Just down loaded this app and what do you know. If you refuse to turn on the Google GPS tracking the app closes. No option to opt out. Why on earth would they do this? I don't want Google to know everywhere I go with my tablet so they can sell the data to marketers who will bombard me with advertising.
Rolland
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Unfortunately, the Android permissions are not that granular - the "location" permission covers more than just GPS, but certain Bluetooth and Wifi functions as well. Because LC uses certain broadcast features of the Bluetooth specification that Android classifies as a "location" permissed activity, you end up with this requirement.
I have a couple older Android smart phones with no phone line. I use one to control smart speakers via my WiFi system. I have not tried the Lionchief app on them but they should work. I guess I wouldn't care if the GPS had to be on because the phone never leaves the house.
My Ipad is very old but runs the app okay. I always have location shut off and it doesn't seem to care. Is that an Android only requirement?
Amazing, I don't remember this requirement on my Kindle, which is kinda / sorta an Android device
@RLaHaie posted:Just down loaded this app and what do you know. If you refuse to turn on the Google GPS tracking the app closes. No option to opt out. Why on earth would they do this? I don't want Google to know everywhere I go with my tablet so they can sell the data to marketers who will bombard me with advertising.
Rolland
Who's android tablet?
@hokie71 posted:Amazing, I don't remember this requirement on my Kindle, which is kinda / sorta an Android device
Did you see the announcement that older 3G Kindles will not be supported on the internet soon? I have a 5 year old Fire that I'm not sure will survive. It was a employee gift.
@turkey_hollow_rr posted:Who's android tablet?
Did you see the announcement that older 3G Kindles will not be supported on the internet soon? I have a 5 year old Fire that I'm not sure will survive. It was a employee gift.
No I didn't see that. You may be correct on yours surviving. The one I have is new from the last Prime day. I got a, $25 trade in on the old kindle (which was close to yours). Seems I paid not much more than $60 after all Was said and done.
@bmoran4 posted:Unfortunately, the Android permissions are not that granular - the "location" permission covers more than just GPS, but certain Bluetooth and Wifi functions as well. Because LC uses certain broadcast features of the Bluetooth specification that Android classifies as a "location" permissed activity, you end up with this requirement.
Bingo.
If disabling location tracking is a desire, one might consider investing in an older iPad or an iPod touch. Both devices can run the LionChief app with location tracking disabled, as that setting will not also affect Bluetooth (which the LionChief app uses).
Rafi
@Rafi posted:Bingo.
If disabling location tracking is a desire, one might consider investing in an older iPad or an iPod touch. Both devices can run the LionChief app with location tracking disabled, as that setting will not also affect Bluetooth (which the LionChief app uses).
Rafi
That's simply choosing another set of issues to deal with. Apple has become the "AOL" of devices and Android has become nothing but an advertising platform. But I digress. . .
The tablet is a brand new Samsung A7. I find it interesting that Android options are so vague. Seems like the app developer could have made the request clearer. If it need access to Bluetooth I am ok with that. But I don't want location or WIFI dangling.
It doesn't really matter since I don't own any Lionchief engines that are Bluetooth compatible. I just wanted to try the app out at the club with some of the Legacy engines they have.
Rolland
Unfortunately, it is not up to the App Developer (Lionel and their contractors), but the Operating System maker (Google and Android Devs). Bluetooth LE scanning is covered under the location permission. The reason being along the lines of for instance that some retailers set up Bluetooth beacons to track shoppers (well, their phones) as they meander the shop:
Don't confuse my explanation as a criticism of your perspective. in fact, I am on the same page as you with that very same preference!
Of all of the smart device app based wireless systems I have tested, only one required an Android device. My experience was that it performed OK, but was not nearly as easy to use as the IOS based systems. Also, there were considerable differences between app operation on two different Android tablets. Operation on various IOS devices was virtually identical. My overall impression is that Android is OK, but not as easy to work with.
I get that app developer options are limited. But when you compare this Lionel app to the MTH WIFI app there was no requirement for location to be disclosed. I understand that Bluetooth and WIFI are very different animals but it just does not compute for me. As a result of this I will not be using or buying any LIONEL Bluetooth engines that require this app to use.
Rolland
@RLaHaie, as of this writing, I am not aware of any Lionel locomotive that ONLY runs using an App or REQUIRES using an App. There is always one or more alternatives whether it be a LC remote (dedicated or universal), conventional, or TMCC control.
@BOB WALKER posted:Of all of the smart device app based wireless systems I have tested, only one required an Android device. My experience was that it performed OK, but was not nearly as easy to use as the IOS based systems. Also, there were considerable differences between app operation on two different Android tablets. Operation on various IOS devices was virtually identical. My overall impression is that Android is OK, but not as easy to work with.
Yep, right up to the time they push out a new IOS and apps stop working as well.
The application writers are at the mercy of the operating system no matter which you choose to buy. In the android world, you also have to deal with all of the extra apps added by the merchants. I call it the "Best Buy" treatment as they are notorious for adding software that just drags performance down.
I say this after 30 years in the telecom industry, you pick your poison and learn to live with it. Yet another reason to despise the move away from hand held remotes.
It is all part of the "race to the bottom" regarding sales price that started in the 1950s. Instead of making good products that will last and are repairable, we get cheap crap that is designed to be replaced and at the lowest possible cost. Our society has whole heartedly bought into this philosophy which is the real shame. I doubt modern anything will be useable in 10 years much less the 110 years of some of my prewar trains.
Rollamd
I have quite a collection of handheld controllers and they have all worked well over the years. But I must offer that the many smart device apps I have tested provided an unusual and interesting set of operating features not possible with the handhelds. Example: running two trains simultaneously visual on the app. My opinion is that both formats have a long term role in our hobby.
@RLaHaie posted:It is all part of the "race to the bottom" regarding sales price that started in the 1950s. Instead of making good products that will last and are repairable, we get cheap crap that is designed to be replaced and at the lowest possible cost. Our society has whole heartedly bought into this philosophy which is the real shame. I doubt modern anything will be useable in 10 years much less the 110 years of some of my prewar trains.
Rollamd
R.,
I can agree with you, but only to a point.
Society hasn't bought into anything. The overwhelming majority of us would like to get our stuff fixed, rather than buying new. However since the late 50's the cost of repair has increasingly exceeded the cost to replace, largely because of rising wages for repair personnel. It's not always because things are made more cheaply -- sometimes they are, but not in every case.
Have you seen an appliance repair person's going hourly rate lately? Or any skilled trade? Skilled repair technicians are not cheap. In most cases we compensate them fairly well for their skill. As a result we can now only afford to pay them to fix our expensive things like cars, appliances and plumbing.
Mike
Your description is belied by the rise of Walmart and Amazon with their abundance of cheep Chinese crap. The big retailers like that used to sell good stuff (Sears, Montgomery Wards) are long gone. I agree that repair costs are high but things like clothing, toys, tools are all just cheep crap now. Everyone is just interested in the lowest possible cost, not quality long lasting goods.
This throw away mentality is reinforced by the tech industry with cell phones that only last a couple years before their non replaceable batteries are caput and Smart TVs which are soon obsoleted by operating system advances.
When I was a kid i helped my father service our TV with new tubes from the local drug and hardware stores. I also learned about electricity watching him fix appliances. Those days are long gone now.
Rolland
Rolland,
I hear what you're saying.
However, over the last 25 or so years Amazon and Walmart have kept things affordable for many, many people who's wages haven't risen very much. Value is the key word. Not always cheap as you imply; sometimes, but always inexpensive.
Model and toy trains made over the same period have held up remarkably well.
Sure, some do occasionally need repair, but so did those of 70 years ago. If they hadn't needed repair back then why did Lionel have a service network?
People do not throw away TV's very often.
Cell phones "get old" because technology, and the world that increasingly depends on it, is evolving faster and faster every day. Neither you or I can stop it. You'll have to take the good with the bad in that.
At one time the technology in a prewar locomotive was considered high tech. Why do think so many parents bought the sets for their kids? It was a way to make sure that those children could get ahead of the curve and compete in the world around them.
I am proudly, and very thankfully, one of them. I've had along and very successful career in Engineering that started with an electric train set. Today we call it STEM but it was already there way back then.
Today's tech is no different, except it comes much, much faster.
I think you're looking at the present through some seriously fogged glasses.
What's your alternative?
Mike
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