Skip to main content

I recently acquired a 1936 Lionel Junior train set (I acquire many old toy trains for cleaning, repair and resale.), and I'd like to get some indormation about the transformer before I put it on Ebay.   It is a 1030 transformer that is not mentioned in Doyle's 1900-1942 book.  Maybe it's in the TCA book, but I have only the first edition that doesn't have accessories.

This transformer is in a box that is marked Lionel Junior.  From my 1936 and 1937 catalogs, I see that this transformer was included in LJ and O-27 sets that had whistle tenders.  It's not listed for separate purchase.  The same train sets show the 1029 transformer included for the sets without whistles.

Some questions that I have, that could be answered by someone with 1935 and earlier catalogs.

What are the years of Lionel Junior ?  I see that the last year was 1936.  When did it begin.  

When was the 1030 transformer first produced ?  I see that there were several transformers with similar numbers and features around that time.   Doyle says the 1029 was a 1936 renumbering of the 1027.  It looks like the 1030 in a Lionel Junior box could have been an unusual item.

I'd appreciate any discussion of these transformers and the role of Lionel Junior.

Malcolm Laughlin

 

 

 

 

 

 

Attachments

Images (3)
  • 1030 a
  • 1030 b: box says Lionel Junior
  • 1030 c
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Lionel acquired the Ives trains after Ives went bankrupt in late 1929, along with American Flyer.  Lionel bought out A/F around 1931, and had the existing Ives line from then on.  From 1931, Lionel sold the less expensive trains, that combined the earlier Ives lithographed trains, as a departure from their more expensive 0 gauge items.  From 1931 through 1933, these items were marked Lionel-Ives.  In 1934, Lionel then changed the name to Lionel Jr., which were the smaller 027 trains.  This name was found on the collector plates of the locos 1681's, 1688's, 1689, etc., of that time period.  In 1937, the Lionel Jr. was then changed to Lionel 027 on the collector plates, of the same locos.  so, basically Lionel Jr. ran from 1934 to 1936. The Lionel Jr. was dropped from the catalogs for 1937 and beyond.

The 1029 transformer was the 25 watt unit, that was used for NON-Whistling trains, and the 1030 was the 40 watt unit, for Whistling trains.  1936 was the only year to list either transformer, as part of both cataloged and uncataloged outfits or sets.  The transformers were only issued as part of an outfit or set, and not sold as a separate sale item.  A 1027 was a transformer Station, and not a totally separate transformer, like the 1029 & 1030, so Doyle is incorrect with that statement.  There are items missing, or described incorrectly in Doyle's catalog, in either edition.  The only saving grace for Doyle, was the many photos available, compared to other books on Prewar from other authors.  I have multiple 1681 locos, and a whole stable of 1688's, and I can date the 1688/1688E locos to a specific year of 1936 because of the thickness of the casting, which is the "Thin Casting", which was changed to the "Thick Casting" from 1937 to end of production.  Hopefully this answers your questions.

Thanks for all of that information.  I'm going to print it and attach it to my TCA book.  

That info is in synch with the 1688 that came with the set and has Lionel Junior on the bottom plate.

In summary, this seems to tell me that the 1030 is an uncommon item.  I've had it on Ebay as a buy-it-now for $5.00 for several months.  I'll write a better description and see if it sells.

I use Doyle's book mainly for the photos, and brief descriptions.  I also have the TCA Standard of the World book, along with Greenberg's Guide to Prewar Vol II, 0 and 00 gauge, which lists more in depth descriptions, along with McEntarfer's book of Prewar Sets.  It takes some reading of all the books, to get a true sense of what is described of certain items, plus determining the actual year items were offered.   I never rely on just one book, and use all of them, when researching items for Prewar.  I have the 1935, '36, and '37 catalogs, to further check what was offered, by those years.

The 1030 isn't really uncommon, because of how a set or outfit was put together.  Some of the Sets, had a 1689T (non-whistle tender), as part of a set, where other sets had a 1689W (whistle tender), as part of the set.  That is where the McEntarfer book comes in handy, where the actual components are listed as they were found in collectors sets, or listed in a catalog from that era. I was fortunate to find my books at decent prices, and judicial shopping.

The 1688/1688E locos from 1936 are easy to tell from the later issues, because of certain details that ONLY show up on the 1936 issues.  The thin casting was only from 1936, and the 1937 and later issues were the thick casting.  The 1936 issue has an open firebox wall, where you can see the motor while looking into the cab. The firebox wall was added, and the casting was made thicker in 1937 and later.  There is a square roof hatch on top of the cab for '36, and gone on later issues.  Some, but not all '36 issue will have a "winged keystone" above the headlight.  The very first issued 1688E had 'Open forward facing windows' in the cab, which are Rare and hard to find.  The "Lionel Jr." motors for the earliest issues from 1936 have wheels that have 8 spokes, which were holdovers from the Lionel-Ives motors.  The later 1937 issues have wheels with 12 spokes, and the bottom plates show Lionel 027.  You will find some motors with Lionel Jr. tags, and 12  spoke wheels, and vice-versa, with Lionel 027 tags and 8 spoke wheels.  I have done an extensive research on the 1688/1688E locos, and personally have ALL the different body variations made from 1936-1941.  Greenberg's book listed 8 variations (1688 number plates or 1688E number plates, Gun Metal Gray or Black, etc.).   I came up with 18 variations.  If it is a 1688 loco, I can answer any question that someone may have, including the 1668 or 1588 Clockwork locos, that used the same basic body mold.

Another feature of the 1688/1688E locos are the motors used, which also helps to come up with close dating, but not exact.  There are a total of 3 different motors that were used during production.  The first motor mounted through the running boards with 2 screws, and the motor had horizontal plate for mounting.  The  second version used a single lateral screw through the body, toward the rear of the loco, just in front of the cab.  The last motor was the same style motor that was later used on the Postwar 1654 locos, and mounted with 2 lateral screws, through the body.  The first version of motor was used throughout the production, but started in 1936.  The second version appears to be from late 1937 to early 1938, and the last version would put it around 1939.

The features found on the 1936 locos are here in the photos.1688 comparison1688E roof hatch1688E keystone

Attachments

Images (3)
  • 1688 comparison
  • 1688E roof hatch
  • 1688E keystone

Add Reply

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×