daveb: Your wild guess for the SD45 demand is definitely wild! The builder minimum of 3 each per roadname on the MMW list that has 28 roadnames is a total of 84 reservations alone. That isn't even counting the roads that have multiple orders Like the very popular N&W Bicentennial SD45. Erik stated it was very popular! So MMW has easily attained the reservations to do the project. I have ordered 4 SD45s and am looking to order two more. Once these are produced they will most likely not be done again at this level. Stephen
If one does not have chutzpah to put a deposit down on a model with MMW that has invested already in the project and with Erik's good respectful character. Then This model is NOT for those who wish not to do so. Stephen
Originally Posted by nw2124:
daveb: Your wild guess for the SD45 demand is definitely wild! The builder minimum of 3 each per roadname on the MMW list that has 28 roadnames is a total of 84 reservations alone. That isn't even counting the roads that have multiple orders Like the very popular N&W Bicentennial SD45. Erik stated it was very popular! So MMW has easily attained the reservations to do the project. I have ordered 4 SD45s and am looking to order two more. Once these are produced they will most likely not be done again at this level. Stephen
SECOND call - Anybody for an original SD45 demo (4351-4353 etc)? (Hot Water, go easy on me, I don't know all of the details of the demos, just that I always wanted to run one)... 
Eric hasn't had much interest shown in these though he has gotten some SD45X interest.
Anyone else want a demo enough to get the numbers up for that model?
Originally Posted by daveb:
"2 rail "O5W" limits the market to about 50-75 models- P48 is about 2-3 as a Wild guess rough estimate"
All you have to do to fix that is make sure the guys with tons of money know that O gauge is incorrect. Most of this ultra high end stuff never gets run so you could probably put P48 wheels on them and most would never know the difference :>
.........DaveB
Daveb: You are quite correct, most models never get run. Model Railroader did a study years back and found that 80% of the HO items that are bought are never taken out of the box. Stephen
If I understand Stephen's post above, there are already 84 paid reservations. I would say this is a "GO". A good thing!
I don't even know what an SD-45 looks like. I lose interest right after an SD-9, which is a good looking Diesel.
Originally Posted by bob2:
I don't even know what an SD-45 looks like.
I'm not laughing at U!
It's just that we are in opposite worlds here. I barely know what a SD9 looks like!
SD45. EMD Hot Rod
(HO Athearn RTR pictured)
SD-9 is one of those super modern road switcher things.
I'm with Bob-
I'm with Bob-
Originally Posted by bob2:
I don't even know what an SD-45 looks like. I lose interest right after an SD-9, which is a good looking Diesel.
Not to be rude, but did you ever consider going to the MMW website and browsing around a bit.......naaaaaaaaaaaah, makes too much sense!
Simon
Originally Posted by Engineer-Joe:
Originally Posted by bob2:
I don't even know what an SD-45 looks like.
I'm not laughing at U!
It's just that we are in opposite worlds here. I barely know what a SD9 looks like!
Joe, it's really simple, you take an SD9and multiply by 5, and Bob needs to take an SD45 and divide by 5. or maybe that's the other way around!
Simon
Originally Posted by Erik C Lindgren:
SD-9 is one of those super modern road switcher things.
I'm with Bob-
I'm with Bob-
Yeap! You two alone make this site great. I just wish you guys would dabble more in the modern realm. But....with what you guys run and show here, makes me second guess my choices.
SD9!! How about an SD7? I picked up a Precision Scale SD7. First thing I did was remove all the running gear (motor, gearboxes, wheels, etc. New drive and some details will be added. Probably be painted & decaled in SP Tiger Stripe.
Just have to decide if I want to go Ow5 or P48. Maybe make to so it can be made into both by changing out the bolsters and wheel sets. We'll see.
Probably too old for this crowd, huh Bob?
Jay
The .115 OW5 and the P48 will use the same bolster. The .145 requires additional width between the sideframes.
My 3 are all P48 so that's daveb's estimate right there. And I'm not the only one. Killing off OW5 .145 is on my bucket list for 2-rail and this is my small contribution.
I'm not an SD45 fan at all but I have a personal attachment to the NW bicentennial unit and I like passenger locos, hence 2 SP SDP45s. In a sense I'm lucky the FP45 and the SDP40F didn't make the cut cause then we would be talking some serious money.
Erik may add them back into the next potential models list again as well as an SDP40. I hope not because with the SD39s and SD38-2s already in the planned followon run I'm already in trouble.
Originally Posted by rdunniii:
The .115 OW5 and the P48 will use the same bolster. The .145 requires additional width between the sideframes.
My 3 are all P48 so that's daveb's estimate right there. And I'm not the only one. Killing off OW5 .145 is on my bucket list for 2-rail and this is my small contribution.
I'm not an SD45 fan at all but I have a personal attachment to the NW bicentennial unit and I like passenger locos, hence 2 SP SDP45s. In a sense I'm lucky the FP45 and the SDP40F didn't make the cut cause them we would be talking some serious money.
Erik may add them back into the next potential models list again as well as an SDP40. I hope not because with the SD39s and SD38-2s already in the planned followon run I'm already in trouble.
My 3 are all P48 so that's daveb's estimate right there. And I'm not the only one. Killing off OW5 .145 is on my bucket list for 2-rail and this is my small contribution.
I'm not an SD45 fan at all but I have a personal attachment to the NW bicentennial unit and I like passenger locos, hence 2 SP SDP45s. In a sense I'm lucky the FP45 and the SDP40F didn't make the cut cause them we would be talking some serious money.
Erik may add them back into the next potential models list again as well as an SDP40. I hope not because with the SD39s and SD38-2s already in the planned followon run I'm already in trouble.
I have three Bluebonnets reserved in P48 also Richard, two 45's and one 45-2 so that's six between the two of us. I know some other models were reserved in P48 as well.
John
Now Joe got it. I really sort of know what an SD-45 looks like, in about the same way I know sort of what a 2015 Ford Focus looks like. I have to read the label, but I have a general idea. I think CLW did them, and I had a pair here for a test. Not my cup of tea, but they did run well, and were very long.
Jay - I prefer tiger stripe, but I cannot bear to change my PSC. And no, even though I love the looks of the SD-7 and -9, I not only cannot tell the difference, but also have no real desire to know. The black widow paint looks great with a pair of Daylight coaches behind it. If we ever get Microscale to do a rerun of tiger stripe decals, I shall repaint about three locomotives into that scheme.
"I really sort of know what an SD-45 looks like, in about the same way I know sort of what a 2015 Ford Focus looks like."
If you went to Tehachapi in the 70's,80's or early 90's you'd have seen lots of SD45's and Tunnel motors lugging the SP freights up the hill. They sound a lot sweeter than the newer locos that took their place...DaveB
Bump - Erik has a table at Indy for those who want to come and chat and get the skinny on the models...
And he tells me he's got some reasonably priced brass cars for sale too on his table.
Bob,
Micro Scale still offers the Tiger Stripe set. I know this because I just bought two sets from them. Only need one but I always like to have spares for the "Oh Cra* Factor".
Jay
Ordered two. Thanks - had no idea they were still available.
If you like SP orange, you need two sets. The decals are transparent; the second set makes the orange jump out at you. I am not totally sure the color is accurate, but it looks a lot better doubled up.
I think I shall re-do the MTH SD-9 or -7 or whatever it is. It is Black Widow now. It will be stunning in Tiger Stripe.
Check out the Midwestern Model Works update on the website! Must see!
http://midwesternmodelworks.com/general-news/
Stephen
Beautiful "renderings". I had no idea computers could do such beautiful drawings. I also note that he has been advised not to divulge prices.
Bob2:
Key, Division Point, and others do not divulge prices also. it is to keep prices down.
Stephen
Originally Posted by nw2124:
Bob2:
Key, Division Point, and others do not divulge prices also. it is to keep prices down.
Stephen
I would be interested in hearing how that process works. If you don't know the cost of something, how do you know if it is high or low? Or is this one of those "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." things? Sounds a bit like the mushroom theory to me.
Simon
If your price is going to be really high, do not publish it, and take reservations. If your price will be undercutting the competition, publish it and make up the difference in volume? Who knows - it is an interesting concept, probably related to the mushroom tactic.
Originally Posted by bob2:
If your price is going to be really high, do not publish it, and take reservations. If your price will be undercutting the competition, publish it and make up the difference in volume? Who knows - it is an interesting concept, probably related to the mushroom tactic.
How one is to buy something of considerable cost without knowing the price is a bit of a mystery to me. I suppose if I were Bill Gates or the like, I wouldn't care, but sadly, I have not reached that rarified air as yet!
Simon
Originally Posted by Simon Winter:
Originally Posted by nw2124:
Bob2:
Key, Division Point, and others do not divulge prices also. it is to keep prices down.
Stephen
I would be interested in hearing how that process works. If you don't know the cost of something, how do you know if it is high or low? Or is this one of those "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." things? Sounds a bit like the mushroom theory to me.
Simon
Sounds more like voodoo to me.
Instead of complaining about "What price is not published" you can always ask the importer directly and not b--ch about it. Stephen
Originally Posted by nw2124:
Bob2:
Key, Division Point, and others do not divulge prices also. it is to keep prices down.
Stephen
Did THAT bit of business/marketing expertise come from the Harvard MBA program, or the Northwestern MBA program?
Down to where?
No doubt these will be top notch, but I think this thread should be tittled MDMW surpasses all SD45 models to date.
All 2D screen captures of the 3D rendering or photos posted are property of (c) Midwestern Model Works
I am a visual person and like what I see!
The cooling ducts for the traction motors are especially nice; its this extra measure of authenticity that will set these apart from a lot of the market.
It's Euro Model quality in a U.S. Prototype. Marvelous! (Too bad it's so modern... Sadly for me this is the new market.) In a decade I doubt we will see very many "transition era" models imported anymore. The buyers are the market and they are demanding 1970's-today. I say produce for them guys! This is progress and a new arena for growth in the hobby!
Pricing on European brass models would scare most of us out of the room. This China Syndrome we have in U.S. can hurt the market as much as it can create one. Cheap out of the box prebuilt Chinese models in any case 1/64 cars to N scale plastic has rewritten the book on most of the hobby. For the most part it's set a precedent among the lion's share of buyers that a model can be had for $5 even though it would cost at U.S. labor rates over $35. These new buyers are stuck in this Chinese built pricing structure and cannot see out of it. Any said model over $5 is considered a ripoff and anyone arguing with them is considered a heretic. No wonder the hobby is rolling up the sidewalks and turn off the lights in droves today.
What it does in effect is hurts the potential for improving products. We reached the high water mark in about 2003. This is refreshing and exciting for me to see this level of enthusiasm into a project that Erik is doing, good for him. Key, Kohs, and any other importer we bring into this discussion is trying to set the bar higher on each project. The rest of the industry has in my opinion become complacent and ok with good enough at Chinese labor pricing.
GOOD WORK ERIK! (Keep it up it looks marvelous!)
Opinion
I am a visual person and like what I see!
The cooling ducts for the traction motors are especially nice; its this extra measure of authenticity that will set these apart from a lot of the market.
It's Euro Model quality in a U.S. Prototype. Marvelous! (Too bad it's so modern...
Sadly for me this is the new market.) In a decade I doubt we will see very many "transition era" models imported anymore. The buyers are the market and they are demanding 1970's-today. I say produce for them guys! This is progress and a new arena for growth in the hobby!Pricing on European brass models would scare most of us out of the room. This China Syndrome we have in U.S. can hurt the market as much as it can create one. Cheap out of the box prebuilt Chinese models in any case 1/64 cars to N scale plastic has rewritten the book on most of the hobby. For the most part it's set a precedent among the lion's share of buyers that a model can be had for $5 even though it would cost at U.S. labor rates over $35. These new buyers are stuck in this Chinese built pricing structure and cannot see out of it. Any said model over $5 is considered a ripoff and anyone arguing with them is considered a heretic. No wonder the hobby is rolling up the sidewalks and turn off the lights in droves today.
What it does in effect is hurts the potential for improving products. We reached the high water mark in about 2003. This is refreshing and exciting for me to see this level of enthusiasm into a project that Erik is doing, good for him. Key, Kohs, and any other importer we bring into this discussion is trying to set the bar higher on each project. The rest of the industry has in my opinion become complacent and ok with good enough at Chinese labor pricing.
GOOD WORK ERIK! (Keep it up it looks marvelous!)
Opinion
Attachments
Images (3)
Originally Posted by SANTIAGOP23:
No doubt these will be top notch, but I think this thread should be tittled MDMW surpasses all SD45 models to date.
AGREED
Erik,Thank you for posting. Definitely agree the work Erik is doing is setting a new bar for O Scale and model trains in general. Let's hope to see these other importers and builders take notice and keep improving on their products despite the challenges with Chinese labor.
Originally Posted by Erik C Lindgren:
What it does in effect is hurts the potential for improving products. We reached the high water mark in about 2003. This is refreshing and exciting for me to see this level of enthusiasm into a project that Erik is doing, good for him. Key, Kohs, and any other importer we bring into this discussion is trying to set the bar higher on each project. The rest of the industry has in my opinion become complacent and ok with good enough at Chinese labor pricing.
GOOD WORK ERIK! (Keep it up it looks marvelous!)
Opinion
GOOD WORK ERIK! (Keep it up it looks marvelous!)
Opinion
So if I call Erik and he quotes me a price, what would stop me from telling you here?
Also, Erik L, I believe those are not photos, but computer generated pictures. Ey are called " renderings" on the MMW website. And I agree - they are spectacular. I do hope he can actually produce them.
Technically it is a "screen capture"....
3D rendering from the Computer generated drawings- at the end a JPEG produced as a photo, capture, image from the 3D model.
What I posted is still a 2D flat image.
The 3D virtual rendering has 4 sides a top and bottom that can have photogrammetry applied surfaces to simulate any surface.
Here is some more reading for you.. Too help with your Nap time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_rendering
3D rendering from the Computer generated drawings- at the end a JPEG produced as a photo, capture, image from the 3D model.
What I posted is still a 2D flat image.
The 3D virtual rendering has 4 sides a top and bottom that can have photogrammetry applied surfaces to simulate any surface.
Here is some more reading for you.. Too help with your Nap time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_rendering
Originally Posted by Erik C Lindgren:
Technically it is a "screen capture"....
3D rendering from the Computer generated drawings- at the end a JPEG produced as a photo, capture, image from the 3D model.
What I posted is still a 2D flat image.
The 3D virtual rendering has 4 sides a top and bottom that can have photogrammetry applied surfaces to simulate any surface.
Here is some more reading for you.. Too help with your Nap time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_rendering
3D rendering from the Computer generated drawings- at the end a JPEG produced as a photo, capture, image from the 3D model.
What I posted is still a 2D flat image.
The 3D virtual rendering has 4 sides a top and bottom that can have photogrammetry applied surfaces to simulate any surface.
Here is some more reading for you.. Too help with your Nap time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_rendering
No matter how you define it it is a rendering not a brass truck,Bob is basically correct.How well the builder creates this truck remains to be seen.JMO
VIRTUAL REALITY!
Just a question from an uninterested party of these planned models.
Why are you guys so hard on MWMW Erik?
Just curious
Why are you guys so hard on MWMW Erik?
Just curious
After reading the comments on the forum this morning about the pricing of Erik's models, I checked with him and he told me that the main reason he has been advised not to put his pricing on his website is because the Koreans look at the importers' websites, see the (necessary) mark-up, and then price their next project higher accordingly, thinking they should get more if the importer can. (This seems to me to be a basic human element at play in inflation).
So in practicality, as has been suggested, keeping the prices off the website actually does tend toward helping keep the prices down. Also, modelers can help their own interests by realizing this and not shooting themselves in the foot by sharing the knowledge they have of the prices all over the place for the importers to find and use for their own purposes.
Any interested modeler can get pricing information by simply emailing Erik.
On a different subject, while the MMW primary focus is what we know as modern, there is a bright spot and that is, SD7's and SD9's are on the 'to-do' list.
Thayne Logan
