Lionel tinplate 800 series vs 2600 series

The 2600 cars have 4 whee trucks and are longer than the initial 800 series. However, the 820 series is somewhat comparable in size and has the 4 wheel trucks.

With your recent awakening to the prewar era, I would suggest that you get the "Greenberg's Guide to Lionel Trains 1901-1942" Volumes I and II. They are a bit dated (late 80's), but that makes them affordable, especially with the current revisit Greenberg is doing. Another good publication is "Lionel Trains The Standard of the World 1900-1943" by the TCA. Again, this publication is a bit dated, but still a great reference, available and affordable on the secondary market.

I second the recommendations to look at the new books by Bruce Greenberg. There are numerous corrections to previous works (and works by others) and a list of addenda is being compiled.

@Rob English posted:

I second the recommendations to look at the new books by Bruce Greenberg. There are numerous corrections to previous works (and works by others) and a list of addenda is being compiled.

Just to be clear, I was suggesting the older books form the late 80's as a more cost effective toe dipping measure. The new books are a spectacular resource, but can be somewhat cost prohibitive until one is fully a bit deeper committed. Additionally, the new volumes are not a complete set yet covering the whole prewar period.

Gotcha. I was offering the OP the suggestion for the most up to date penning. Either way, money well spent.

The 800-802 cars were 5.5” frames and four wheels. While 803-902 and the 600 series, 2600 series and the 3600 series were 6.5” frames and eight wheels.

Here is a Lionel 2680 and a 901 (800 series) Lake Shore Gondola

Thanks for all of that great information guys.

From what Rich has posted, it sounds as if the difference in length is really only about 1 inch, which isn't too bad at all considering the four wheel trucks.

Considering all of the series of the tinplate cars listed in Rich's post, does anybody have an opinion as to which of those series, in VG+ condition, would be the most inexpensive and available?   Which is the best bargain based on price?

Also, of those series, do any of them have problem couplers, which you would recommend that I stay away from?  I have seen a few at the local flea market that have the black plastic lobster claw type, with some sort of hook projecting out, and they didn't look very simple or robust.

Thanks again,

Mannyrock

Things get tricky quickly because there are not just 800 series and 2600 series cars as we explore things...

The first generation 800 series frame is 5 3/4" long, the second generation frame measures 6 3/4" or 6 1/2" (1930 on wards when the round ends were squared off) long and are also 1/8" wider.

Note: There is the 820 series (not to be confused with an 800 series) that measures 7 1/4" and has 4 wheel trucks.

Note: There is a 650 series that use 6 1/2" frames with four wheel trucks.

Now, getting into specifics - there is no 2600 series per say- it actually is a 2650 series

The 2650 series uses similar 6 1/2" frames to the 650. The prepended 2 to the number generally loosely signifies a 650 series car with automatic couplers upgrades and additional body styles.

Then enters the 810 large series of cars with 8 13/16" long frames.

Add automatic couplers and more body designs and you get the 2800 series of large freight cars.

Now, even more fun, we have the Ives acquisition and all of the lithographed car types to consider and this is why reference books are and so this is why the aforementioned reference books are a goldmine to help sort through this all.

@Mannyrock posted:

  I have seen a few at the local flea market that have the black plastic lobster claw type, with some sort of hook projecting out, and they didn't look very simple or robust.

Those may be Marx 6' rolling stock as Lionel did not have plastic knuckle/claw couplers. Here is a rundown of the Marx Coupler types, not all of which are compatible with Lionel. Diving deeper into the Marx Types is discussed here. Here is a high level rundown of the Lionel prewar coupler types (without getting into the nitty gritty casting and spring and mounting differences)

Thanks,

It looks as if the 650 series is the shortest set of cars that have 4 wheel trucks, so I will be headed towards those. 

The 2650 series that I have seen online appear to have that strange looking coupler I was talking about, being a black housing with a hook protruding, but I guess that they are metal and not plastic.

You tinplate guys are really helpful and friendly and I want you to know that I appreciate it.

Mannyrock

@Mannyrock posted:

The 2650 series that I have seen online appear to have that strange looking coupler I was talking about, being a black housing with a hook protruding, but I guess that they are metal and not plastic.

Yup, they are cast metal and called "box couplers". There are a few different cosmetic styles. The protrusion is the same as found on the preceding latch couplers. All the variations are covered in the aforementioned books. Another reason to dig into the aforementioned reference books is to learn that there are two principal coupler heights spanning the many truck designs (there is more to it than just "four wheel truck"). Generally speaking the large 810 , 2800, and 3800 cars are equipped with the higher height couplers, the remainder the shorter height.