I’m not trying to be an MTH fanboy here, but, coming back to the hobby after a few years, I have done a bit of reading. DCS, from what I have read, with it’s two-way communication, is far superior to DCC and Legacy. It would be nice if it became a stand alone company and they would license to other manufacturers like Atlas.
Good news indeed for DCS operators. Taking a page from the ERR playbook, more or less. It seems very odd indeed that this wasn't revealed at the time of the closing announcement.
Regardless, it seems likely there will be significantly more interest in the new Lionel catalog when it comes out in July!
@Carl Peduzzi posted:I’m not trying to be an MTH fanboy here, but, coming back to the hobby after a few years, I have done a bit of reading. DCS, from what I have read, with it’s two-way communication, is far superior to DCC and Legacy. It would be nice if it became a stand alone company and they would license to other manufacturers like Atlas.
Well, there are different products for different people, but there are a lot of folks who don't share your view about the superiority of DCS. That is an interesting point, though, as to whether DCS continues to be a proprietary product, a part of MW's hangup about sharing anything. It's hard to know what the provisions are of the contract with the purchasers, and whether there will be continued restrictions, but it seems it would be very advantageous for them to be able to offer the technology to others.
But to whom? Atlas O, WBB and 3rd Rail are the only other companies still producing new O gauge products other than Lionel, and, except for WBB (which seems content to stay in the traditional market), the others are already married to Lionel and unlikely to switch to a small, limited operation company with an unknown future, to supply their command control systems.
MTH = Menard's Train House? What are the chances that John Menard Jr. , an American entrepreneur and billionaire, could purchase MTH and expand "Train Stuff" at Menards? Graphic would need to be updated to include locomotives!
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@breezinup posted:Good news indeed for DCS operators. Taking a page from the ERR playbook, more or less. It seems very odd indeed that this wasn't revealed at the time of the closing announcement.
Regardless, it seems likely there will be significantly more interest in the new Lionel catalog when it comes out in July!
They probably forgot how much OGRR forum loves a good conspiracy with all the "experts" who hang out here.
Also, It is obvious that many (not you) people did not fully read thru the official announcement, based on their replies. Par for the course here 
@MTH RD posted:Hey guys, DCS and PS3 aren't going away anytime soon. In fact, quite the opposite....
Very interesting. When the brouhaha came up about the disappearing remote and the push for the app, I asked, what about developing a higher priced DCS remote under the Premier label. With the cost for some of these engines, a $500-600 remote is not that out of the question.
Now I think I understand why this was so loudly ignored. I hope new things for DCS will be a remote as part of the process. We will see.
Now I possibly understand Jason Wenzel's timing leaving service. He is pretty young.
@H1000 posted:I wouldn't worry too much about hording DCS parts like covid-19 tiolet paper just yet.
Below is a copy of a news annoucment on the MTH Website:https://mthtrains.com/news/659
DCS/Proto-Sound Lives On
June 9, 2020 - With the scheduled closing of M.T.H. Electric Trains next year, support for the DCS Digital Command System and the Proto-Sound 3.0 onboard locomotive systems will continue through a new independent company headed up by current M.T.H. staff once direct M.T.H. support for the systems concludes on June 1, 2021.
The new tech company will continue to manufacture and provide support including any necessary software updates to the DCS hardware or DCS WiFi App. In fact, new and exciting product ideas are currently under development.
The DCS System controls any Proto-Sound 2.0 and later equipped locomotives and first debuted 18 years ago. It has been an integral part of the M.T.H. product line family since its inception and its continuation beyond the closing of M.T.H. is an important part of the transition envisioned by retiring M.T.H. president Mike Wolf.
As the retirement transition process moves forward, more details about the new company's creation and ongoing development of M.T.H.'s technology packages will be announced. Stay tuned.
If this works they would be wise to have the system be able to control both DCS and DCC. They would have a much larger audience (in HO, N, & G) that way. The PS3 boards are already DCC compatible. Make the system able to control DCC as well (it's open source) and they might be able to stay afloat for awhile. Us 3 rail O guys are the majority of the DCS users (I don't know any local HO guys who use it, they're all DCC) so having the system be able to control DCC decoders out of the box would be a huge advantage for them.
I can't believe I am actually reading and seeing this. MTH was my childhood as it's my #1 model train brand and was my first train manufacturer i've ever bought from. I can see one of the reasons primarily for the demise of MTH was due to the coronavirus which originated from china where most of MTH's tooling comes from. The hobby will take a completely different route with the demise of a well-beloved model train manufacturer from a well-beloved man.
https://www.bizjournals.com/ba...-sells-for-14-5.html
Building sold for 14.5 mil. Was on the market since 2017.
@MTH RD posted:Hey guys, DCS and PS3 aren't going away anytime soon. In fact, quite the opposite....
I can't even get boards now from MTH parts, so the statement that DCS isn't going away kinda' flies in the face of reality, at least for me! Stuff is stacking up with no parts to repair it, and MTH keeps shipping everything but the boards that are listed as "available". Sorry I don't share your optimism, but I'm kinda' results based.
Lot of angst in this thread. I know I slept pretty well last night.
@jimcap posted:So, I stopped by the local hobby shop which was The Hobby Shop in Matawan NJ. When I walked in, I saw the train layout and collection right there by the front door. Having fond memories of my dad running his trains I immediately went over to take a look. It was like I was a kid again, so much cool stuff. Then my eyes fell on one particular engine, a beautiful black and silver Railking Imperial Empire State Express. I had to have it, a few weeks later I purchased the engine plus the passenger car set. I then pulled out my father's old Lionel set (he had pass 9 years earlier.) set up the tracks, transformer, and I ran both my dad's engine and the ESE around the Christmas tree. When my mom stopped by for Christmas, she smiled with some tears in her eyes, happy to see my dad' s train run again and his love for trains being passed on to me.
The first time I met Mike Wolf was in that very same hobby shop that I had purchase the ESE engine from. It was around the that PS3 was being released, We had a nice discussion, I asked him what was his favorite train and without missing a beat, he said the Empire State Express, I then told him the story of how that was the engine that got me back into the hobby and it made him smile . So, I want to thank Mike for everything he's done for This hobby and again for distilling the love for the hobby back into me. I wish you all the luck Mike, but you're gonna be missed.
I have very fond memories at the Aberdeen Hobby Shop. That was my LHS for many years. I met Mike there in 2003-ish when he was showing off the new Premier GG-1s. Mike signed a MTH hat for me, which I still have to this day. I miss the era when Marvin and Arlene were running the store. It's not the same without them.
I don't know if you knew John, the repair and upgrade specialist for them. He left after Arlene sold the business and now has a small hobby shop out of his place in Hazlet, NJ.
I'm very happy for Mike, but anxious for the hobby.
Just a thought though, from someone who is not well versed in electronics. Do you think that Lionel may go after DCS for the programming and codes? They could then integrate this into Legacy (Super Legacy?), making it the system for O gauge as it could run TMCC, DCS, and Legacy. It would help entice DCS users to be more likely to buy Lionel, as their old MTH trains would run with it. They could then license DCS to Atlas, so Atlas has a modern system (more than TMCC) that can run with Lionel items.
Hey, a guy can dream, can't he?
This is a bad thing, and that's from a guy who is past his "buying years" and who uses only TMCC-based command systems. MTH made great products, consistently better than most others on balance, and kept Lionel on its creaky old toes, mostly.
I hope his employees (as he mentioned) buy him out and switch to TMCC-based command control. That probably will not happen. I thought somebody might buy Weaver's operation. Nope. The demographics of this 3RO industry are not impossible, but they are not bright and shiny, either.
"...switch to TMCC-based command control" - this because there have been a few - and have continued to be - MTH catalogue offerings that made me consider a purchase, even lately, but then I said, as usual, "...well, still DCS/PS3, and I don't run the ones for that system that I already have, so....no". This would also finally give us the universal command system that 3RO almost has.
As a hobbyist, though, a 3RO world without Mike Wolf is a little scary.
DCS continues on! All my Power units are MTH 2 & 3. 
Now about some freight car sounds? 
@H1000 posted:The new tech company will continue to manufacture and provide support including any necessary software updates to the DCS hardware or DCS WiFi App. In fact, new and exciting product ideas are currently under development.
The DCS System controls any Proto-Sound 2.0 and later equipped locomotives and first debuted 18 years ago. It has been an integral part of the M.T.H. product line family since its inception and its continuation beyond the closing of M.T.H. is an important part of the transition envisioned by retiring M.T.H. president Mike Wolf.
As the retirement transition process moves forward, more details about the new company's creation and ongoing development of M.T.H.'s technology packages will be announced. Stay tuned.
So did the new company say if they will still be making boards and upgrade kits? Or just doing repairs to existing stuff?
We're doomed!! 
No doubt Lionel is doing a happy dance in the boardroom.
So when my MTH engines break, they become shelf queens. 
@Oscale_Trains_Lover_ posted:So did the new company say if they will still be making boards and replacement parts?
"The new tech company will continue to manufacture and provide support including any necessary software updates to the DCS hardware or DCS WiFi App."
That's how I interpret it.
@rrman posted:We're doomed!!
No doubt Lionel is doing a happy dance in the boardroom.
So when my MTH engines break, they become shelf queens.
Not necessarily. Unless Lionel & 3rd rail pulls the plug on ERR, you could convert. (At this time)
I always knew that Mike was a smart guy. There is more to life than toy trains. He has been a dynamic force in the industry for a very long time. I remember him back in the Yellow Hall at York selling Williams tinplate at his booth next to Walter Matuch when Walter and Susie were selling tee shirts. I have Mike's first Railking steam engine. It was always fun dealing with him, Midge, Andy, Rich and the rest of the gang. Mike has a passion for trains which is unequaled in the industry. I too am hoping that someone will purchase the company and continue the product line. All the best Mike!!
Congrats Mike! Hopefully the company will survive somehow even if broken up into new smaller companies. After all, more competition is a good thing and MTH like them or hate them, gave the consumer more choices and forced Lionel to up their game. For that, I will be forever grateful.
So how does this new DCS company relate, if at all, to the current MTH employees who are going to be making and selling parts into the future, mentioned in some post somewhere or the other?
Well that news about the dcs system support is certainly welcome. And that announcement is minty fresh. It wasn't there a couple hours ago!
I think the last person that had Mike's passion and drive with toy trains was J.L Cowen during his tenure with Lionel back in the day. Mike definatly got big "L" off its duff to up their game. He drove the industry just as Josh did in the Prewar and Postwar eras. I wish him many good years in retirement to enjoy whatever pastimes he enjoys, both trains and otherwise. Cheers. AD
End of the hobby? The Death of 3-rail?
Please, people, get a grip.
I have been in the rain hobby for 56 years, more or less, and I have never used an MTH item. (Last train piece I bought did begin with an M: it was Marx.) I am pretty sure that I can enjoy trains for the rest of my years without one.
MTH isn't the hobby. WE are the hobby. And there are literally tons and tons of trains out there to acquire, many still new. There are other manufacturers still making 3-rail trains.
May Mike be blessed, but the hobby will survive without him as it was born without him.
@breezinup posted:Well, there are different products for different people, but there are a lot of folks who don't share your view about the superiority of DCS. That is an interesting point, though, as to whether DCS continues to be a proprietary product, a part of MW's hangup about sharing anything. It's hard to know what the provisions are of the contract with the purchasers, and whether there will be continued restrictions, but it seems it would be very advantageous for them to be able to offer the technology to others.
But to whom? Atlas O, WBB and 3rd Rail are the only other companies still producing new O gauge products other than Lionel, and, except for WBB (which seems content to stay in the traditional market), the others are already married to Lionel and unlikely to switch to a small, limited operation company with an unknown future, to supply their command control systems.
Fair statements. As most of my reading has been MTH centered, tHess are the key points I have rEast. It is always good to have other viewpoints. Thank you.
As Lou1985 has mentioned, what if the industry finally consolidated control systems and made a combo based on DCS and Legacy. It would be intriguing.
As I am a spectator in this event just like almost everyone else, it will be interesting to see what the future holds. Too many of us have investments we don’t want to give up. Fear and uncertainty causes us to formulate all kinds of opinions. We can only hope to outcome is one that will help us enjoy this hobby for many years to come.
@Carl Peduzzi posted:
As Lou1985 has mentioned, what if the industry finally consolidated control systems and made a combo based on DCS and Legacy. It would be intriguing.
DCS can already control TMCC/Legacy with an adapter cable. My suggestion was to have DCC control built into the TIU. That way the system can control both DCS and DCC and therefore would be appealing to those in other scales, who have standardized on DCC. That would be a way to keep the new company afloat and increase sales outside of 3 rail O.
I work in Facilities Management at a major university in New York. Part of my time is spent dealing with building management systems that control HVAC, lighting, security, etc.
Several years ago, the controls industry realized that they needed standardization if they were going to survive.
Hello BAC-NET. The platform allows all mfr's equipment to be controlled by any system out there that's BAC-net compatible.
My point is that a universal control system that works across all platforms is long overdue in model trains. This could be the opportunity for an enterprising engineer to develop that system.......
Thoughts?
@NS1975 posted:I wonder what is going to happen to their mobile app once the company closes. I don't see how it could continue to work properly or at all. I had the Time Warner security system and once they folded my app for the security system almost immediately disappeared and my equipment stopped working due to no updates.
Good point NS1975
I'd be in for a legacy style remote that would control both legacy trains and MTH stuff in command mode. If you threw in DCC, great if not I could care less.
@RSJB18 posted:I work in Facilities Management at a major university in New York. Part of my time is spent dealing with building management systems that control HVAC, lighting, security, etc.
Several years ago, the controls industry realized that they needed standardization if they were going to survive.Hello BAC-NET. The platform allows all mfr's equipment to be controlled by any system out there that's BAC-net compatible.
My point is that a universal control system that works across all platforms is long overdue in model trains. This could be the opportunity for an enterprising engineer to develop that system.......
Thoughts?
Yes, it already exists and is called the DCC protocol. Every other scale/gauge uses this including 2 Rail O.
Thanks for the good news, Dave.
Regards, Bob
@breezinup posted:... Will there be another Richard Kughn to ride to the rescue? Doubtful. There may be something that could happen now that the word's out, but even so it would be very surprising if MTH would continue in anything like it's present form...
My guess / speculation is that everyone who might be a potential "Richard Kughn" has already been spoken with, privately.
And remember that Kughn bought a company which owned the most recognizable name in the world of toys, which evoked an emotional reaction for millions of people. As great as the company might be, how many people outside of trains have heard of MTH?
I'm not sure that I understand how the announcement enhances the value of what he could sell MTH for. Seems like more behind-the-scenes work could have been done. Would be interesting to know the thought process behind it.
@TexasSP posted:Yes, it already exists and is called the DCC protocol. Every other scale/gauge uses this including 2 Rail O.
True, but DCC is a 40 year old technology that is anything but user friendly.
People would also be wise to re-think any further purchases of MTH track, especially their O gauge offerings. What company is going to pick up and support the manufacture of a full line of plastic-bed O gauge track?
Mike probably would not have happened except for Jerry Williams who revitalized the train industry. Mike took it to the next level. I have been amazed that both Lionel and MTH have been able to survive given the aging of the Boomers. I bought Mike's Dash 8-40 but generally have bought Lionel, K Line, Williams over the years. I do have his Dreyfuss Hudson.
Mike,
Best of luck on your well-earned retirement.
Thank you for your contributions to our hobby - especially the PRR electrics!!!
Jim
@jonnyspeed posted:True, but DCC is a 40 year old technology that is anything but user friendly.
Hardly an accurate statement. DCC is a standard protocol. Modern versions do everything DCS and Legacy does and then some. The interfaces have also become very user friendly and you can mix and match.
The first systems were also about 30 years ago not 40.
It's obvious you have no current DCC experience. Talk to the 2 rail guys and they can show you how far DCC has come. Also the base of Legacy which is TMCC is almost 30 years old as well.
@Lou1985 posted:DCS can already control TMCC/Legacy with an adapter cable.
Let's not overstate the case. You did forget that you also need the TMCC/Legacy command system to connect to the other end of that cable! All DCS does is create the TMCC/Legacy commands to send over to the Lionel command system. Other PC based applications also do the same thing, think e-Train.
