Lionel's New Fantasy Cab-Forward and Passenger Train Operations

OK, blasphemy it is - well, is not really but I won't take time saying why I think that.

 

I have become interested in SP passenger cars anyway. I have recently got (a) the Lionel Shasta Daylight set (4 cars plus the two car add-on) and (b) the GGD articulated diner set of 3 cars.

 

I will certainly run the Lionel cars behind the AC-12 and another engine or engines. They are very nice cars. Nicole has posted a video of the four car set running behind Daylight-themed Baldwin Sharks.

 

I am not sure what else I might add into the mix. I have some K-Line 21" SP passenger cars. The finish on these is very nice but the interiors of most leave a lot to be desired. I am planning on doing some detailing work after getting two books on diners and parlour cars from the SP historical society. Watch this space.

 

BTW, I am not particularly troubled by the differences in the various Daylight colors from the different manufacturers. Life is too short to hope for anything other than an approximate similarity.

Nice to learn that I am not alone in this. Personally, I think the Daylight cars behind this engine will look sensational.

I too like the idea of a Daylight Cab Forward and also believe it would look smashing pulling Daylight painted passenger cars.  I think that the car behind my convertible is the Lake Pippin.  It is on the spur of the former Italian Swiss Colony Winery up the road from me in Asti.  These cars were for sale not all that long ago, so do hope the winery bought them because they look super in winery propaganda.

 

I'm a big fan of the cab forward and wish I could order one but my train dollars are going to another engine. 

 

Fantasy or not the the daylight CF is going to look great pulling those passenger cars. I can't wait for some pictures when you get them running Brian. 

I did purchase the Daylight Cab Forward. I have The Williams All Metal 8 Car Set to pull behind it. I am presently pulling them behind the Lionel Legacy GS2. Can hardly wait (But I Guess I'll Have To)!! LOL

 

 

Fred

Daylight painted CFs are indeed fantasy, but black Cab Forwards pulling passenger trains is definitely prototypical.  I rode the Argonaut behind a Cab Forward from Lordsburg to El Paso in 1950..

 

You can find lots of photos of such operations.

I saw a video last night with a black CF at the head of a Daylight passenger train as a helper.  I believe the train was going up Cuesta grade.   The road engine, a GS-4, was coupled behind the CF.

 

I have a set of MTH Daylight cars that I would use behind a Daylight CF.   A really cool consist would be the Daylight CF, followed by a Daylight GS engine, followed be the Daylight train cars.

 

Joe

Brian - As you know I am not a big fan of fantasy paint jobs, but this train will be a real show stopper for sure.  The cab forward is such a unique engine to start with and the color scheme on the SP cars are so sharp that it will make a beautiful train for sure.  Will look forward to your first pictures after you receive it.

 

Art

Yes ... I have the Daylight C-F on order & it will pull a couple of different sets of Daylight cars: the Lionel "SP Madisons" and the MPC "aluminums" (at different times, obviously).  

The first CF was a 2-6-6-2 passenger service for the Cascades.  Some 4-8-8-2's did have passenger steam and air lines for passengers.  All were BLACK!

If it were possible to reconfigure my layout to have 72" curves, I would have ordered one in a heartbeat. But alas, this is not possible, and so my Daylight coaches will be pulled by my Sharks. 

Dominic:

 

Nice to know that the Cab Forward does have a passenger train pedigree. I am told there are videos of it in passenger service.

 

Daylight colors, sure, pure fantasy, but I as well as many other like it.

 

It is also nice to see others have the same great idea to use this engine with their Daylight cars. For me, I am using K-Line 21" Daylight passenger cars. Should be one beautiful passenger train.

 

Thank you Lionel for your out-of-the-box thinking.

Nicole:

 

You have a beautiful Daylight passenger train. Good for you.

There's a set of BEAUTIFUL Lionel Legacy Sharks in S.P. Daylight for sale right now by one of the Forum sponsors (THINK:  Charlie and Chris).  An excellent deal!

Though I do not care for the new Lionel "Daylight-Forward" steamer, I feel that a better

choice for a SP fantasy application would have been the later "Bloody Nose" pattern,

as shown on the model Alco PA photo below. Both locos have square fronts and long

bodies, so a gray and red AC is an idea.

 

 

Last posting shows a nice Alco but it was made in HO and thus has no smoke and only tinny sound (just kidding).

 

Looking at the use of cab forwards in passenger service, I found this WikiPhoto of an AC-11 pulling an excursion train out of Reno, Nevada on 1 Dec. 1957. I am sure that there are others but they are not that easy to find:

 

 

Seems that the excursion was a sell-out; oversold by one ticket and that poor soul got the cheap seat atop the baggaqge car...

 

Best,

Dave

I too can sort of go along with this one. SP did after all put this kind of Daylight decoration on older black steamers such as the Mountains and at least one each of the Pacifics and the Atlantics. I’ll bet the CF was considered as well. Had we asked the question fifty years ago, someone just might have come forward and said something like “. . . yea, I was in the board room the day we considered that . . . lost by one vote, it did. One too many bean counters suggested the CF was so long, it would have taken twice the amount of paint as any other steamer, and twice the labor to keep it clean (which they wouldn’t have approved in practice anyway).”

 

There now, how’s that for a fantasy assessment of possible history?

"I too can sort of go along with this one. SP did after all put this kind of Daylight decoration on older black steamers such as the Mountains and at least one each of the Pacifics and the Atlantics. I’ll bet the CF was considered as well. Had we asked the question fifty years ago, someone just might have come forward and said something like “. . . yea, I was in the board room the day we considered that . . . lost by one vote, it did. One too many bean counters suggested the CF was so long, it would have taken twice the amount of paint as any other steamer, and twice the labor to keep it clean (which they wouldn’t have approved in practice anyway).”

 

There now, how’s that for a fantasy assessment of possible history?"

 

I just love your assessment.

The bloody nose scheme began appearing in 1958, by then SP only had 34 steam locomotives on the active roster, mostly 2-8-0's.

 

By that time, I'd wager very few SP steam locomotives even got near any can of paint, let alone gray and red.

 

 

Rusty

And after that journey sitting on the cold hard roof, he felt at one with the locomotive.

 

Both of them had a tender behind.  

The reason that the Cab Forwards were not painted in the Daylight scheme is because none of them were assigned to pull those Daylight trains on a regularly assigned basis.

 

Yes, Cab Forwards were used often in passenger service, both by themselves or as helpers.  They were mostly used in freight service.

 

The SP ran through many, many mountains, with many tunnels and snowsheds.  Norden, in the Sierra's, had a turntable that was completely covered; part of that areas snowsheds.  Hence the engines became filthy is short order(we are talking oil smoke here; nasty, greasy smoke).  In later days the SOUTHERN PACIFIC lettering was left off the tender and not repainted.

 

Steve

"Both of them had a tender behind."

 

Nicole, that is without a doubt the best come back of the year!!!! 

Yeah, Rusty, I know, timing is wrong for the Bloody Nose - but since we're doing fantasy here, I gave it a shot.

 

Actually my real esthetic objection to the as-done Daylight-Forward is the -style- of the

scheme (I know some others who agree with me). It looks too much like that very

unattractive "SP Heritage Scheme" that UP put on the GE(?) diesel a few years ago.

 

But that's OK; I buy Lionel Pilot locos with no paint on them at all! (OK, there's a

clear coat.)

 

How about a UP Challenger or BB in Armour Yellow, with Gray and Red accents?  (Actually that might look...oh, never mind.)

 

The SP AC-9 rear-cab 2-8-8-4 with skyline casing would have looked better showing

a tasteful bit of Daylight.

I'm planning on running mine with a set of MTH Premier or Railking Daylight cars.