Lionel ZW & 2 power bricks

Two important and related questions:

  Q1: Do you want two 180W bricks or two 135W?

  Q2: Do you want one with the updated software that fixes the Legacy hiccup, or not?

Mike

2 180 W Bricks

Truthfully, I recommend against the ZW-C.  If you really want that functionality, consider the ZW-L, it's still supported.  If your ZW-C craps out, you're out of luck.  Also, as Mike mentioned, there was an update for Legacy to the microprocessor that is no longer available.

TRAINNERD

I agree with GRJ!  Stay away from the ZWC.  I had one, which I loved until the Problem with the Microprocessor. The Replacement was no longer available and still isn't. And they had a Mechanical problem on the Handles!  Go with a ZWL !! It's more Money, but worth it. I have one & LOVE it. Everything is in one Container.  I have one going on TWO Years now, and NO Problems!!

FREDSTRAINS

Stay Away. There were some on Ebay.  Very expensive and parts are hard if not impossible to get. Always thought I wanted one. Bid on one but was outbid by a forum member. That thing went for $280.00 !  He later posted it did not work after he got it. Never heard if he got it repaired.

I actually bought one off the evil Bay just for the 180W bricks.  I have no idea what model it is.  (Is anyone going to comment on evil Bay getting rid of the Scales in the categories?)

Anthony

If you setup a search correctly, you can still get back to how it used to work without the extra work.  I created a search that does just the O-scale stuff.

Search only O-Scale

Anthony,

If you get a chance check to see if your head unit has the upgraded software in it, (2) as seen below:

1.) Old, Not Updated

2.) New, Updated

It will obviously be more valuable if it has No. 2.

Mike

Isn't it funny how something seem to get a bad reputation and everyone says to stay away from it.  I have had my ZW-c using four 180 watt bricks and the add on meter display for 20 years now  still love it.  I guess I am just one of the lucky ones.

Another example:

Everyone is has been saying to stay away from earlier PS 2 MTH engines due to failures but I have had to have more PS3 locos repaired than I ever did PS2!

Good luck on your decision,

Don

What can I say Don, you are indeed lucky!   I have a large box of 5V PS/2 boards that came in dead from various causes.  Although the 3V PS/2 boards are far more numerous out in the field, I have a small handful of those that were truly unrepairable.

I've been using a ZW-C with 180 bricks and Legacy chip for about 15 years. I don't do a lot of voltage changing since the C will turn on B and C outputs where ever they are set when power is applied. The ZW-L does not do this, you have to raise the handles every time you turn it on. The reason why I never bought one. I realize the way I use the C, I could just use the bricks alone. But I like to see the voltage and current on the optional display...even thought the current is not quite accurate per output.

The current isn't even close to accurate on the ZW meters.

You can have accurate voltage and current if you measure the pure sine wave from the bricks.

Yes. I was thinking if I added up the two currents I'm using on B and C, it would equal the total current. I don't often use A or D. The current for each is wrong, but normal

Unless you're measuring the current before the chopped waveform generation, the currents will never be correct.

So if the handles are all the way up, close?

@cjack posted:

I've been using a ZW-C with 180 bricks and Legacy chip for about 15 years. I don't do a lot of voltage changing since the C will turn on B and C outputs where ever they are set when power is applied. The ZW-L does not do this, you have to raise the handles every time you turn it on. The reason why I never bought one. I realize the way I use the C, I could just use the bricks alone. But I like to see the voltage and current on the optional display...even thought the current is not quite accurate per output.

cjack, we have had this discussion before.  The ZW-L in conventional mode, will keep the voltage at the level set by the handles when turned off then on.  I’ve been running my layout like this for over four years.  Handle stays raised to 18 volts each time it’s turned on.

@cjack posted:

So if the handles are all the way up, close?

Should be a lot closer, but the waveform isn't exactly a sine wave.  Here's the ZW-C with a 2 ohm load at full throttle.

If you want to know why the lower power settings are inaccurate, one only has to look at the waveform with a 2 ohm load at half throttle!

@TedW posted:

cjack, we have had this discussion before.  The ZW-L in conventional mode, will keep the voltage at the level set by the handles when turned off then on.  I’ve been running my layout like this for over four years.  Handle stays raised to 18 volts each time it’s turned on.

Oh sorry, I didn't remember that. i thought there was something about having to lower the handles to zero and then back up. Was that just for a fault, or like the all stop on the CAB2? Or does the fault clear when you remove power?

I have been looking at the ZW-L again since this discussion...thinking I might just sell the C and get one, but they are backordered in general. I think Mario's has one at list. Shipping says next May or so.

cjack, lower handle to clear a fault, then raise immediately back to desired voltage.  But I don't want to thread jack, so will leave it at that.  Email me if you want something more.

@TedW posted:

cjack, we have had this discussion before.  The ZW-L in conventional mode, will keep the voltage at the level set by the handles when turned off then on.  I’ve been running my layout like this for over four years.  Handle stays raised to 18 volts each time it’s turned on.

The only problem I see with this option is that using the panic button will not cut power to tracks if you are running in conventional. I use the panic button often as trying to run 4 trains on one loop can get very confusing.

If this is not correct, please let me know.

The other thing I personally dislike about the ZW-L is the meters.  Unless you touch the B or C handle, there are no reading for those outputs.  An even if there was, unless you are right up on the transformer, you cannot read it anyway.

Don

@cjack posted:

Oh sorry, I didn't remember that. i thought there was something about having to lower the handles to zero and then back up. Was that just for a fault, or like the all stop on the CAB2? Or does the fault clear when you remove power?

I think you're remembering the MTH Z-4000, it has that issue.  The handles MUST be at zero to power up or it'll simply indicate an error and sit there with a flashing red light.

@DGJONES posted:

The only problem I see with this option is that using the panic button will not cut power to tracks if you are running in conventional. I use the panic button often as trying to run 4 trains on one loop can get very confusing.

If this is not correct, please let me know.

I use the transformer with the command/conventional switch on conventional with a single output on 18vac.  The “panic” button as you call it is a Legacy control system function, not transformer.  It stops all Legacy controlled engines.  Which is what I run.  I don’t have any conventional engines, only Legacy.  But we are getting off topic, so if need be start another thread for ZW-L issues.

@TedW posted:

I use the transformer with the command/conventional switch on conventional with a single output on 18vac.  The “panic” button as you call it is a Legacy control system function, not transformer.  It stops all Legacy controlled engines.  Which is what I run.  I don’t have any conventional engines, only Legacy.  But we are getting off topic, so if need be start another thread for ZW-L issues.

It also shuts the power off on the ZW-C. Then, with the C, you have to remove the power and then turn it back on. I do that with a remote key fob and an outlet that receives the key fob signal.

@TedW posted:

I use the transformer with the command/conventional switch on conventional with a single output on 18vac.  The “panic” button as you call it is a Legacy control system function, not transformer.  It stops all Legacy controlled engines.  Which is what I run.  I don’t have any conventional engines, only Legacy.  But we are getting off topic, so if need be start another thread for ZW-L issues.

That works OK if you only run TMCC /Legacy engines but I also run MTH as well.  That is why I like the ZW-c in command.  If I see a problem coming up, it does  not matter if it is a TMCC or DCS engine, the panic button shuts the power off completely.  All I have to do after is use the remote to crank the power back up on each output to start going again.  I do not have to return to the transformer as all is done from the CAB1 or CAB2 anywhere in the room.

I agree that the ZW-L is a fine transformer!  I still prefer the ZW-c!

Happy railroading,

Don