH Railking version which looks great, even with the movable pilots!

I hope it is as good as the H16-44, I am having a very good time with those guys.

It would seem that the ATSF NW2 #2405 had a "stepped hood".  I preordered this engine.  On one hand the improvements of the larger speaker and kadee mount pads should be applauded.  I have a Legacy S2 and the sound quality was a big disappointment and installing Kadees was a PITA.  On the other hand the incorrect hood is huge flaw that makes me scratch my head.  This is a case of one step forward and two steps backwards.  It is pretty frustrating.  I want to support Lionel and buy their products, but I am going to cancel my preorder on this engine.  I hope Dave was not kidding when he wrote that Lionel may do a stepped hood version in the future.  I would buy one.

Dave Olson posted:

Well that doesn't mean we can't do the stepped hood version in the future!

Here are a couple of photos and a video from the York sample. It's the CSX version, as you can see from the front grille.

The engine has had many improvements made over the S2 version we did a number of years ago. The motor has been moved to a horizontal configuration which allowed us to remove some redundant gearing to reduce the system friction. We made a new speaker enclosure and put in the standard 40mm speaker, so the sounds are clear and loud just like a regular Legacy diesel. We've also added the track IR.

Note: the sounds for the NW2 haven't been made yet. The sample has the S2 sound code in it for testing purposes.

Thanks!

This is one of the things that bugs me about Legacy sound vs. DCC in other scales. This sounds like the same rehashed EMD 567 sound set that goes in everything from F units to Geeps. Over in DCC land ESU has multiple recordings of each version of a prime mover. A 567 could be 6, 8, 12, or 16 cylinder with blower or turbo and they don't sound the same. Using one sound set to cover any engine with a 567 doesn't cut it for me. It's pretty easy to hear the turbo in this sound file. The NW2 did not have a turbo. Glad I didn't pre-order.

jonnyspeed posted:

This is one of the things that bugs me about Legacy sound vs. DCC in other scales. This sounds like the same rehashed EMD 567 sound set that goes in everything from F units to Geeps. Over in DCC land ESU has multiple recordings of each version of a prime mover. A 567 could be 6, 8, 12, or 16 cylinder with blower or turbo and they don't sound the same. Using one sound set to cover any engine with a 567 doesn't cut it for me. It's pretty easy to hear the turbo in this sound file. The NW2 did not have a turbo. Glad I didn't pre-order.

How would a roots blown EMD 567 engine sound any different than a roots blown 645 engine, no mater how many cylinders?  Now, how about a turbocharged 567 vs. a turbocharged 645?

jonnyspeed posted:

This is one of the things that bugs me about Legacy sound vs. DCC in other scales. This sounds like the same rehashed EMD 567 sound set that goes in everything from F units to Geeps. Over in DCC land ESU has multiple recordings of each version of a prime mover. A 567 could be 6, 8, 12, or 16 cylinder with blower or turbo and they don't sound the same. Using one sound set to cover any engine with a 567 doesn't cut it for me. It's pretty easy to hear the turbo in this sound file. The NW2 did not have a turbo. Glad I didn't pre-order.

As stated multiple times above, this is NOT the sound set that will ship with this engine. This is the S2 switcher sound set being used for testing purposes. The sound set has NOT been developed yet.

Pick pick pick pick pick. had I waited a long time for a certain road name I would be happy just to get it. As for sound I have  6 MTH steamers that all sound alike, don't even want to blow the whistles anymore.

Dave Olson posted:

jonnyspeed posted:

This is one of the things that bugs me about Legacy sound vs. DCC in other scales. This sounds like the same rehashed EMD 567 sound set that goes in everything from F units to Geeps. Over in DCC land ESU has multiple recordings of each version of a prime mover. A 567 could be 6, 8, 12, or 16 cylinder with blower or turbo and they don't sound the same. Using one sound set to cover any engine with a 567 doesn't cut it for me. It's pretty easy to hear the turbo in this sound file. The NW2 did not have a turbo. Glad I didn't pre-order.

As stated multiple times above, this is NOT the sound set that will ship with this engine. This is the S2 switcher sound set being used for testing purposes. The sound set has NOT been developed yet.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt Dave. Historically though Lionel gets the sound wrong as often as they get it right. I hope you can change that because the quality of the sounds are excellent.

jonnyspeed posted:

As stated multiple times above, this is NOT the sound set that will ship with this engine. This is the S2 switcher sound set being used for testing purposes. The sound set has NOT been developed yet.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt Dave. Historically though Lionel gets the sound wrong as often as they get it right. I hope you can change that because the quality of the sounds are excellent.

You need to give him more than the benefit of the doubt.  If you had taken the time to examine the thread you would have known this was a test soundset and not the one that will be used.

Sweet engine to add to stable