I believe the GW 180 is just a conventional transformer, just like the old cw 80, only better.

It does not have a powermaster.

The 180 powerhouses are tough to beat for safe, modern circuit protection with one of the fastest breakers in the hobby.

If you primarily run trains via the cab2. The 180w powhouse and the Legacy powermaster are the way to go.

On a side note. The Legacy power Master does a fine job of operating Mth locomotives conventionally via the cab 2, even allowing electrocoupler operation and access to some of the crewtalk.

@RickO posted:

I believe the GW 180 is just a conventional transformer, just like the old cw 80, only better.

Looking online it appears the transformer box is just a rheostat to adjust power. I can't imagine Lionel producing two different Powerhouse 180W. Although, I could be wrong...

@Jeff T posted:

First the how, why and what I'm thinking!

I don't have a layout and only run at Christmas around the tree. I currently use my old ZW for conventional and then add my Legacy system for the good stuff. Last year I had a few cars derail and one of the Christmas cars with lighting smoked pretty good and melted a few wires. Luckily I was able to save it. I would rather not add fuses and such making the old ZW even more cumbersome to drag out.

I'm thinking of going to a Powerhouse 180 and a Legacy Powermaster.

One question. Someone local is selling a GW-180. I assume the Powerhouse that comes with the GW is the same as the one you can buy individually?

Thanks for your help.

If you are looking for a direct replacement to your ZW I would go with the

ZW-1  sku: 6-37921

run’s everything and will have plenty of power for now and latter. Bonus is if you run only conventional at the moment, you can run them as if they have TMCC. All you need is any of the Lionel Remotes and they will control each channel of the transformer independently. It is expensive, but well worth the money for the long-haul.

I’m no electronics whizzo, but perhaps all you need is some fast circuit breakers?  This post here may help.  I do know that is no comparison to the protection a modern ZW-L has.

Gentlemen - I have NO desire to spend the $$$$$$$$$$ on a ZW-L.

@Jeff T posted:

Looking online it appears the transformer box is just a rheostat to adjust power. I can't imagine Lionel producing two different Powerhouse 180W. Although, I could be wrong...

Your not wrong. However the GW 180 is typically $100+ more than the brick alone. That $100 could go towards your $79 powermaster.

If your interested in running everything be it command or conventional via the cab 2. The powerhouse  brick alone, and legacy powermaster are all you need.

Another option is just add a TMCC Lock On to your ZW. Breaker is just as fast as those found in the ZWL and Z4000. Remove for conventional operation.

http://www.lionel.com/products...ect-lock-on-6-14178/

Pete

Don't overlook the MTH Z-1000 (100W). For a seasonal layout it would work fine.

@Norton posted:

Another option is just add a TMCC Lock On to your ZW. Breaker is just as fast as those found in the ZWL and Z4000.

Pete

The drawback with those is they reset automatically after several seconds, and the short can repeat if it hasn't been resolved.

Going Powermaster & Powerhouse I can run conventional with the Cab2. I'm definitely leaning this way. I can source a second hand GW-180 locally for a very fair price. Likely the direction I'm headed. Thanks for the input!!

Don’t get rid of the trusty ZW!…..at least when there’s a short, it’s a guaranteed fish fry, and it’s also a great back up if your stick welder ever fails,…..😉

Pat

FWIW, even tho you may have already made a decision.  I use the Airpax, on a refurbished "Z" it is fast.(instant).  YMMV.

Nothing wrong with a ZW. But you have to add fast acting breakers or fuses.

With what you want to do the power master & power house will work well.

I use a pair of Post War ZW’s to power my layout. I added a circuit breaker box to add some protection for my engines and haven’t fried anything since. I found instructions for building the box on an OGR Backshop video which is now available online (I believe you need to be a subscriber to view them online). Since I don’t do DCS, I was able to simplify things significantly by just having one set of connections. The small black box between the ZW’s is my box.

Here is a link to the online video.

https://ogrforum.com/...-circuit-breaker-box

@TedW posted:

FWIW, even tho you may have already made a decision.  I use the Airpax, on a refurbished "Z" it is fast.(instant).  YMMV.

That is very interesting! can you describe the Airpax,  and where you bought them. THanks, Dave

@DL Brunette posted:

That is very interesting! can you describe the Airpax,  and where you bought them. THanks, Dave

@DL Brunette   Dave, check the fifth post down in this thread from @texgeekboy.  He gives the discussion thread and link.  All the information you'll need I'm sure.

Just to follow up. Found a second hand 180W Powerhouse and ordered a new Powermaster from Mario's Trains. 

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Powerhouse & Powermaster set up! Programmed in two seconds, works like a champ!!

Why didn't I do this years ago!!

As a side note. First set I ran was the first set I ever recieved. A Quaker Oats promotional set from the early 60's!

@Jeff T posted:

Powerhouse & Powermaster set up! Programmed in two seconds, works like a champ!!

Why didn't I do this years ago!!

Better late than never Jeff.

I use four PH180's for my layout power, and for conventional operation, I have the MTH TIU with the variable channels.  Works great, and I've never felt the need for anything more.