lumber jacks not working

I am not familiar with this accessory at all, but the circuitry looks pretty simple. It looks like two wires come from the Fahenstock clips; one goes to an on-off switch, the other direct to the motor, though why it changes color several times is a mystery. It looks like it may have been rewired at some point. If the switch is a simple on-off, the third terminal on it would not be connected to anything. I would check the switch for continuity, then measure the resistance across the motor to see if it might be open. One or the other is the likely suspect.

Rod

Did you put AC voltage on it? It's probably a DC motor and I don't see a rectifier.

I had the same problem with my lumberjacks.  Check the solder joints, mine needed to be resoldered at the switch and also at the Fahnstock clips on the inside of the accessory.  I gave it a new lube job too with red and tacky, works great now.  Good Luck.

Here's what i have found,red- blue wire from motor goes to one side of the fahenstock clip,gray wire from other side of the fahenstock clip goes to center post of switch,black wire from motor goes to post on end of switch,third post on switch has no wire on it.

       Oman, the power is coming from the accessory side of a KW transformer,about 12 volts. 

       Rod  Stewart, I am begining to think you are right ,that it was rewired at some time,but i am not sure it was done right, what i may do is rewire it myself  with the little knowledge i have & see what happens, i will post what happens.

Laz57, What did you power yours with how many volts?

Gerald; I suggest testing the switch and the motor first, then go from there!

Rod

Rod  Stewart,I tested the switch for continuity & it is ok,can you tell me how to test the motor for resistance? , i have never done this before.  Thanks    Jerry  M.

Don't know if it's the one you have but in at least one other Lionel Lumberjacks accessory there's a circuit board (item 10) which apparently yours does not have.  The Lionel documentation suggests this has some kind of voltage control and AC-to-DC conversion function.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...1E4-BD4636DC75276F2A

I concur with the observation that your photos suggest the wiring is not factory grade.  For example (mere speculation), the previous owner modified the unit to run on some specific power source/voltage.  The Lionel documentation suggests these accessories run on AC or DC.

Looks like it is a DC motor and there may be a small circuit board on the switch. If you have a (Volt battery just connect the terminals to the DC motor to make sure it spins, Quick and easy test. Look at the switch and see if it has a circuit board with a rectifier component or a diode. Hope this helps. As Stan said above, may be the previous owner removed the rectifier/diode to make it run just on DC?

RonH, I am not sure what you mean by a volt battery, but i did hook up a AA battery to the motor & it did not move,i don't see anything that that looks like a circuit board,i would like to get this working again especially if i could fix it myself,i am going down to the layout now & do some more testing,to see what else i can figure out,will be back shortly.

I think Ron H typed (volt meaning 9 volt.  an AA only puts out 1.5 volts, probably not enough for the motor

I did some more testing,i hooked up a 9 volt battery to the motor & it did not move,i also tried a 12 volt ac to dc wall pack that i had used for some led lights & still the motor did not move ,so i guess the motor is no good. I looked up the circuit board & it is not available ,but there is another one i could use,but iwould have to change something on the board,i forget what part it is,i don't know if i could do this by myself,unless i could  have   someone   walk me through this ,step by step,i will check to see what it would cost me for the parts.  Here is what the parts would cost,motor $4.80, circuit board $10.00 plus i would have to change the regulator to a lm7809,i hve no idea what the regulator even looks like,so for now i am at a standstill,unless i can figure out how to do this repair.

The LM7809 is a voltage regulator chip with 3 pins.  They cost maybe 25 cents on eBay.  The function of the chip is to convert a higher DC voltage (more than 9V) down to 9V DC.  So it appears the nominal operating voltage of the motor is 9V DC.  To get a feeling for size, the distance between the pins is exactly 0.1".

But, in my opinion, if you have to buy a circuit board for $10, buy a LM7809 and modify the circuit board, you'll save some money by making your own 9V DC supply.  If you already have a source of DC like the 12V DC supply you mention, you can use a DC-to-DC converter module from eBay that costs less than $1 (free shipping, albeit from Asia).  These modules have been used by many guys on OGR.  They also have the ability to be adjusted to control the speed of the motor.  Yes, it wouldn't fit "inside" the accessory but does that matter? 

If you don't have a source of DC voltage, and want to use, say, the 14-16V AC voltage from your train transformer, then eBay also has similar looking modules which convert AC-to-DC for, say, $3 (free shipping).

More details available upon request!

If you want the supply to fit inside the case, there's more than enough room for a bridge rectifier, filter cap, and one of the little switching modules to generate the 9VDC required.  It would be very simple to whack that together and stick it to the base.

coach joe posted:

I think Ron H typed (volt meaning 9 volt.  an AA only puts out 1.5 volts, probably not enough for the motor

Sorry I wa away from a computer for a while and yes I meant a 9 volt battery. In testing were any of the motor leads disconnected from the switch/circuit board?

RonH , Yes both wires from the motor were disconnected,i hooked the 9 volt battery to the red & black wires from the motor & it did not move.  I am giving a lot of thought to what GUNRUNNERJOHN & STAN2004 have said i have to go some where now ,but i will be back in a couple of hours to see what i will do.   Thanks,  Jerry  M.

Gerald Marafioti posted:

Laz57, What did you power yours with how many volts?

Hi GERALD,

  Was away last night and didn't get to computer.  I powered the Jacks with 12-14 volts AC.  My wiring is the same as yours, with the wires coming and going from the switch and motor.  Just a thought, make sure you clean all the old grease off of the gears, sometimes that grease hardens and will screw up the gears.  Hope you get it working.

Gerald Marafioti posted:

 

...,i can't see any way to take the motor off.  

Per the parts diagram, item 9 is a motor-mount plate which looks like it's held by 2 nickel screws.  And the 2 black screws attach the motor to the motor-mount plate  Or if for whatever reason the motor-mount plate does not lift off, it looks like item 8 on the top-side of the accessory is a motor cover.  If the motor cover is removed I'd think you can remove the motor via the 2 black screws which apparently screw into threaded holes on the motor can itself.

Hard to tell from photos but I suppose there's a slim chance the motor wires are pinched in the mounting method and failed from fatigue.  So once you get the motor out, try splicing in to the wiring as close to the motor as possible and apply 9V to see if it spins.

I assume you already confirmed the transmission is not "frozen" and you can manually rotate the little pinion gear on the motor shaft and it smoothly transmits to the lumberman back-forth action.

Stan2004, I did figure out how to get the motor out,the log pile that was covering the motor must have been glued on, i had to pry it off with a screwdriver,once i did that i was able to lift the motor out with no problem,& yes the motor does spin manually,but when i hooked up a 9 volt battery it did not move at all.

                Laz57, The gears all turn freely ,there wasn't  that much grease on them.

       GUNRUNNERJOHN,  I would like to put this together & get it working again,if you can tell me what parts i need & what the numbers on the parts are, i would do my best to hook everything together,i know i need a motor i can order that from lionel,i have disconnected all the old wireing,the only wires that will be showing will be from the motor,in this case black & red. I would be starting from scratch the switch has 3 post on it,i would like to use 12 to 14 volts from the transformer to power this thing if you have the time to be able to walk me through this i would like to give it try ,bear in mind i know nothing about filter caps, bridge rectifiers,or switching modules,but i would really like to learn.   Thanks  Again,   Jerry.

GERALD,

  I don't know if you have the parts list from Lionel's site or not?  If you don't here it is,

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...548-A7983A12770B8CBF

Good Luck, let us know what you find out what was wrong.

Laz57,  Yes, i do have the parts list thanks for the reminder , i will keep u guys updated as i make progress, {  hopefully },i am looking forward to working on this,i wish i had the knowledge about the electronics so i wouldn't have to keep asking for help,but we will see how things go.

DC DC Buck Converter eBay: 221942286435 at $.95

Ignore the "Step-Up Switcher" label, it's the DC-DC Buck Converter above.  The AC goes in on the left, the DC for the motor comes out in the right.  You adjust the little pot on the switcher to 9V BEFORE you connect it to the motor.

John, Is there anything else i need to order besides the motor & the dc -dc buck converter ?, I looked on e-bay & i don't see the number you gave me,but i see one for $.99 with the number LM 2596 ,is this one the same thing?

You need the diode and capacitor I posted in the schematic.  As far as the module, I put that exact number in the eBay search box and found...

John, I went back & found the converter & ordered it,then i went to All electronics & found a diode with the number in4005, this is what was listed;  rectifier  diode  1am/600piv,is this the one i need?, i then tried to find the capacitor & i have no clue which one to order,they don't show one marked 50v.   HELP  !!!

A 35V one will do fine.  The value isn't all that critical, a 330uf, 470uf, 560uf, any of them would be fine.

Thanks John, is the diode the right one that i mentioned in my last response ?, sorry for so many questions,but i am really in the dark when it comes to electronics.

Considering you'll have to wait a couple weeks for the converter module from Asia, I'd get the diode and capacitor on eBay too.  99 cents for each part (free shipping) and you'll have plenty of spares to share with friends!  Minimum shipping charge at All Electronics appears to be $8.

Stan2004,  That is a great price, the one question i do have is the diode you show is # in4003,where as the one John shows is in4005,i don't know if that makes any difference,i am still waiting to here from John about that,by the way i just ordered the converter module & it has been already shipped,estimated delivery is May, 25 the shipping from All  Electronics would be about $ 8.00,so there is a big difference there & as you stated i would have plenty of extra's, if it doesn't make a difference in the diode number than i would order from e-bay i am not in any hurry to get this done,so i don't mind waiting for the parts.

The 1N4003 is fine for anything I can think of related to O-gauge.  It is a 200V component and since the AC voltage we deal with are around 18V AC or so, 200V is plenty of margin.  But if you're a nervous Nellie , you can get the 1N4005 (600V instead of 200V) for the same price.   You might ask why on earth would anyone use a 200V part when you can get the 600V part for the same price.  Well, that's a good question and there are technical considerations but none relevant to your O-gauge AC-to-DC conversion applications.

As Stan says, I just happened to use that number in the schematic.  I sometimes forget that many folks don't realize what the tradeoffs are.

Thanks  again John &  Stan, i placed my order for both the diodes & the capacitors on e-bay,they are due to be delivered at about the same time as the module,now i will order the motor from lionel ,when i have everything i hope i can put it all together,i feel pretty  confident that i can do this,i may  run things by you guys one more time to make sure i am doing it right,i just have to wait & see.

On my first true engineering job, 43 years ago, the work horse of the product line was 1N4004. The last digit of 1N400X  defines the PIV (peak inverse voltage) or in simple terms the working voltage. I think the PIV for 1N4001 is 50 volts, so any 1N400X will work.

John or Stan,i was going to wait until i got all the parts to ask this question,but i thought it would be better if i asked it now while it is still fresh in my mind. As you know i have  no knowledge about electronics,hence all the questions i have to ask,in looking at the schematic,does it matter with the capacitor which legs do the positive & negative wires get hooked up to?,same question for the module,going in to the module is there a positive  &  negative side?,& comming out of the module same question.   

Polarity matters on all of the components, the diode, capacitor, and the switching power module.  Hook them up as indicated.

Thanks John for responding so quickly,i hope these components are all marked,positive & negative,i   believe on the capacitor the long lead is positive,i will eventualy figure this out i am looking forward to when all the parts come in,i really enjoy doing these things,i just wish i knew more about it.

                                                          Jerry  M.

The switching power supply has + and - markings.

The diode is marked like this graphic, the band is the cathode.

The capacitor is marked this way, note the bar with the minus signs, that's the negative lead.

John ,thats great ,i printed out the information for future reference, if i understand your schematic correctly ,the cathode - i connect that to the positive side of the capacitor,the negative side of the capacitor connects to the negative side of the module in side,is that right?

Picture worth 1000 words?