Here is the AF 302 Reading Atlantic running in the garden, chased by the camera:
Regards
Fred
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That is so cool. I love seeing the trains run outside.
Jim McC
Ont Sou posted:That is so cool. I love seeing the trains run outside.
Jim McC
Ditto !
Looks great and sounds cool.
Very cool! I'd like to hear more about how you built this, what kind of multi-gauge tracks you used, the design & construction of your sub-roadbed/benchwork, etc.
Bill in FtL
Bill,
Here is some extra information on my multi gauge track; hope this is of interest:
Years ago, when I moved into my current house, I ran Gauge 1 live steam trains so made sure the new house had a back garden waiting for a Gauge 1 track. A friend designed a layout construction. I planned to have a double track oval. Total track length is 30 meter per track (60 meter total). I use Tenmille track (nickel silver bullhead rail) which is floating on ballast in a metal gutter. The gutter is resting on a metal construction with metal poles such that track is at about 75 centimeters from the ground. The metal construction and gutter was being built by a construction workshop; they took care of galvanizing the substructure which shows after 25 years still no rust. On the inside of the track oval is a brick footpath thus making chasing trains possible (which is sometimes needed with live steam). The track is wired for electrical running (2-rail), so Märklin Gauge 1 and LGB can also run on the track. Four bus wires, one for each of the two rails of the two tracks, run through the ballast, and to each fishplate a wire is soldered which is clipped on to a bus wire.
I collect and run some other gauges like H0, 00, S and 0. I started to think about adding a gauge 0 track to my garden railway. At first I made plans to add a separate parallel track between my two gauge 1 tracks but found that there just wasn’t enough room. So I thought of adding an extra rail to one of my tracks, making a dual gauge 1/0 track. Since I also have some gauge 0 3-rail trains I also added yet another rail as third rail for 0 gauge. So I drilled small holes in all sleepers and added 2400 chairs and 60 meter of rail to the inner loop of my layout. The good thing of the inner loop is that it has no turnouts. For the gauge 0 electrical connection I connected to the same bus wires, making it impossible to run gauge 0 and gauge 1 at the same time on the same track, which is quite realistic.
I have also some older tinplate 3-rail electric Gauge 1 locomotives which I tried to run using one of the 0 Gauge rails as center rail by fiddling with the pick-ups of these locomotives. This did not really go well. I do have some S Gauge trains (most of it American Flyer) and then the idea came to kill 2 birds with one stone by adding a middle rail to my outer loop positioned such that S Gauge and Gauge 1 3-rail electric could be run (not at the same time, of course). There was still one point/turn-out in the outer loop but that was not operational anymore and I started by removing that one. Then I added another 30 meter of nickel silver bullhead rail and some 1200 chairs. I looked at the NEM and NMRA standards and kept the gauge to (approximately) 22.5 mm. During the construction I checked with an American Flyer bogie whether the gauge was right and when the track was finished I pushed some cars around to further check. I found that German S gauge made by BUB, Nurnberg in the fifties did not fit. I looked around the internet and found somewhere a German forum post mentioning that BUB S is 24 mm since BUB made an error when translating from Inches.
This picture shows the track from above, S gauge are the lower 2-rail:
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Thanks for the added info. It sounds like it was a major project, but from the video, I'd say it was well worth it! Floating the track in actual rock ballast is quite impressive, as well as prototypical. Thanks again for the explanation.
Bill in FtL
Fred,
I posted an intro thread here:
https://ogrforum.com/t...05#62669288879015405
Do you have any issues running O or S outside? Do you do anything special? i.e. hi rail and larger wheels/flanges?
What do you do with the locos and running stock when not running (especially in cosideration of sun/uv)?
What about accessories? do you remote control switches/turnouts? or manual? do you change buildings to match the scale of trains you run? or justgo with it? building scale is probably not a big deal to me - i want to stick with one scale.
Do you fine one (O or S) more amenable to outdoors use than the other?
Appreciate any info/replies!
Thx.
Helmut
Helmut,
Herewith some extra information and answers to your question based on my experience. As mentioned above I started my garden track for gauge 1 live steam, so most of the decisions on the layout were made for that purpose. I might have made other decisions when I was making an 0 gauge or S gauge railway from the start. One of these decisions is the height of the layout and the accessibility. For running live steam (when not controlling it with RC) it is handy to have an easy reach to your locomotive (and it is easy for my back now I am getting older). Further I choose for Tenmille bullhead 1 Gauge nickel silver rail, this rail and special plastic sleepers are designed to be used outside. Most 0 and S gauge track might not be suitable for the garden. It might be good to consider doing a larger gauge (1 gauge or G scale) in the garden.
Another very important thing is the electricity; track laid in the garden will have to be cleaned before a running session (assuming you do not run clockwork or live steam); not only removing leaves etc. but cleaning the rail top; I use an LGB cleaning block for this. This takes some time before each running session. The conductivity of rail connectors/fishplates will not be good enough outside (after a few months), so I have soldered a wire to every rail. Further DCC seems to be more prone to malfunction outside, but it can be used.
Of course it is nice to run trains outside, but only when weather allows! And in general there is more room outside and you can have a larger layout with wider curves (my curves have a diameter of 6 meter).
Do you have any issues running O or S outside? Do you do anything special? i.e. hi rail and larger wheels/flanges?
I have run all type of 0 gauge trains outside (scale and 3-rail and tinplate) and my track (www.tenmille.com bullhead rail) allows for all (see my youtube channel). Until now I have only run American Flyer S gauge with large flanges outside (I added the S gauge track just recently); I assume that S Scale equipment might be more demanding on the leveling of the track. Further 3-rail 0 gauge never seems to give any conductivity problems.
What do you do with the locos and running stock when not running (especially in consideration of sun/uv)?
All rolling stock and my controller cabinet (see picture) are taken inside after a running session; I assume the sun/uv is not a problem during the couple of hours of a running session. Be aware that wind might be a problem; I have had light plastic 0 gauge boxcars blown from the track by the wind.
What about accessories? do you remote control switches/turnouts? or manual? do you change buildings to match the scale of trains you run? or justgo with it? building scale is probably not a big deal to me - i want to stick with one scale.
I do not have any switches/turnouts (I removed these when I went multi-gauge). When I still had them I controlled these manual. I do not have buildings (except for one large gauge 1 water tower). Buildings should of course either be weather resistant (for 1 gauge and G scale lots of these are available) or be taken inside after a running session.
Do you find one (O or S) more amenable to outdoors use than the other?
My experience with S Gauge is not yet that large; 0 gauge can be run I know and is done by others too (sometimes having an indoor layout with a loop going through the garden like this: https://www.youtube.com/user/1royjames). I do not know of any other S gauge garden layout, but it might be interesting to have a try. Further S Gauge trains are of course smaller and might look a bit “lost“ in a large garden; making a video for instance I find more difficult.
Appreciate any info/replies!
Hope this information helps; more questions are of course welcome. And more information can be found on the internet and also on this forum when using "garden railway" in a search.
Regards
Fred
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Fred,
Thank you very much for the replies. If you do not mind I do have more questions or things I have considered to which feedback would be greatly welcomed.
If you were starting over and deciding between O and S, what height would you put the layout at?
I started with wanting Gauge 1, but I find the rolling stock just plain too large. I do not believe my yard is suited for such a large turn radius layout either. It would take up too much of the yard and my wife would not be too pleased, and I am not really wanting to give over the entire back yard to the layout either.
Yes, I am concerned about UV and the track. I have found both O and S track that is suitable for outdoors use. I will most likely go nickel-silver or aluminum (if that is to be found). Atlas says their HO and 2 rail O track can be used outdoors. American Models believes their S track is suitable for outdoors, I am trying to confirm. There are probably others as well, still searching.
Hmm, should I reconsider On30? or is that asking for too much frustration?
Regarding track power, I intend to purchase already made for or convert everything to battery power and remote control via wireless. I think that might remove the majority of track power and signaling issues related to outdoor use. Thoughts?
One of my main reasons for wanting an outdoor layout is the larger curves and eventually larger layout with more capability to simulate real operations.
Another person stated that wind might blow rolling stock off of the track when I was considering HO gauge and On30. Would weighting the cars help with that? And if too windy I would not be outside anyway.
I will have to see if I can find a cheap S scale car and the same with O and just ptu them outside to see how they look. One side goal of this whole thing, and wanting to do S scale is I could use it indoors later if I want as well.
I have been thinking I want remote control of swithces/turnout, but maybe I do not if I am simulating older operations - they all had to be manually thrown anyway, right? Maybe just do accessories when/if I get there?
Everything you shared is quite useful. If you do not mind, please keep it coming. I hope others find this information useful as well.
Thx.
Helmut
Helmut,
Here some answers and thoughts on your thoughts and questions.
If you were starting over and deciding between O and S, what height would you put the layout at?
If I would do it now I would put it at the same height; if I were younger I would build at a lower height (say 25 cm) such that it blends more in with the garden (which is natural free scenery).
I started with wanting Gauge 1, but I find the rolling stock just plain too large. I do not believe my yard is suited for such a large turn radius layout either. It would take up too much of the yard and my wife would not be too pleased, and I am not really wanting to give over the entire back yard to the layout either.
Did you consider British or European Gauge 1? The rolling stock of these are much smaller.
Yes, I am concerned about UV and the track. I have found both O and S track that is suitable for outdoors use. I will most likely go nickel-silver or aluminum (if that is to be found). Atlas says their HO and 2 rail O track can be used outdoors. American Models believes their S track is suitable for outdoors, I am trying to confirm. There are probably others as well, still searching.
Aluminem rail is generally not advised for miniature railway because of wear (but I do not think it would be a problem for an 0 or S gauge garden railway).
Hmm, should I reconsider On30? or is that asking for too much frustration?
I do not know much about narrow gauge modelling; but H0 size track in the garden? I would not try this. Anyway, a choice for narrow or standard gauge should be made first in my opinion.
Regarding track power, I intend to purchase already made for or convert everything to battery power and remote control via wireless. I think that might remove the majority of track power and signaling issues related to outdoor use. Thoughts?
I agree completely that it makes life easier on the power supply and track conductivity area. I now that in 1 gauge battery power and RC is used and thus available. I do not know whether it is available for 0 gauge (or S gauge?), so then you would have to convert locomotives yourself. Of course visiting locomotives could have a problem (if they are normal 2-rail).
One of my main reasons for wanting an outdoor layout is the larger curves and eventually larger layout with more capability to simulate real operations.
Most outdoor layouts are used just for running trains (watching trains go by with a coffee (or a beer (or wine)) at hand sitting in a garden chair in the sun (or shadow)), but there is no reason why you should not simulate real operations.
Another person stated that wind might blow rolling stock off of the track when I was considering HO gauge and On30. Would weighting the cars help with that? And if too windy I would not be outside anyway.
Of course extra weight in the cars will help (but will drain your batteries sooner). Real story: Years ago I placed a train of 0 gauge RivaRossi and Roco/Atlas plastic American cars on the track and coupled them all together and went inside the house to get my MTH BigBoy from the glass case. When I came outside again I thought I was getting insane, since I saw no train any more. Then I noticed all cars on the ground, just blown off the track (and since they were coupled they all went). Not much damage done (plastic glue did the job), but it was surely not very bad weather (it was sunny but windy).
I will have to see if I can find a cheap S scale car and the same with O and just ptu them outside to see how they look. One side goal of this whole thing, and wanting to do S scale is I could use it indoors later if I want as well.
Sounds OK
I have been thinking I want remote control of switches/turnout, but maybe I do not if I am simulating older operations - they all had to be manually thrown anyway, right? Maybe just do accessories when/if I get there?
Starting with manual would be good, I suppose.
Regards
Fred
Thx Fred. Good food for thought. I guess that if I decide narrow gauge I am pretty much out of luck other than 1:20.3/1:24. I have not yet found anything on 'proper' narrow gauge equipment running on O or S gauge.
Are there O or S gauge steam locos that might have run in the manner or similar to this article:
http://www.freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=2873
I.e. a regional railroad servicing an 'industry' and region?
Thank you again.
Helmut
Fred,
Thanks for posting all this info on your layout. You answered several questions I had after watching your videos. I have been watching your videos for several years and would like to build a similar layout myself in with O track.
Phil,
are you really going to build outside?
hlfritz posted:Are there O or S gauge steam locos that might have run in the manner or similar to this article:
http://www.largescalecentral.c...in-the-life..........
I.e. a regional railroad servicing an 'industry' and region?
Thank you again.
Helmut
Helmut,
The link does not work (well, not over here in Netherlands).
Regards
Fred
Fred,
it does not seem to be a regional problem, link is down for me too. i messed it up while transcribing (i.e. cut and paste error!), sorry!
i changed it above to what seems to be the same post on freerails.com and put it here as well.
http://www.freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=2873
reading that is what really got me going on setting up a model railroad and I would say that is my goal.
Helmut
Helmut,
I could now see what you mean; this is a complete other way of garden railroading, which looks good but different, so I cannot further comment on it.
Regards
Fred
As an aside from all my other questions: in relation to S scale how is AF perceived/accepted? Since this thread started with American Flyer in the garden, it might be an alternative for me. The newer AF stuff seems to be pretty detailed and competitive with other S scale productions, but that is likely my own perception being new to the hobby. It may well be that in a year or so I would hold AF in a lower regard.
Fred,
yes it does seem a bit different, hence some of my goals of a regional/industry/coop railroad and a few meta-items (if you will) layered on top of 'just' a layout to make things more interesting.
We (family) went to the San Diego Model Railroad museum yesterday and they have nothing at all related to that article/post. While l-o-n-g trains pulling up/over/through the Tehachapi loop is impressive, to me it would seem to get boring. The building of the layout might be interesting, but after running the same thing over and over I would imagine I would want to scrap it and start over with another layout!
