Lionel TMCC Engine Takes off Fast in Command Mode

Looks good, it'll probably last a lot longer than the little plastic whiskers.

Larry,

Perhaps you could make this work - I found it as a Thomas -Clarabel car part - Lionel has them in stock - note the ID of the coil is ~ 6/32nds

Merry Christmas!

Carl .. It looks like a great spring the biggest issue to overcome is coming up with some method to secure it to the coupler or the body of the plastic coupler that had the whiskers broken off.. The current plastic part conforms to the shape of the coupler and the plastic springs or whiskers re-center the coupler 

Even if I do find a source for the original plastic centering spring .. they do not have any life to them.

I did modify the existing plastic body with some spring wire and 1mm shrink tube and it works quite well..

But I will pick up the spring you suggested and see if I can make a more elegant solution

Back to the Odyssey Magnetic ring .. recalling before the engine went totally ballistic (launch at full speed) and before I saw the ring fall below the flywheel. The engine at slow speeds was a little erratic in that it would crawl along nicely, then all of a sudden jump up at 2 or 3 times the speed it was set at for about a foot of track length, them settle back down .. it would do it on and off at a crawl speed.. if I bump the speed up a little, this characteristic disappeared. When I took the shell off, I did see a hairline crack in the magnetic ring. .. I was touching the crack to see it was truly a crack or a mark and it was a crack,, I then put it back together ran it and that was when it lost speed control .. full speed or nothing, Taking off the shell a second time, that was when I saw the ring down or out place and when I touched it, it broke into 3 pieces .. So I am thinking the erratic speed was caused by the hairline crack until it finally failed and dropped out of place.

But when it runs, the Odyssey with the can motors crawls nicely and very quiet.

Well, clearly, replacing the magnet ring is top of the list, that's a 100% requirement.

I am ordering one this week (just getting past Christmas) again, thanks for suggesting where to look for the problem .. when it first happened .. I was very concerned as to why

I keep a few of the magnet rings in stock, they're a very common failure point.

@Larry Martin posted:

Carl .. It looks like a great spring the biggest issue to overcome is coming up with some method to secure it to the coupler or the body of the plastic coupler that had the whiskers broken off.. The current plastic part conforms to the shape of the coupler and the plastic springs or whiskers re-center the coupler

Even if I do find a source for the original plastic centering spring .. they do not have any life to them.

I did modify the existing plastic body with some spring wire and 1mm shrink tube and it works quite well..

But I will pick up the spring you suggested and see if I can make a more elegant solution

I was thinking that it could be superglued or CA to the plastic housing after trimming off the plastic whiskers. These are fine and very soft wire, just enough to center the coupler bar.

First of all .. I rely do like Lionel's TMCC .. I have more than a half dozen engines with Command Control and only one with Odyssey .. a little frustrating at the moment

I was reading my Dec-21 issue of CTT and saw a letter to the editor from Nick Commando of Manorville, NY .. there is a lot of merit to his comment about past history variations of trains, pre TMCC etc.. see attached .. I do have a lot of non TMCC engines

Whatever blows your hair back.  I run strictly command and love it, so I'd have to spend time and money upgrading all those older engines.

John .. don't get me wrong me too .. love the sound, smoke, horn,, whistle, couplers and all .. Just a little frustrated with my Odyssey engine at the moment .. put on the new magnetic ring and that helped slightly (very slightly), but problem not yet resolved.. But the speed control at slow speeds is great compared to my other non-Odyssey TMCC engines.

Is there a gap range between the bottom of the magnetic ring and the pick up .. I don't have another Odyssey engine to compare .. I tried to look for a picture on line of the pick-up itself or if there is a gap specified .. could not find one.. any suggestions or just buy another motor/pickup assembly from Lionel?

I get them about 1/16" from the sensor, that works for me all the time.  Just make sure the armature free-play can't put it down and contact the sensor, that's bad!  Also, make SURE the visible magnet bumps face away from the sensor, the smooth side goes toward the sensor.

John .. I may have added to my own problem and shame on me if I did.. I pulled the flywheel and magnet back off the armature shaft and I do see a 'witness swipe' on the bottom of the magnet where it obviously contacted the pickup .. After I cleaned the old glue off the flywheel the new magnet fit nice and square up against the shoulder of the flywheel (dimples facing the flywheel). But when I glued it in place, it must have came off the shoulder of the flywheel a couple of thousandths of an inch, as I do see a very small gap between the magnet and the flywheel shoulder (again a couple of thousandths, no more) at the clock angle of the witness mark on the magnet side of the magnetic ring.  So I am wondering, could I have taken out the electronics that monitor the magnetic ring on the flywheel or the fact that there is a variation on the gap as the armature spins that is confusing the system.. At this point I am thinking of just buying a new motor, pickup and flywheel assembly from Lionel as they show it available ... hopeful the electronics are still okay .. before the old magnet came off in its entirety, the engine would be erratic at slow speeds (speed-up and then recover) and when I was investigating, I did notice that there was a hairline crack in the magnet before it eventually fell off in it's entirety.

Not quite sure of next steps.. any suggestions are always appreciated

PS .. I do not have any spare magnet rings .. I was not smart enough to buy spares

Nothing about the magnet ring hitting the sensor should have affected the DCDS board, so it it was good before, it's still good.

When you put the magnet ring on, it is essential that it be true, and that it can not contact the sensor.  Truthfully, it probably didn't kill the sensor if it's still intact, just rubbing on the plastic case won't damage it.  It's a hall effect sensor inside, fairly robust if you don't break the plastic case.

I pull the wheel, glue the magnet ring on and make sure it's totally dry and true, then press the flywheel back on.  The only other thing is as I mentioned, the end play of the armature has to be considered when spacing the flywheel.  I have it about 1/16" at it's closest, and unless the motor is damaged, the end play should not be excessive.

John .. I wish that I could find a picture of the top of the motor pickup assembly without the flywheel installed to see if something is gone or knocked off and lost .. as I am not sure if something is missing.. if I cannot find a picture, I will pull the flywheel again and post it and maybe you can give me an opinion if something is missing

Can't be much missing if the Hall Effect sensor is still there!

John .. Here are 2 pics from my RS11 .. So I am not exactly sure what the hall effect looks like let alone in decent shape, can you guide me?

I very much appreciate your help

I had order a number of parts from Timko, including the magnetic ring .. Frank does ship to me in Canada.. his turn around was quick

Sorry .. the one picture attached was a video .. sorry meant to be a still ,, here it is

Well, Q1 is the Hall Effect sensor, it appears it's been completely knocked off the PCB!  That clearly would explain why the speed sensor isn't working!

John, my hat is off to you .. thanks .. as I had nothing to compare this assembly too or even a detailed picture of a good assembly, I was at a loss as to what it should look like or what may be missing.  10-to-1 when the ring broke in 3-pieces, I am guessing one of the pieces took out the hall effect.. although it is small enough, I did not even see the remnants around when I pulled the shell.

So in summary I will order a new DC Motor with flywheel & sensor (6SP8590040) from either Lionel or Timko. Looking on0line Lionel still shows it available.

Again, many thanks for your help and guidance

I will let you know the results, once I get the part and install it

Yep, there's only one part on that board, so it was obvious that it was missing.  FWIW, I've found parts of the ring embedded in the DCDS a couple of times.  Needless to say, that's not good for it's health.

Well .. I have been in touch with Frank at Timko's Repair Depot and he sent me a new speed motoring PCB board (with a hall effect sensor on it) and I replaced the one on my RS-11 and now it runs like a champ.

Thank you for the help