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Lionel O-27 switches and MTH DCS

BernieGBernieGOGR Forum Member
I have several (8) Lionel O-27 switches that I would like to use on my layout. I have just bought MTH's DCS with TIU (rev7) and one AIU. Currently running all my equipment perfectly.

I have two questions:

1.) Can I use these O-27 switches without degrading the signal from my TIU to my engines? I heard that sometimes when an engine runs across these switches, it will lose the DCS signal.

2.) My biggest question, How do I install these switches to work properly on my DCS layout. I can't seem to find information on this.
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walt rappwalt rappOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER
Bernie: the "theory" when using Lionel O27 switches is that the DCS signal degragates because it funnels thru the switches coils.

I used to use 31 of those switches on my Christmas layotu and found that to be, supposedly, true.

I landed up rewiring all 31 to use exteranl power, which bypasses power going thru the coils to the rails. I also rewired them to use some electrical components to eliminate the buzzing.

I offered an article to OGR a few years ago about what I did but they didn't feel it was worthy of publication.

Funny, but I'll bet that I've made this comment here over 100 times! I guess that's not enough though to make it useful information.

- walt
Barry BroskowitzBarry BroskowitzOGR Forum Member MEMORIALIZED MEMBER
Bernie
quote:
Can I use these O-27 switches without degrading the signal from my TIU to my engines?
Running the DCS signal through a motor coil can, and often does, cause the DCS signal to degrade. However, it's only going to happen when the switch motor is active.

If your O27 switches are like the one's with which I'm familiar, the motors are active only when you throw the switch or when a train bridges the gap from an isolated non-deraling control rail to the other outside rail.

However, the Rev. L TIU creates a more robust DCS signal than did its predecessors and that may mitigate the situation. In any case, the signal will only (possibly) degrade when the switch motor is active.
Barry BroskowitzBarry BroskowitzOGR Forum Member MEMORIALIZED MEMBER
Gary,
quote:
23 track powered O-72 switches and no DCS issues.
I suspect that your switches don't "chatter" when a train rolls through them. If that's the case, you would only possibly have a DCS signal issue during the second or so that the switch is being thrown. You press a button, the switch throws and the motor stops.

O27 switches, however, continuously activate a switch motor while a train is passing through the switch.
BernieGBernieGOGR Forum Member
Walt, Thank you for your response. I'm concerned about powering the switches also. I've read that it is recommended the switches should be powered by a seperate source from the main line. But they don't say how to do this. I'm not that electrically inclined buy I'll try anything given the right instruction.
Did you totally by-pass the switch coil? Then how did you get it to move?

quote:
Originally posted by walt rapp:
Bernie: the "theory" when using Lionel O27 switches is that the DCS signal degragates because it funnels thru the switches coils.

I used to use 31 of those switches on my Christmas layotu and found that to be, supposedly, true.

I landed up rewiring all 31 to use exteranl power, which bypasses power going thru the coils to the rails. I also rewired them to use some electrical components to eliminate the buzzing.

I offered an article to OGR a few years ago about what I did but they didn't feel it was worthy of publication.

Funny, but I'll bet that I've made this comment here over 100 times! I guess that's not enough though to make it useful information.

- walt
walt rappwalt rappOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER
Bernie,

I won't have time today but I'll try to remember to send to you the article and pictures that I submitted to OGR, the magazine. I've sent it to tons of people.

rewiring for external power is relatively easy and FREE. Eliminating the buzzing, if you choose to do that too, involves buying some electrical parts.

If I don't send it to you by next Thursday please don't hesitate to send an email to me and remind me, OK?

- walt
JM Jay MackOGR Forum Member
quote:
Originally posted by BernieG:
... I've read that it is recommended the switches should be powered by a seperate source from the main line. But they don't say how to do this. ...


It has the procedure in the instructions that came with the switch, at least I have the instruction with one of my switches. It shows you which wire to clip. Actually finding the wire is a little more difficult.
But with DCS you have 17 volts running anyway and the switch works fine.
Pine Creek RailroadPine Creek RailroadOGR Forum Member

Walt,

   Way back when you explained to everyone how to use the DCS with 027 switches

I worked your engineering method into my 027 Christmas layout, and it operated like a charm.

Because I no longer use my 027 track and switches I forgot to thank you personally for the use of your engineering education.  I appreciated it very much and I want to let the men who run LIONEL 027 track and switches know your engineering was sound and deserves recognition.

PCRR/Dave 

walt rappwalt rappOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER
Originally Posted by Pine Creek Railroad:

Because I no longer use my 027 track and switches I forgot to thank you

PCRR/Dave 

First off, and most importantly, I'm glad that it worked for you!

 

Secondly, you're more than welcome, that's for sure. 

 

BTW: for those 100 or so people that I've sent the article and pictures to, I've got slightly enlarged versions of the pictures if you would like for me to send them to you.  Here is a sample of an enlarged image:


 

PICT0167

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walt rappwalt rappOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER

Jay,

 

I just now sent to you 3 emails. 

 

The 1st one is contains the write-up and a sketch of the electronics, if you choose to do that part.  it also contains documents with the 14 pictures pasted into them.  This email is what I have sent to everyone before today.

 

Due to the sizes of the files for the 14 images (average around 1500 KB), I split them into 2 separate emails, 7 apiece.  I think I'll either retake these pictures using smaller settings on my camera or use some freeware to shrimk them a bit.  BTW: they are digital images of printed film pictures so the digital images aren't exactly top quality, but they're not bad either.

 

- walt

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