Lionel Strasburg #90 Arrives at last.

That's sux.

Now we wait for John to open it up and find more trouble.

I'm sitting on the invoice for my I1 decapod until there are some reviews. I've already read mention of a noisy gearbox.

After the long wait and anticipation, truly sorry to hear that John.

I didn't order one of these. But if I had I would not be happy reading Johns report.

I feel your pain.  Just received my first vision line engine.  The big boy had been force into the foam packaging.  On the rear of cab the foam was damaged plus the wheels had made deep impressions in the foam.  The worst part was the bell laying at the bottom of the foam and the wire was broken. Tried to assign a ID number to run it to the sensor track wouldn’t program or move. Push the engine to the sensor track and it loaded but still wouldn’t move. Sent it back to Lionel.

Really sorry to hear that you had that experience John! That’s an absolute shame that you wait for years and then you get a model that turns out to be a Lemon.  Do you have any recourse i.e. send the engine back and get a refund or anything like that?

Very sorry to hear of your experience John.  We all know how much you were looking forward to this engine.

What a shame.

I find my whistle smoke tends to be weak for the first few hours. I don't understand it. This happened on all my whistle smoke steamers. It ends up ok eventually. Maybe yours will do the same.

Can't comment on the lights though. That's just mediocrity. My 2-10-10-2 had no headlight until I opened it up and plugged it in.

More interesting to hear is the plan of attack, ….does he open her up, and join the warranty voiders anonymous club, or is it RA time?……inquiring minds want to know!..

Pat

Sorry to hear that. I had a similar experience, except mine the front headlight lens had been ejected and the left marker light didn't work. Was able to glue the lens back in and gave the marker light a few flicks and it came back to life. The smoke unit on mine is the loudest i've ever heard. Louder than the sound system, and like you my whistle smoke is very anemic. Sometimes it's thick white others it's non existent. Overall I like the locomotive but I'm not going to be convinced it's worth $1900, especially when the other decapods are going for 1200.

I’ve been there twice John….First was a Lionmaster Challenger whose smoke unit was totally trashed with one dead motor (I posted that not too long ago). But after the rebuild the engine is great.

Second was a Lionmaster Bigboy that had a short somewhere and a missing bell. Sent it back and got it fixed. Got the engine back and after a few loops around the layout sound and smoke dropped out completely. And it was a broken wire (most recent post). Resoldered the wire and sound and smoke returned.

I’m guessing you bought yours used as well. It’s just the chance we take buying used (and new for that matter). I’ve had the same problems with high end surround sound AV receivers using multilayered boards. The solder used now is “eco-friendly” and doesn’t stand up to the heat. Ring cracks develop at the solder joints and….down it goes.

I read the postings you and the other techs make keeping us model railroaders alive in our hobbies. And I swear, sometimes I feel “the wolves are nipping at your heals”; keeping us all going with this hobby. It’s awful and it shouldn’t be that way. This hobby like $3000 AV receivers are not disposable …..but I guess some companies think it is.

It just sucks😠

I haven't got mine yet. Shame to hear the issues.

@harmonyards posted:

More interesting to hear is the plan of attack, ….does he open her up, and join the warranty voiders anonymous club, or is it RA time?……inquiring minds want to know!..

Pat

I'm sure he will reply as soon as he puts the screwdrivers down Pat........

Really disappointing that the quality control is so poor.....

I'm truly bummed out right now, I was really looking forward to this one!  You just can't win I guess!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I got my Strasburg #90 and with eager anticipation I opened the box.  Looks good, however I found one of the windows and the tiny brass hinge in the wrapping of the locomotive, not a great start.

Right away I noticed while running that the tender marker lights were flickering a lot.  They weren't going completely off, but just changing intensity as I rolled down the track.  They didn't do that when on the test track with the tender not moving on the tracks.  I took the trucks apart and cleaned a little paint off the mating services.  Then I used a wire wheel on the Dremel to clean off the odd looking coating on the tender wheels.  That seemed to cure that issue.

Sadly, things seem to go downhill from there.

The whistle steam is anemic at best and simply not there most of the time.  Occasionally, I get a puff of smoke, but usually, you can't see anything.  I feel plenty of air coming out, so I know the path to the whistle is fine, so it's something internal to the smoke unit.  The main smoke works just fine, plenty of smoke there.  I even added more smoke fluid, probably 35-40 drops total and let it sit for an hour or so to soak between the chambers.  No joy, lots of smoke from the stack, basically nothing from the whistle.

As it was running around, I noticed the locomotive marker lights flickering, then they went off.  Reprogramming didn't fix anything.  I did see them flicker again a time or two before they decided to give up totally.

Looks like a loser to me, I'm NOT impressed!

I’ve found that putting a finger over the main smoke stack and blowing the whistle at the same times improved the smoke output of the whistle steam on my legacy camelback. I’ve found I need to do it only once after the locomotive has sat unused for a period of time.

@RixTrack posted:

I’ve found that putting a finger over the main smoke stack and blowing the whistle at the same times improved the smoke output of the whistle steam on my legacy camelback. I’ve found I need to do it only once after the locomotive has sat unused for a period of time.

Well, needless to say, I've tried all the normal remedies, and I'm not getting smoke out the whistle.  Since I'm getting plenty of air out of the whistle, it's not an issue of the path from the smoke unit to the whistle that's the issue, it's the smoke production from the whistle side of the dual smoke unit.  I get tons of smoke from the stack, and occasionally a wisp from the whistle, but normally nothing visible.

I can’t tell you what to do on this one John, but as long as it run good, I’d be inside in a heartbeat, …..but that’s me,…..when I got my Legacy J3a, the screws were coming out after a the first test lap,……😉

Pat

Interesting feedback, John, I did not expect to witness another fellow modeler going through the exact same experience with their #90. While running the locomotive yesterday 12/1 the tender marker lights on mine no longer would switch from white to red, and would just stay on red, or off. Reset + reprogram attempted with no luck, (ps - I noticed the factory reset procedure is different now by holding down the reset key instead of pressing a code). Whistle smoke output is a little better on mine. Dare I think of bolting and boxing it back up for an RA....

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I got my Strasburg #90 and with eager anticipation I opened the box.  Looks good, however I found one of the windows and the tiny brass hinge in the wrapping of the locomotive, not a great start.

Right away I noticed while running that the tender marker lights were flickering a lot.  They weren't going completely off, but just changing intensity as I rolled down the track.  They didn't do that when on the test track with the tender not moving on the tracks.  I took the trucks apart and cleaned a little paint off the mating services.  Then I used a wire wheel on the Dremel to clean off the odd looking coating on the tender wheels.  That seemed to cure that issue.

Sadly, things seem to go downhill from there.

The whistle steam is anemic at best and simply not there most of the time.  Occasionally, I get a puff of smoke, but usually, you can't see anything.  I feel plenty of air coming out, so I know the path to the whistle is fine, so it's something internal to the smoke unit.  The main smoke works just fine, plenty of smoke there.  I even added more smoke fluid, probably 35-40 drops total and let it sit for an hour or so to soak between the chambers.  No joy, lots of smoke from the stack, basically nothing from the whistle.

As it was running around, I noticed the locomotive marker lights flickering, then they went off.  Reprogramming didn't fix anything.  I did see them flicker again a time or two before they decided to give up totally.

Looks like a loser to me, I'm NOT impressed!

Lionel never disappoints

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Looks like a loser to me, I'm NOT impressed!

You get what you pay for..................................................Oh Wait ! 

John

It is really disappointing on how long these were up in the air to be done right.

Last January in Springfield, I asked Dave O. why there was such a delay with the release of #90, and he looked me in the eye and said, "Because we want it to be perfect when you take delivery of it."

When a review like this comes from the guy who can fix anything, I take notice. After seeing how good it looks, I regretted canceling my pre-order and came close to buying one yesterday. After reading about these experiences, I'm going to hold off.

Guy's it's not like I can't fix it, it's like why the **** should I have to???  I started out fixing a couple things and then thought: What am I doing??? I shouldn't have to spend hours making something this expensive right!  I'll be packing it up...

Hi John,

Very sorry to hear this, I just received a repair that has the same issue. After snooping around i found that the LCP3 whistle smoke port is dead, this is the second one that i received like this in the last 4 months. Although this isn't a number 90 ,it's a USRA Pacific. The one i had before this had the same issue, both engines main smoke was plentiful both whistle steam were dead.

Thanks, Alex

PS - On a happy note! i will be back to work on your passenger cars soon !

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Guy's it's not like I can't fix it, it's like why the **** should I have to???  I started out fixing a couple things and then thought: What am I doing??? I shouldn't have to spend hours making something this expensive right!  I'll be packing it up...

No doubt you COULD fix it, ….I was just curious if you were, ….I hope it all works out and they get it fixed, …..

Pat

@BlueComet400 posted:

When a review like this comes from the guy who can fix anything, I take notice.

Whether John or any of the rest of us can fix these defects (which he surely can), we should not have to, especially with Lionel's stance on invalidating the warranty if you do open the locomotive up.  They are having it both ways. While chiselling on QC costs, they are also avoiding warranty costs by inducing customer initiatives to self repair and by voiding warranties, shirking repair cost altogether. For my money the BTO model is dead. With their QC failures and their stance on warranties, they should be confronted with the full cost of all repairs including those that many of us could simply make ourselves. All of this is in the context of a limited dealer network, few capable authorized service stations and very limited parts availability especially the wholesale limitation of their TMCC parts inventories. Lionel has lost its way.  Pat B.

Theads like this is why I'm no longer a Lionel customer.

I regret that John has been so disappointed by a model that he had anticipated so enthusiastically. A few months ago, I purchased a new Lionel locomotive that ran for a short while and then would not. The train store, a forum sponsor, did the right thing and exchanged it for me. Since then, I have come close to some other purchases from Lionel but decided not to buy, especially at today's prices. Instead, I've been watching for good quality items on forum sponsor Trainz.

MELGAR

Sighhhhh….  Looks like it’s another roll of the dice. I’m still waiting on my invoice and I will pay it as #90 is a locomotive I’ve desired to be made more than any other.

This offering’s performance, especially at its price point, may determine my future Lionel purchases. It’s difficult for me to say it but with past issues of their products I’ve experienced mounting, some fixed some needing a fix, is wearing me out. If I never bought another train again I have enough models that work to have fun with the hobby for a lifetime.

My dream loco, in the 1940 Great Western livery.  And here l was regretting being a cheapskate for not springing an articulated price for an MTH Russian decapod equivalent. Well, maybe out in time a used one reengineered by one of the pros on here will be offered.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm truly bummed out right now, I was really looking forward to this one!  You just can't win I guess!

You must be as bummed out as I was with the Dreyfuss mess and having to return that set I have been dying to get for years.

Wait for it……someone will reply soon that we’re tinkerers and should accept this from Lionel.  

@BlueComet400 posted:

Last January in Springfield, I asked Dave O. why there was such a delay with the release of #90, and he looked me in the eye and said, "Because we want it to be perfect when you take delivery of it."

When a review like this comes from the guy who can fix anything, I take notice. After seeing how good it looks, I regretted canceling my pre-order and came close to buying one yesterday. After reading about these experiences, I'm going to hold off.

My local dealer was kind enough to hold a 1020 version for me while I mulled my options after reading GRJ's experience.  I released the engine this morning via email.

This reminds me of two anecdotes about never buying the first run of anything, and not buying a car built on Monday.

The lack of quality consistency within a specific model's run and across the product line is bad enough before you consider that the production failures span almost all aspects of the product; missing or unattached/broken parts, mechanical operation, cosmetic paint issues, and just breaking even spelling errors on expensive 21" passenger cars.

There will be subsequent versions of # 90 released per Lionel.  Maybe Lionel will work out the kinks eventually.  If I am alive and still care maybe I will buy one.  But for now; no thanks.

After the long wait for these, I actually was dreaming they'd deliver a quality product and I'd put it on the track and it would be perfect.  Now I'm having nightmares about how and if it will ever be resolved!

@Junior posted:

I’m guessing you bought yours used as well. It’s just the chance we take buying used (and new for that matter).

I don’t think anyone is buying a brand new, recently released locomotive, used.

This from a company that “has built its reputation on a promise to craft not only the finest quality model trains but extraordinary toys that ignite imaginations…” and whose “O Scale products are of the most premium products in model railroading. With superior mechanisms, high- end features, and stunning, life-like details…” Both quotes from the 2020 and most recent catalogs.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

After the long wait for these, I actually was dreaming they'd deliver a quality product and I'd put it on the track and it would be perfect.  Now I'm having nightmares about how and if it will ever be resolved!

I'm sure you're not alone John. A lot of people were waiting for this loco. One of the more iconic steamers out there today.

I'm heading back to Trainz now to shop for more second hand equipment..........

Bob

@Alex M posted:

PS - On a happy note! i will be back to work on your passenger cars soon !

I can use a happy note right now!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

After the long wait for these, I actually was dreaming they'd deliver a quality product and I'd put it on the track and it would be perfect.  Now I'm having nightmares about how and if it will ever be resolved!

Sorry that you're going through this.  Just think about the nightmares the repair guys at Lionel will be having when these returns start coming in the door.

@Trainman52 posted:

Sorry that you're going through this.  Just think about the nightmares the repair guys at Lionel will be having when these returns start coming in the door.

The nightmare is when they start coming back to the customers still not working!