Lionel Legacy Scale & Operational Coupler Replacements

I would say pretty much all of the top line locos from the manufactures are pretty close to scale models. As far as a simple coupler swap to a Kadee. Not always the case. Diesels for the most part do not come with fixed pilots. This you have to do yourself. The exception is 3rd Rail and some of the smaller scale switchers. Most of the 3rd rail offerings have a quick change over fixed pilot to mount a Kadee. It’s just within the past 5 years or so that steamers come with pre drilled holes for mounting.

As far as operating couplers. Many leave the factory coil coupler in place and live with the swinging pilots. Most mate up well with a Kadee 805. MTH seems to be the exception to the case. A lot of operators just convert their rolling stock to Kadee’s. If you do go the Kadee route. You have to be mindful of your minimum radius. Especially with passenger cars.

As far as remote couplers. They are pretty much a small solenoid that’s just triggered with momentary voltage to open. Your pretty much stuck with the factory couplers. At one time MTH was developing a Kadee style operating coupler. It never materialized in O. But I believe was done in HO. I’ve seen some home brewed ways of getting a operating Kadee. Usually in steamers where there’s more real estate inside a tender. Kadee has a kit for large scale. Involves a stand alone transmitter to work. Doesn’t seem feasible in O to make a smaller version.

  I suggest you check out the 3RS portion of the Forum. Plenty of info. geared to scale models in 3 rail.

Thomas; all good questions, with unfortunately complicated answers.

Lionel: Yes, Legacy, LionScale, and most Standard O are scale sized (excluding couplers), but Traditional O and O-27 are semiscale.  Unfortunately, Lionel does not label these well, especially on the boxes themselves, which makes shopping for them difficult.  The modern catalogs tend to do a better job of differentiating between the two, essentially there is the scale locomotives and rolling stock, then the "traditional" locomotives and rolling stock.  Making it worse, some of the "traditional" stuff is scale too, but not necessarily marketed as such (example: the 0-6-0t "docksider").

MTH: Premier is scale (excluding couplers), Railking is semiscale unless its "Railking Scale" which is former Premier tooling that has been replaced by a more detailed version in the Premier line.  MTH made it easier by using purple boxes for Premier and yellow for Railking.

Atlas: My understanding is that everything is scale (excluding couplers) except their old "Imperial" line.  Master is most detailed, Trainman is less detailed, Premier is former MTH tooling.

3rd Rail: All scale (excluding couplers)

Regarding the couplers, Dave is correct that there is no current scale sized replacement for the "Electrocouplers" used by Lionel, MTH, Altas, etc.  I heard that Atlas had worked on one but it didn't go anywhere.  Essentially they consist of a sprung mechanism (like older O-gauge couplers) where the natural position is open, and pushing closed the coupler latches them closed.  When the electric solenoid is triggered, the latch is released, opening the coupler.  This is inverse of a Kadee style coupler where the natural position is closed, and their uncoupling tools/track temporarily open the coupler.  That is similar to the action of HO style couplers.

I think a scale sized electrically operated coupler is possible, its just a matter of figuring out a solenoid, mechanism, and packaging that will work with the pulse the locomotive gives the current coupler, release the coupler properly so the train can be detached, and fit in the given space.

Thank you for the replies. As a follow up question, are Legacy sets mixed scale?

In other words, if I were to purchase the Manufacturers Railway set from Lionel, or the Aliquippa set, I understand the locomotive is scale. Are the cars and caboose also legacy (ie to scale), or are you getting a legacy loco, traditional rolling stock? My basic plan getting into scale, since I don't intend to replicate a particular railroad or era, was to start by getting a few of those legacy sets to save some money. I'm starting from scratch anyways. I assume they're all legacy but, I thought it best to ask before throwing a few hundred dollars around.

A shame about the couplers. I can ignore it, the size just looks silly next to figures.  I'll email Atlas and see if they have a reply to post here. I'll also ask Lionel and Kadee, sometimes the hobbyist on the other end knows about some obscure company no one's ever heard of.

Regards,

When you make a scale model, you must make compromises. HO gauge modelers tend to make compromises leaning towards appearance and O gauge modelers tend to make compromises leaning towards operation. In the case of O gauge couplers, if you want them to look realistic, you not only need them to be smaller, you also must remove them from the trucks and mount them on the frames. And of course you need to replace all the hi-rail wheels with scale wheels. This means that you need an O72 minimum track diameter and scale track and switches. It also means that you have made so many modifications to the car that it will have limited resale value.

Why are these compromises necessary? Blame it on physics. When each dimension (width, height, and length) are reduced to 1/48th of the original size, the strength is reduced by a factor of 1/2,304 of the original strength because strength is a function of area (width X height: 1/48 X 1/48 = 1/2304). You don't need a lot of strength since the weight is reduced by a factor of 1/110,592 of the original weight because weight is a function of volume (area X length: 1/2,304 X 1/48 = 1/110,592). This is just theory because in reality you cannot reduce the steel molecules in size, you must make the small coupler out of fewer molecules and fewer steel molecules are not going to cooperate so you will need a different design and a different material.

So, enjoy model railroading. Make the compromises that bring you happiness. And don't get over zealous about making something perfectly to scale.

@thomas.emard posted:

Thank you for the replies. As a follow up question, are Legacy sets mixed scale?

In other words, if I were to purchase the Manufacturers Railway set from Lionel, or the Aliquippa set, I understand the locomotive is scale. Are the cars and caboose also legacy (ie to scale), or are you getting a legacy loco, traditional rolling stock? My basic plan getting into scale, since I don't intend to replicate a particular railroad or era, was to start by getting a few of those legacy sets to save some money. I'm starting from scratch anyways. I assume they're all legacy but, I thought it best to ask before throwing a few hundred dollars around.

My understanding is that the current high-end/Legacy sets are all scale.

Excellent replies, thank you.

I'm not dead-set on perfection, I just want to get as close as possible, without spending $10,000 on a single brass locomotive. It seems Atlas, MTH Premier, and Lionel Legacy are all within my budget, and darn close to scale if not spot on.

On that note, I'll grab some Legacy sets. My general go-to is Nicholas Smith or Trainworld, but if anyone has other suggestions that might save me money, I'm all ears.