Lionel product improvements you would like to see.

Eliminate the multiple gear gearbox on large steam. They can keep it back driveable, but just have a worm wheel and worm instead of 4 gears. Simple and rugged.

An actual piece of paper with the exploded view, part numbers and descriptions…..at least for the high end stuff??…..maybe?..

* I meant to add, and put it in the box the item is sold in,….😉

Pat

Correct prototypical colors.

@superwarp1 posted:

2.  the Option for fixed pilots on the larger diesels.  I only have one diesel and would like more but that swinging pilot just bugs the heck out of me.  If 3rdrail can give the option why not Lionel?

It's not really an option per se with 3rd Rail, it's the only choice.  Not that I'm complaining, I like fixed pilots.  A good compromise are the kinematic pilots that Lionel has.  They could just have a little tab that locks them in place. 

Another option would be to have the pilots "fixable", i.e. include some extra parts to affix the pilot to the frame and make it look seamless.  The default could be swinging pilot for those less mechanically inclined.

3. This is one for the servicing of Lionel products.   It seems to me the customer service dept for what ever the reason is overwhelmed.  How about letting the service centers do more of the work.  Give them the ability to Flash the sound boards, and RCMC boards.  How about tech classes like MTH used to do?   Why keep the warranty stuff so close to the chest?  Let your network take up some of the slack. License more service centers!!!!

Hear, hear!  Also, give hobbyists the ability to load their own sound files too!

4. More unlettered offerings.  Seems there is interest after Mr. Muffins suggested it for the 2-8-0 special run.

Yeah, I totally don't understand why this isn't the norm for common designs - especially USRA stuff.  IMHO, this fits nicely with BTO.  Just order a bunch of unlettered stuff for spare parts, and then if someone needs a replacement shell or something (rare) just have a pro paint it.

Other things that would be nice:
Better motors in steam locomotives.
A-A sets that are all powered like the recent Baldwin Sharks
Legacy upgrade kits

@superwarp1 posted:

Figure a list of improvements, features, or other things you would like to see Lionel incorporate in their products.

1.  I know there's a redesign in the works for the new Lobster claws, so no need to add that one.

2.  the Option for fixed pilots on the larger diesels.  I only have one diesel and would like more but that swinging pilot just bugs the heck out of me.  If 3rdrail can give the option why not Lionel?

3. This is one for the servicing of Lionel products.   It seems to me the customer service dept for what ever the reason is overwhelmed.  How about letting the service centers do more of the work.  Give them the ability to Flash the sound boards, and RCMC boards.  How about tech classes like MTH used to do?   Why keep the warranty stuff so close to the chest?  Let your network take up some of the slack. License more service centers!!!!

4. More unlettered offerings.  Seems there is interest after Mr. Muffins suggested it for the 2-8-0 special run.

Any others out there?  Post them here.

Those are all great ideas, and I would love to see these implemented.

I think Lionel needs to go back to the basics and and revisit their basic R&D and QC process. The issue of botched paint color has been a chronic problem for years now.  4 of the last 4 Lionel locomotives I purchased in the last year have had defective craftsmanship and significant product defects.

MTH, Atlas and 3rd rail have these problems too, but in My experience they are more common with Lionel.

I second 2, 3, and 4.

5.  Something to hold doors shut in boxcars.

6.  I know this is a stretch but more open source options for Legacy. Give people the ability to build on it.

7.  Better smoke unit availability. Tons of these have to be made for the locomotives and many of those wear out and fail overtime. I think this is a long hold inventory item but they will sell.

8.  Infrared eyes on the engine. The eye would be connected to a little memory board. You would program freight/passengers into the board via the Legacy remote. There would be another infrared eye on the layout at the destination. The engine pulls up to the destination eye until its eye communicates that the load on the train has been dropped off and the new one picked up. I guess this is infrared waybills basically. Might be cool! Differing geometries in engines make it a bit tricky but I'm not writing a patent. Just mentioning something I would like to see.

The future is bright in terms of nifty features.

There's a long laundry list that is for sure. I know a big one was with the VL Niagara how they shrunk the pick up roller space on the tender, why? That made no sense and I believe many have brought this up several times as it started with them and continued with other engines.

A big one, which Hot Water touched on a wide scope, what about correct "graphite" boiler color? Seems like a wide array of engines that should have had the dark complexion of the graphite boiler come out with either a light silver color or a whitish silver color. The thing is with that, the color schematics that have been released for custom runs show the graphite, and then the painting by numbers mess it up with the two mentioned colors. Sure people could send their engines to get the correct color put on, but why if it was supposed to be graphite. This can be compared to ordering a steam engine, and getting a diesel instead. It just don't work that way.

@superwarp1 posted:

Figure a list of improvements, features, or other things you would like to see Lionel incorporate in their products.

1.  I know there's a redesign in the works for the new Lobster claws, so no need to add that one.

It’s not just the claw that needs reworked. They need to either go back to articulated couplers or find a way to make the non-articulated design work. My Friendship PS-1 boxcars can not go backwards on an 072 curve without derailing.

Over the last five years, the scale trucks/couplers have gone from industry leading to completely cheapened junk.

I’m going to try keep response constructive and not mention quality issues that have been beat to death.

- Enhanced crew talk. Can # specific crew talk was a feature 15+ years ago and should be standard. More variety and voices in crew talk. All of the crew talk on my recent engines sound very similar if not the same. Something like a PFA sequence would be great

- Agreed on unlettered engines. But they should let Mr Muffins run with these exclusively since he uncovered that market need. This would be great on smaller legacy engines and switchers

- Keep the sound cars coming. Unless it’s really special, I won’t pay $80+ for a scale boxcar but I’ll buy scale sound boxcars with electro couplers for $150

- This might be a reach…but new steam and passenger tooling. Its hard not to be envious of the variety in HO

@superwarp1 posted:

Figure a list of improvements, features, or other things you would like to see Lionel incorporate in their products.

3. This is one for the servicing of Lionel products.   It seems to me the customer service dept for what ever the reason is overwhelmed.  How about letting the service centers do more of the work.  Give them the ability to Flash the sound boards, and RCMC boards.  How about tech classes like MTH used to do?   Why keep the warranty stuff so close to the chest?  Let your network take up some of the slack. License more service centers!!!!

It was my understanding that many of the service stations often did more harm than good on the newer electronics.  This is not a slam at the Service Stations but in today's market you need someone that is also electronically inclined as well as mechanically.  Not everyone is that tech as shown on this forum.  We have a handful of folks that can do that level of repairs.

I'm desperate for Lionel to overhaul its iCab, LCS (iPadOS), and Wireless Camera iOS/iPadOS apps. They're ancient, and while functional, feel incredibly unstable. Better yet, here's hoping they consolidate iCab, LCS, Wireless Camera, and LionChief all into one app.

@MartyE posted:

It was my understanding that many of the service stations often did more harm than good on the newer electronics.  This is not a slam at the Service Stations but in today's market you need someone that is also electronically inclined as well as mechanically.  Not everyone is that tech as shown on this forum.  We have a handful of folks that can do that level of repairs.

Hence a class with a test at the end.  Pass get certified, fail ohwell.  Seems to have worked well for MTH.

All great suggestions, some I've never thought of.  keep them coming.

@superwarp1 posted:

Hence a class with a test at the end.  Pass get certified, fail ohwell.  Seems to have worked well for MTH.

All great suggestions, some I've never thought of.  keep them coming.

Lionel did test.  Next time you see Mr. Reagan talk to him about it.  I believe it was he who stopped warranty repair from being done out of house.

For the record I agree.  They should have at least a handful of Service Centers with well qualified techs.

@superwarp1 posted:

Hence a class with a test at the end.  Pass get certified, fail ohwell.  Seems to have worked well for MTH.

All great suggestions, some I've never thought of.  keep them coming.

Agreed. I’d love to see a version (even abbreviated or done by 3rd party)  open to the public as well. The ability to repair stuff is becoming more and more valuable.

Better detailed cab figures in their steamers. Something along the line of Arttista or even what MTH uses.

The answer is simple...TRAINS THAT PERFORM WELL OUT OF THE BOX  and continue to work past the warranted period...most important,  no matter high end or starter  items...

More LC+2 offerings, and with new molds. Paying $600+ for a postwar mold—I'm looking at you F3—is unpalatable, IMnotsoHO.

1. Colors need to be spot on for these built to order items. I find it really discouraging when the color is wrong on something I had to buy sight unseen. It ruins the trust that I am sure the company works very hard to build with its customers. Me personally, I have one of the recent 4-6-0 with the "battleship gray" graphite, which is a little disappointing. I'm VERY nervous about the ASA Packer set that I preordered, and not sure if I will order the P&R car 10 because I don't think the green will match other P&R equipment I have like it should.

2. Communication on issues with product. I have had several built to order items which had issues in the production run. Never have I heard from Lionel "this is what happened, and this is what we would like to do to fix it." I only hear about it here, because I happen to see the thread. To me, this means that others settle for a subpar product because they aren't a member here.

3. Unlettered runs. There are so many people that want small name railroads represented on their layouts, that this would be a wonderful idea.

4. (goes along with 3, but is kind of a new item): How about a starter kit for decaling? Maybe a basic computer program and printer to get people started with their undecorated items. 

5. A legacy conversion kit for the Lionchief/Lionchief+ engines (my P&R camelback is begging for some sort of command control) (I'd take an upgrade kit for most engines instead)

6. An emailed list of custom runs that hobby shops/groups are doing. It would result in more sales for them, and more sales for Lionel.

I know this is a rather large list that I (and several others) wrote, and that can make it really easy just to be bothered by it and move on, but I hope you use this as a way for Lionel to reflect on how to improve the brand.

@MartyE posted:

Lionel did test.  Next time you see Mr. Reagan talk to him about it.  I believe it was he who stopped warranty repair from being done out of house.

For the record I agree.  They should have at least a handful of Service Centers with well qualified techs.

Yes there was a test (YES I Passed!!!), and several did not pass.  However you got to remember the last classes was back around 2008!  Legacy was the modular boards back then. 

No real information provided to service centers since then.

Jim

Passenger cars that will run down to O-36 curves with the same road name/livery/paint scheme as the matching locomotives that are already made to negotiate O-36 curves - so that you don't end up with an engine that will run down to an O-36 curve, but matching passenger cars that will only negotiate curves of O-54 or greater.

My pet peeve. 

@Jim Sandman posted:

Yes there was a test (YES I Passed!!!), and several did not pass.  However you got to remember the last classes was back around 2008!  Legacy was the modular boards back then.

No real information provided to service centers since then.

Jim

And no info to the service centers is a problem BUT you and about a half a dozen or so others on the forum are indeed qualified.  I was told even though folks passed, when it came to actual repairs, many had to go back to Lionel anyways because the service tech made it worst.  Again this isn't all but Mike made it sound like a high percentage.  The problem with letting the consumer do the work is when they mess it up and send it to Lionel, they expect it to be a warranty repair even though they possibly exasperated the issue by opening it up and trying to work on it.

Again I really think Lionel needs some good service centers to work with CS in Concord.  Rather than training 100 mediocre techs maybe train 50 really good ones and let them do some of the warranty stuff.

But I understand what you are saying too, once out of warranty Lionel doesn't want anything to do with it and without training since 2008 how are you supposed to fix the newer, out of warranty, stuff.

@Matt_GNo27 posted:

More LC+2 offerings, and with new molds. Paying $600+ for a postwar mold—I'm looking at you F3—is unpalatable, IMnotsoHO.

Bingo! At the lc+ prices they should have mth imperial equivalent detail. The other option is to lower the prices!

@Matt_GNo27 posted:

More LC+2 offerings, and with new molds. Paying $600+ for a postwar mold—I'm looking at you F3—is unpalatable, IMnotsoHO.

@Csxcellent posted:

......................................... The other option is to lower the prices!

How much should they be, based on current manufacturing costs, shipping costs, etc..?

1. Air hoses on all O scale 3r cars. (LIONEL PS)

2. MTH starts color keying the brake wheel like other MFG's. do.

@Lou1985 posted:

Eliminate the multiple gear gearbox on large steam. They can keep it back driveable, but just have a worm wheel and worm instead of 4 gears. Simple and rugged.

They had that in the "first gen" Legacy stuff.  I own two.

I " think" the complex gearbox was introduced when Lionel switched to Canon motors....hmmm.

@MartyE posted:

Lionel did test.  Next time you see Mr. Reagan talk to him about it.  I believe it was he who stopped warranty repair from being done out of house.

For the record I agree.  They should have at least a handful of Service Centers with well qualified techs.

Whatever the reason. There was no better customer service than Lionel at Canfield, Ohio.

There are no local shops in my neck of the woods that could touch the turnaround time even with the shipping.

There was no sitting on hold for 30+ minutes if your lucky to even get through. RAs were handled via email and replies were made within 24hrs, typically much less.

Here's one. Lionel should go back to using email for customer service. It's much faster and easier for both parties.

Please Please Please get rid of the hokey crew chatter. most of it makes no sense . as retired railroader I find it very annoying , just listen in on a railroad scanner and you could improve it 100%.  and oh yes get rid of traction tires , die cast locos just don't need them.

@RickO posted:

They had that in the "first gen" Legacy stuff.  I own two.

I " think" the complex gearbox was introduced when Lionel switched to Canon motors....hmmm.

I’ll refer you to my request, as there’d be no thinking about it if Lionel just put a simple exploded view of the piece in the box ……the engineered drawing surely exists long before a product goes into production anyways,….so how hard would it be to fire up the old ditto machine and run off a stack of copies and shove them in the box,…..then there’d be no question on what gear box you got, ( or ain’t got )

😉

Pat

@EscapeRocks posted:

How much should they be, based on current manufacturing costs, shipping costs, etc..?

MTH's Premier F7 single As were in the $400 range, with the dummies around $180, yes? If LC+2s were at the same level of detail, I'd pay that. While price is an important consideration, so too, are the detail and accuracy, and the electronic features. I have a Williams "GP9" that was about $125 and I've put about $100 for LED lighting and ERR RailSounds. A matching dummy was $50. So we're around $250–$275 for a postwar-mold powered-dummy pair with stump-puller motors and RailSounds. I don't think that I'd pay $200 for another postwar-mold locomotive with modern motors and RailSounds, I'm not interested in more locomotives with postwar molds.

Last year I picked up a WBB GE 70-tonner for ~$270 from Charles Ro, but that's at the high end of what I'd spend for a Williams. In general TrainWorld's Williams prices are reasonable for what I would consider for a detailed, non-cruise-control locomotive. Add cruise control, and fan-driven smoke, and I'd say add another $100-$150.

If Lionel's LC+ FA had a Williams FA shell or the LC+2 F3 had a modern shell, I probably would get them at their current prices.

@harmonyards posted:

I’ll refer you to my request, as there’d be no thinking about it if Lionel just put a simple exploded view of the piece in the box ……the engineered drawing surely exists long before a product goes into production anyways,….so how hard would it be to fire up the old ditto machine and run off a stack of copies and shove them in the box,…..then there’d be no question on what gear box you got, ( or ain’t got )

They probably don’t want folks who aren’t “in the know” shopping based on the drivetrain.  I’ve long tried to keep track of which Legacy K4s has the intermediate gear that turns to mush when you look at it funny.  I’d rather NOT waste my money on the wrong one.

@EscapeRocks posted:

How much should they be, based on current manufacturing costs, shipping costs, etc..?

While we don’t know the input costs, mth prices suggested that we pay a premium for the bright orange box. Semi scale engines from Lionel are way too expensive based on what mth charged for similar, and often nicer models and the price of legacy fine detailed products.   I am not a Lionel hater (my entire small fleet is Lionel), but I never understood the excessive premium on traditional to mid tier items. I’m assuming part of it is that they are subsidizing high end innovation.

@MartyE posted:

The problem with letting the consumer do the work is when they mess it up and send it to Lionel, they expect it to be a warranty repair even though they possibly exasperated the issue by opening it up and trying to work on it.

The warranty terms are pretty ridiculous.  Buyer pays shipping, and all warranty repairs have to go to North Carolina.  It’s silly, and a waste of money and resources.  There has to be better options than the current state of things.

Follow MTH lead and offer 2R - 3R capability with a scale wheel option.

@rplst8 posted:

They probably don’t want folks who aren’t “in the know” shopping based on the drivetrain.  I’ve long tried to keep track of which Legacy K4s has the intermediate gear that turns to mush when you look at it funny.  I’d rather NOT waste my money on the wrong one.

You’re talking a percentage so small that group wouldn’t even show up on a radar screen…..the purpose of my query isn’t for that reason anyways,…..if you look on Lionel’s web site a lot of equipment parts breakdowns have become top secret………..

Pat

1. Add IR sensors to LC+2.0 Locos.

2. More Vision Freight Cars, especially modern ones like the ethanol tank cars.

3. Updates to the LCS App and I-Cab App (I made a post a while back discussing my ideas to improve LCS.)

4. Definitely the road name/number specific Crewtalk/Towercomm (My older Legacy ATSF B40-8W has this feature)

5. New loco/rolling stock tooling

6. Definitely the smaller passenger cars that work on O36 curves

7. Operating Accessories with Command-Control

8. O84 and O96 Fastrack Remote/Command Switches

9. Semi-Scale Locos with Legacy

10. Updated Legacy Command System (I mentioned this in a previous post, too.)

1. get colors right  

2.  better quality control

3. more variation in crew-talk sounds

Probably been mentioned somewhere before but....

1. Please replace the 'radio' chatter steam engines?!? I mean prototypically it doesn't feel right to be radioing in, when Telegraph reigns supreme, on an early steam layout so maybe just adjust steam engine crew talk to feel more realistic.... (for the ones that it makes sense for)
2. Customization options! For that 10 wheeler in Canadian Pacific last year there was the magnetic tender plate for more 'roadnames', but if sometimes(?) couplers can be switched out on engines why not also give us an extra bell (generic) or some optional 'snap-in' stair things for the front of our steam locomotives? Extra blank magnetic tender plate anyone?  Even if its just extra pieces you can order separately...
3. While not product specific, I would like to see Lionel appeal a bit more to Canadians to buy their products.  Between the exchange rate and the shipping, there's already a prepackaged disincentive to buying new as opposed to the used/eBay market.  Some companies make a Canadian site, operate a 'Canadian warehouse' (for faster shipping purposes), extend free/discounted shipping over x amount offers north of just the lower 48 states as well, or create a larger company presence in person.  I mean, LARGEST Train Show in CANADA is in Calgary, Alberta but have yet to see them with even a small booth there....  Put a CAD price under the USD price in catalogues maybe?

How about Wlliams built or style GP units.

A LC type transformer?  A clicker type transformer for pre-LC locomotives without going to TMCC/L.

better customer service and servicing of older product

lionchief plus level in starter sets

a locomotive camera like that one concept in the 90s

better reliability out of the box

fastrack with rustproof rails

the upgrade of the lobster claws to actually be good

better motors in starter set engines like the tier 4 motors i heard weren't all that great