Lionel Superbass question

Well, at least some do.  Just look at the BN ES44AC on the Lionel website.

http://www.lionel.com/products...9-superbass-2333439/

I can't think of any reason these wouldn't be able to run as the lead engine, but all my Superbass engines are B-Units, so I've never tried it.  I prefer powered units when I run an MU if at all possible, so I don't have any Superbass units suitable for a lead role.

Good to know - I should have thought to look at the Lionel site for the superbass engine specs.

Trying to decide between powered, non powered or superbass for my next addition.

Thanks for the info!

My concern would be- a B unit or other add on unit,  intended to be run in a consist- the Bluetooth does NOT identify as an engine. Let me repeat that- you cannot in many cases, add that engine using the  Lionchief BT app or universal remote using Bluetooth. The engine basically is passive bluetooth. When it sees another correct bluetooth engine connected and receiving BT commands- it receives those commands too in a passive mode.

In conventional, it may work, in TMCC/Legacy command it may work, but in Bluetooth, they are not setup as an independent engine you can run by itself.

I have a superbass, and I have run it as the lead with the powered engine directly behind it. The superbass gets pushed while the cars behind get pulled. I haven't had any problems doing that. I have used my phone and a tablet at the same time, one for the engine and one for the superbass.

Does a non powered unit have a smoke unit, and a speaker, or is that only on the superbass?

@Vernon Barry posted:

My concern would be- a B unit or other add on unit,  intended to be run in a consist- the Bluetooth does NOT identify as an engine. Let me repeat that- you cannot in many cases, add that engine using the  Lionchief BT app or universal remote using Bluetooth. The engine basically is passive bluetooth. When it sees another correct bluetooth engine connected and receiving BT commands- it receives those commands too in a passive mode.

In conventional, it may work, in TMCC/Legacy command it may work, but in Bluetooth, they are not setup as an independent engine you can run by itself.

That is good to know. I am only using the lionchief Bluetooth app at this time and hope that when I get the base 3 that it will be able to handle more complex operations.

@GAN Railroad posted:

I have a superbass, and I have run it as the lead with the powered engine directly behind it. The superbass gets pushed while the cars behind get pulled. I haven't had any problems doing that. I have used my phone and a tablet at the same time, one for the engine and one for the superbass.

Does a non powered unit have a smoke unit, and a speaker, or is that only on the superbass?

I believe, and I could be wrong, that most non powered units lately have fan driven smoke. I am unsure if they come with sound.

Whether they come with or without sound is dependent on the exact models. I have encountered them both ways.

FWIW, I've been adding sound boards to a number of my powered B-Units without sound, it's usually a fairly simple process as long as the proper sound board is still available.

@Vernon Barry posted:

My concern would be- a B unit or other add on unit,  intended to be run in a consist- the Bluetooth does NOT identify as an engine. Let me repeat that- you cannot in many cases, add that engine using the  Lionchief BT app or universal remote using Bluetooth. The engine basically is passive bluetooth. When it sees another correct bluetooth engine connected and receiving BT commands- it receives those commands too in a passive mode.

In conventional, it may work, in TMCC/Legacy command it may work, but in Bluetooth, they are not setup as an independent engine you can run by itself.

Hi all.

Wanted to clarify the above. In loco sets like ABBA (E-units, F-units, etc), the B-Units are "slave" when it comes to Bluetooth. Meaning the lead A-Unit is required for Bluetooth control.

This is NOT the case for SuperBass units that are not ABBA. If you see a SuperBass ES44 or SD80 as the OP mentioned, those are individual Bluetooth engines with their own BLE IDs. Basically they are normal Legacy engines, just without motors.

Hope this clarifies some.

@Dave Olson posted:

Hi all.

Wanted to clarify the above. In loco sets like ABBA (E-units, F-units, etc), the B-Units are "slave" when it comes to Bluetooth. Meaning the lead A-Unit is required for Bluetooth control.

This is NOT the case for SuperBass units that are not ABBA. If you see a SuperBass ES44 or SD80 as the OP mentioned, those are individual Bluetooth engines with their own BLE IDs. Basically they are normal Legacy engines, just without motors.

Hope this clarifies some.

Thanks Dave, I suspected that from the website, but it's nice to get it from the horses' mouth.

@Dave Olson posted:

Hi all.

Wanted to clarify the above. In loco sets like ABBA (E-units, F-units, etc), the B-Units are "slave" when it comes to Bluetooth. Meaning the lead A-Unit is required for Bluetooth control.

This is NOT the case for SuperBass units that are not ABBA. If you see a SuperBass ES44 or SD80 as the OP mentioned, those are individual Bluetooth engines with their own BLE IDs. Basically they are normal Legacy engines, just without motors.

Hope this clarifies some.

Excellent, thanks for the response Dave! This does clear up my questions.

I’ve never ran a dummy unit but just preordered a NS ES44ac to go with my legacy Powered NS ES44AC. Having not seen a dummy unit in action does it somehow connect & respond as a typical lashup with my Cab 2 controller? I’ve done multiple lashups so I’m familiar with that.
Just wondering if it’s the same for a dummy Superbass?

Thanks!

@Raven87 posted:

I’ve never ran a dummy unit but just preordered a NS ES44ac to go with my legacy Powered NS ES44AC. Having not seen a dummy unit in action does it somehow connect & respond as a typical lashup with my Cab 2 controller? I’ve done multiple lashups so I’m familiar with that.
Just wondering if it’s the same for a dummy Superbass?

Thanks!

Super bass  units have a legacy board and can be built into a lash up with powered units

Thanks Tom. I thought that might be the case but wasn’t sure.

I am seriously thinking about the Superbass PRR GP-9 B unit.  My question is how would it operate with non-Lionel powered GP-9's?  I have powered and non-powered MTH GP-9's.  Finally someone has made the cabless GP B unit.  What will the Superbass GP-9B do in a hypothetical MTH GP-9 consist?

I do have Cab 3 on order, but until then I run my Legacy via Bluetooth.  Do I bite the bullet and just get the matching Legacy GP-9 powered unit.  The trainphone antenna on that does make it interesting.

Not going to delve into how well the PRR DGLE will match (or not) between the two manufacturers.

If anyone has one of the latest ES44 super bass units that wouldn’t mind sharing a video of the sounds I would greatly appreciate it. There’s no videos on YouTube that I could find outside the emd units lionel already produced. Thanks!!

@CNtomato posted:

If anyone has one of the latest ES44 super bass units that wouldn’t mind sharing a video of the sounds I would greatly appreciate it. There’s no videos on YouTube that I could find outside the emd units lionel already produced. Thanks!!

Yes! That would be awesome.

@CNtomato posted:

If anyone has one of the latest ES44 super bass units that wouldn’t mind sharing a video of the sounds I would greatly appreciate it. There’s no videos on YouTube that I could find outside the emd units lionel already produced. Thanks!!

I agree! This may persuade my next pre order selection!

If I ordered a super bass unit to go another with my legacy bnsf heritage es44ac, can those be paired/run together in a lash up via the lionchief app? Or do I have to wait for the base 3?

Not trying to be too retentive, but the Super Bass Dummy ES44 can be placed on the point with smoke, directional lighting and sound coming from that engine and another TMCC / Legacy engine pushing in 2nd position? Is that correct?

The BNSF Super Bass Dummy is what I am considering.

Thank you.

Paul

@GAN Railroad posted:

I have a superbass, and I have run it as the lead with the powered engine directly behind it. The superbass gets pushed while the cars behind get pulled. I haven't had any problems doing that. I have used my phone and a tablet at the same time, one for the engine and one for the superbass.

Does a non powered unit have a smoke unit, and a speaker, or is that only on the superbass?

Looking back over the thread and I see you have to run two devices when using Bluetooth. For the super bass unit, even though it is not powered does it automatically adjust to the speed of the powered unit and produce the correct audio? Or do you have to throttle up the super bass unit? 

The app can only do 1 engine at a time.  I have a powered sd45 & super bass sd45, ill put them on the track together and see what happens. I have a legacy system so I never tried it that way.

@tom21pa posted:

The app can only do 1 engine at a time.  I have a powered sd45 & super bass sd45, ill put them on the track together and see what happens. I have a legacy system so I never tried it that way.

Excellent, thanks! I imagine I'll be able to run them lashed up and under one control once I get a base 3.

@Shaun D posted:

Excellent, thanks! I imagine I'll be able to run them lashed up and under one control once I get a base 3.

Yes the base 3 and phone app that comes with it will allow you to run them lashed up. 

Ok the test result is the super bass just sits at idle when attached to a powered unit under Bluetooth control

@tom21pa posted:

Ok the test result is the super bass just sits at idle when attached to a powered unit under Bluetooth control

Can you connect to the super bass unit with Bluetooth? Sounds like it would be fine if I ordered one now but I can't unlock its full functionality until I get the base 3.

You can only operate one engine at a time, or use two phones, but that's too much

@prr4935 posted:

I am seriously thinking about the Superbass PRR GP-9 B unit.  My question is how would it operate with non-Lionel powered GP-9's?  I have powered and non-powered MTH GP-9's.  Finally someone has made the cabless GP B unit.  What will the Superbass GP-9B do in a hypothetical MTH GP-9 consist?

I do have Cab 3 on order, but until then I run my Legacy via Bluetooth.  Do I bite the bullet and just get the matching Legacy GP-9 powered unit.  The trainphone antenna on that does make it interesting.

Not going to delve into how well the PRR DGLE will match (or not) between the two manufacturers.

I have a set of F3's, they're ABBBA, three powered, one superbass and all with sound and smoke.  It's like thunder when they start up and a real frog choker if you turn on the smoke.

I can tell you that different manufacturers will be problematic if you're talking MTH and Lionel.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I have a set of F3's, they're ABBBA, three powered, one superbass and all with sound and smoke.  It's like thunder when they start up and a real frog choker if you turn on the smoke.

I can tell you that different manufacturers will be problematic if you're talking MTH and Lionel.

That's what I figured Gunrunnerjohn.  I bit the bullet and ordered the powered GP-9 w/ trainphone antenna in addition to the B unit.

@Shaun D posted:

Looking back over the thread and I see you have to run two devices when using Bluetooth. For the super bass unit, even though it is not powered does it automatically adjust to the speed of the powered unit and produce the correct audio? Or do you have to throttle up the super bass unit?

Sorry it took so long to respond. The superbass doesn't automatically adjust the speed, and produce the correct audio. To turn up the audio, you have to manually push the throttle on the app up.

I would image that if you were running the set in conventional mode without TMCC or legacy you would be getting the sounds matching and engine speed sound matching in all the engines!

You could always open the SuperBass  engine with the Bluetooth App and control the announcements, bell and horn engine speed sounds while running the rest with conventional.

At our club we were considering how to run a SuperBass with a MTH lashup of MTH engines. That is what we were considering running the Superbass with the App and the MTH set lashup with the DCS system.

@kj356 posted:

At our club we were considering how to run a SuperBass with a MTH lashup of MTH engines. That is what we were considering running the Superbass with the App and the MTH set lashup with the DCS system.

That sounds like a ton of trouble just to add the extra sound car.