Lionel's Issue of Former MTH 2900 class and Texas Type Engines

I admit I am a big fan of swinging bells, whistle steam, and any other feature that enhances the play value of the engine. But that does not mean I do not appreciate detail and fidelity to the real engine. In a perfect world I would love a Scott Mann 3rd Rail engine with Lionel's Legacy OS and all the VL features that can be packed under the shell.

But, back to the original question I posed, I am really curious what details MTH offered on these engines that Lionel did not. I would try source the parts and add them myself. I appreciate any feedback.

@RickO posted:

There has yet to be a Lionel engine of MTH tooling that is of comparable detail and quality.

If you want Legacy " bells and whistles"  get the Lionel model. If you want something more faithful to the prototype with a more bulletproof powertrain. MTH is the choice.

I say this as a " Lionel operator". This is not a "bash" against Lionel, just the facts given the differences in the actual product lines.

What details are missing from the Lionel models that MTH put on?

@T4TT posted:

I purchased both the 4-8-4 and the 2-10-4 engines. I understand these were originally MTH engines. Overall I am satisfied the level of detail. To my eye the two locomotives are identical except for the number board location.  I noticed that 2926 has tender truck chains but 5011 does not. I think the chains are great detail. Neither engine has whistle or bell lanyards. Maybe these engines have pneumatic bells, IDK. When MTH released these engines did they have lanyards?

I was just looking for comparisons offered by those that have the original MTH versions of these engines.

Kevin

Attached are photos of my MTH Premier ATSF 4-8-4 #2921 (20-3015-1) with PS1 delivered in 1995 and MTH Premier ATSF 2-10-4 #5012 (20-3056-1) with PS2 delivered in 2001. Both are early versions of the MTH models. I believe there were later versions that were more detailed. They are too large for my layouts so they remain "never run" in a cabinet. But, not one day goes by without my looking at them...

The same boiler castings and same-length frames were used on both models. They differ only in their wheel arrangements and trucks. The 4-8-4 dimensions are correct. I believe that the 2-10-4 should be 1/4-inch longer (1-foot full scale). I have a builder's photograph of ATSF 4-8-4 #2919 in which there do not appear to be whistle or bell cords.

@RickO posted:

There has yet to be a Lionel engine of MTH tooling that is of comparable detail and quality.

If you want Legacy " bells and whistles"  get the Lionel model. If you want something more faithful to the prototype with a more bulletproof powertrain. MTH is the choice.

I say this as a " Lionel operator". This is not a "bash" against Lionel, just the facts given the differences in the actual product lines.

@RickO,

I absolutely agree with you. My models were made at a time when MTH was investing in the production of advanced tooling for these large prototypical scale models. In my opinion, MTH deserves recognition for that.

MELGAR

My SF collection is finished up with 3 MTH Steam - all run like crazy and are different  vintages / proto 2 & 3. I’ve topped these off with the 3rd Rail E1 AB in “early paint”.
I like the historical connections of engines and prefer different sized engines. I don’t want All “big iron”.
So …. Here’s my 3 SF steam.

Right to left  
5012 is Early P2. It’s a bit “plain”. No lanyards, no deck plate (not possible because of “snake” wire running to tender),  cab roof cast in, smoke stack fixed, no tender chains.  New BCR, new speaker, new tractions.

Center is 3461 4-6-4 /p3. Perhaps the most detailed MTH engine I’ve seen. Friends that have seen it are Amazed !!! If you want and awesome runner that’s a Very Well detailed beauty, this is one to find !!!  Has extendable chimney, 2 lanyards, deck plate between engine and tender,  tender chains.

Blue Goose 3460 /p2. Guess what. This is SFs Only Streamlined - clad steam engine. And is from same “build” as 3461.
And just to group the SF early Passenger Service power side by side ….    
The Blue Goose with E1A

Cheers 😉

Looks like Lionel is still using their Signature 'mini pilot wheels' on your 4-8-4.  Much better set on the 2-10-4 however.

MTH's Hudson models seem to always have a proper scale pilot whereas Lionel still uses undersized pilot wheels even on their top tier steamers.

I lifted this photo from TrainBub's post above.

@TrainBub

That 4-6-4 looks amazing! I only have Lionel/TMCC compatible engines, and I always wanted a Blue Goose. I hope Lionel has the tools to make that 4-6-4 and the Blue Goose....they would be must haves for me. Based on the pics posted, it seems Lionel re-created what MTH had previously done...no more and no less. I had hope for lanyards and deck plates but oh well.

To the best of my knowledge MTH still makes its Premier steam engines in South Korea. Their quality control just seems better than in China. It started with Samhongsa and even though that company no longer makes O Gauge trains, the current Korean factory continues to turn out quality products. Too bad Lionel can't make their steam engines in Korea.

The MTH Santa Fe Northern that I have (cab #2919) has both a lanyard going to the whistle and one going to the bell. It also has an adjustable smoke stack that you can extend or collapse down. It is also powered by an American made Pittman motor. Another example of Korean vs. Chinese production.

Well that is both frustrating and annoying. Lionel's 2926 has an MSRP of $1800.00. For that amount I expected that at least it would be identical in detail to its MTH predecessor. The image on line shows both lanyards. I know the images are no guarantee, but if MTH had those details why wouldn't Lionel bring them forward?