Lionel UP FEF844 - less than O72

I don't know for sure, but I seriously doubt it! in fact Lionell recently use a MTH shell for their new Triplex! Alan

2 factors that probably equate to no. The FEF has tall drivers, thus, it has a long long wheel base. Combine that with the pedestal type tender, and trying to shove it through curves it wasn’t designed for might be a PITA, …..of course, you’ll find that one guy that swears he runs it on O-27, but what happens on his layout will never be the same results you get on yours. You really can’t go by what somebody else does on their layout and take it as gospel for yours. So many dynamics at play, ….track brand, how it’s laid, etc, etc, etc,….If you really want the FEF, figure out how to get rid of the O-64, and replace it with O-72 ……

Pat

Thanks Hamonyard,
Good advice.  The engine is just too expensive to “hope” it won’t jump the track in the one curve.  Unfortunately, there’s no way I can increase the narrower curve to O72.  Maybe Lionel will come out with a FEF to handle sharper curves.

My wish for the New Year is that manufacturers would give really specific reasons for the given minimum size curve. If the large drivers on the engine could handle an O64 curve but the tender could not, then a buyer could try replacing the tender or modifying the wheel arangement. This would not cost Lionel much to give us this information and it would have the potential of making more sales.

@John in California posted:

My wish for the New Year is that manufacturers would give really specific reasons for the given minimum size curve. If the large drivers on the engine could handle an O64 curve but the tender could not, then a buyer could try replacing the tender or modifying the wheel arangement. This would not cost Lionel much to give us this information and it would have the potential of making more sales.

That’d be kinda hocus pocus,…….the box would then have to read like a Dr. Seuss book, …”it don’t like your curves, it don’t like them here, it don’t them there, it don’t like them anywhere “ …when they test a production sample, they run it through various scenarios and determine the fool proof operation and that’s what gets labeled on the box, and or catalog. …the box can’t read “  for O72 track, buuuuuuuut maybe O64 if you spread your track as wide as you can “ …..you see, there’s a lot more at play here then just minimum curve, ….that covers switches, dog legging, S curves, and a whole slue of different aspects …….not just what it can or can not do in a loop,….hope that makes some sense, ….

Pat

Another point, I'd bet money that Lionel runs their stuff on their track for their curve specification.  If it doesn't happen to like Gargraves, Ross, Atlas, Realtrax, etc. tough beans, it runs fine on Fastrack.

You could look for a semi-scale FEF like a Lionmaster or Railking Imperial model if they made them.

My original Legacy 844 does 060 no problem. Anything less though no way.

I bet if we wait long enough, we’ll find someone that swears they can cram it through O27, ….😀

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

I bet if we wait long enough, we’ll find someone that swears they can cram it through O27, ….😀

Pat

I recall a poster who ran their legacy MR 261 on O-42. Indeed he did.

I just wonder how he didn't notice the paint scraped off of the counterweights on the drivers by the rods. It was obvious on the video.

(At some point, this modeler probably wondered why the I.R . Drawbar quit working.)

Over the years I've seen a few modern locos on video, for sale etc. With the same paint damage on the drivers.

@RickO posted:

I recall a poster who ran their legacy MR 261 on O-42. Indeed he did.

I just wonder how he didn't notice the paint scraped off of the counterweights on the drivers by the rods. It was obvious on the video.

(At some point, this modeler probably wondered why the I.R . Drawbar quit working.)

Over the years I've seen a few modern locos on video, for sale etc. With the same paint damage on the drivers.

Not to mention grinding the flanges to a pulp,……I bet they’re extra shiny in those videos!…..

Pat

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Another point, I'd bet money that Lionel runs their stuff on their track for their curve specification.  If it doesn't happen to like Gargraves, Ross, Atlas, Realtrax, etc. tough beans, it runs fine on Fastrack.

I wonder if they test it at all.  There are so many “my new xyz Legacy derails on O-72 FasTrack switches, what should I do? posts that I really doubt it.

I've wanted one of these UP #844 for a long time now and decided over a year ago to start buying 072 curves and turn outs. I have to completely rebuild the layout but after my wife pre-ordered the 2023 volume 2 one I have no choice. Merry Christmas to me

@rplst8 posted:

I wonder if they test it at all.  There are so many “my new xyz Legacy derails on O-72 FasTrack switches, what should I do? posts that I really doubt it.

As Lionel representatives have responded in years past, "We test products on our own track system, i.e. Fast Track, and have experienced no issues.". Thus, if something does not track properly on some other companies track system, the folks at Lionel don't really care about such issues, as it is NOT their problem.

@rpmcobra posted:

I've wanted one of these UP #844 for a long time now and decided over a year ago to start buying 072 curves and turn outs. I have to completely rebuild the layout but after my wife pre-ordered the 2023 volume 2 one I have no choice. Merry Christmas to me

And in the end, you’ll be much happier,…..the locomotive will look and run elegantly on the wider, gentler, more graceful looking track. ….leave the sharp 90 degree curves for the toy train guys & gals,….

Pat

@rplst8 posted:

I wonder if they test it at all.  There are so many “my new xyz Legacy derails on O-72 FasTrack switches, what should I do? posts that I really doubt it.

Well, we didn't say it was an exhaustive test.   Also, keep in mind that sometimes it's a subtle issue with the track or switches on a specific layout that contributes to the issues.

I definitely can’t speak for this upcoming production but the original from 2007 had a different minimum curve depending where you looked. I’m pretty sure the catalog said O-72 but the box claims O-54 or O-60. I am very sure mine has done O-60 but like the others have said O-72 is a definite if you looking for the grey line I depends on a lot of things.

I will say typically with the UP big three what is one of the limiting factors is that centipede tender

I have a Legacy UP FEF-3 Greyhound. I typically run 072 on my home layout, but 048 Fastrack around the Christmas tree. I’m gonna see it it can negotiate 048 curves whenI get home to CA.

Geno

ChefTed, Here are some things to think about:

In most situations, not even limited to model trains, things will usually work if you do a little more than is required, and a little less than is allowed.  If a locomotive is rated by the manufacturer for O72 curved track, then that does not necessarily mean O72 reverse curves, and -- although the locomotive may just barely negotiate an O72 turnout -- that rating may be based on the locomotive alone, and not coupled to a long car with a coupler that tries to drag the rear of the locomotive to the outside of the curve.

We’re getting lower!!!!….might do O48!……..c’mon O27!!!!

Pat

Wow, I thought it was a simple question.  What great responses from everyone, many thanks.  I hope Lionel development office is checking out these comments. Hope all have a very Happy New Year with lots of train time.