@rplst8 posted:John,
No dusting needed. You can use an SFC1 or SFC2 (that went into an engine with whistle steam) to add it to any engine. It just listens for the whistle signal on the serial data line as far as I can tell. It works on the CAB-1L when *NOT* in quilling whistle mode too. I haven't tested this specifically, but I think it could be used to add whistle steam to TMCC locomotives too.
They don't recognize the TMCC 8-bit serial data, just the 9-bit Legacy serial data.
@Darrell posted:When all my engines die, I will convert them to DCC, it works for the 2-rail crowd.
@Yellowstone Special posted:Notch 6 historically described what has been a major flaw with O gauge trains, the manufacturers’ inability to come up with a standardized control system, or even compatible control systems that would last.
Feet has stated the solution with HO. A standardized NMRA approved control system (DC/DCC) that’s remained constant and has worked for years, regardless of the manufacturer.
And as feet stated, it’s too bad the O community didn’t take a page out of the HO community’s book. If it had, this O gauge mess wouldn’t be happening.
Everyone knows DCC is an option. However, it's pretty difficult to run both TMCC/Legacy and DCC on the same layout (AFAIK) and especially so if DCS is in use as well.
What this means is you might be waiting a while until you can run all of your engines again.
Not to mention, converting your engines to DCC will require a new control system on your layout... yet another expense that folks probably aren't going to be happy about.
Not to put too fine a point on it, you are talking about thousands of dollars of outlay to upgrade a fleet of locomotives for what could have been a few $40-100 parts to fix them.
@bigkid posted:This may have been better for another thread, but since it is relevant to the discussion, might be better here. If let's say Lionel with older legacy boards, etc, opened it up to a third party vendor at little or no licensing charge (I know, fat chance), allowed them to use the source code encoded in the ASICS, etc, would it be economically practical for a third party firm to do this? I would think the hard part would be getting the ASICS made for a reasonable price given the likely size of the runs (in interesting other thought, could a raspberry pi or arduino single board computer, assuming you have the functional source for the Lionel boards, be used instead of an ASIC, port the functional code to run there (they generally use C++)? I am aiming this at guys like GRJ or other engineering types who have done work like this (I certainly have no clue of the real costs).
Any such effort will almost surely be done from scratch, no way Lionel is going to release any code. Designing the DCDS or R2LC from scratch will be a significant effort. I suspect just getting licensing would be a large hurdle. The sound boards would be a real killer to build from scratch, you'd need all the sounds that Lionel has gathered over the years.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I was under the impression that a special version of the C04 code was for aquarium cars, the C06 was for the early GG-1 engines.
From a Mike Reagan post some time back...
(There is a special C04 out there that is specifically programmed for aquarium cars, giraffe cars, etc. Has to do with the electroluminescent panel in these cars, must request from Lionel as a special order piece)
I think the "special order" ship has probably sailed.
Have you tried a C08 in that car. If there's a missing function, it may be possible to sky-wire it.
This is the board I had in my cart.. It does not give a CO code I was wrong
I really have no clue what the board does for the electroluminescent panel but I don't think the panels burn out so it was a stab in the dark. If anyone has knowledge about it I would love to get the lights back on. I replaced the drive motor and everything works but the light. It has music with Neil Young on guitar too. 
@Yellowstone Special posted:And as feet stated, it’s too bad the O community didn’t take a page out of the HO community’s book. If it had, this O gauge mess wouldn’t be happening.
What mess?
This is simply a speed bump on the road to the future. Someone WILL pick up the dropped ball with any luck. It's happened many times before over the years with mechanical parts. It will happen with electronics too.
We're not out of options (yet). The nuclear one, DCC, is not all that's left (yet). Thank goodness.
However this situation better be worked out soon. The longer it takes, the quicker our beloved collections will turn into piles of expensive junk.
Let's hope that the old saying applies:
"In the end it will all work out. If it hasn't worked out then it's not yet the end".
Mike
@rplst8 posted:Not to put too fine a point on it, you are talking about thousands of dollars of outlay to upgrade a fleet of locomotives for what could have been a few $40-100 parts to fix them.
Yep, so I have two or three engines that need parts to restore to running condition. The solution presented is to convert all my 150 engines to DCC, buy DCC equipment, learn to use it, and of course, figure out how to deal with multiple power districts, sounds like a lot of DCC boosters! I guess I forget about all my command controlled stuff like switches, turntable, accessories, etc.
Might as well just drop out of the hobby, I don't have $75K-100K and years of time for the conversion effort to achieve this result!
I really wish we could have practical suggestions for today's 3-rail control systems, not pie in the sky solutions that are anything but practical! 
@iguanaman3 posted:This is the board I had in my cart.. It does not give a CO code I was wrong
R2LC / RADIO RECEIVER (AQUA CODE) - 691R2LCCA1
I really have no clue what the board does for the electroluminescent panel but I don't think the panels burn out so it was a stab in the dark. If anyone has knowledge about it I would love to get the lights back on. I replaced the drive motor and everything works but the light. It has music with Neil Young on guitar too.
I think that failing to locate that part, the solution will be to reverse engineer the electronics and figure out how to like the EL panels. I can't find any wiring diagrams or other details about the innards.
@iguanaman3 posted:I really have no clue what the board does for the electroluminescent panel but I don't think the panels burn out so it was a stab in the dark.
The EL panel has to have a power inverter that supplies a high frequency AC voltage, in the 90-150 volt range, clearly there will be an oscillator module that does this deed. Panels do eventually burn out, but they're usually good for a few thousand hours of operation. I'd find the oscillator module and try to determine if it's operational.
@rplst8 posted:Everyone knows DCC is an option. However, it's pretty difficult to run both TMCC/Legacy and DCC on the same layout (AFAIK) and especially so if DCS is in use as well.
What this means is you might be waiting a while until you can run all of your engines again.
Not to mention, converting your engines to DCC will require a new control system on your layout... yet another expense that folks probably aren't going to be happy about.
Not to put too fine a point on it, you are talking about thousands of dollars of outlay to upgrade a fleet of locomotives for what could have been a few $40-100 parts to fix them.
Blunami DCC will coexist with TMCC and Legacy. The signal does not use the rails so no interference. No need to convert your whole fleet.
What seems to be lost here is no one knows except Lionel if the boards are now in a landfill. Many seem to assume they are already lost.
I would suggest sitting tight until the announcement is made as their whereabouts.
Pete
@Norton as a DCC novice, how does one change or upload sound sets to the Blunami? I ask because they seem only to have a half dozen choices on a dropdown on their site.
Thats fine John. Do whatever you wish. My point was that DCC is an option if TMCC and DCS is no longer available and will work with both.
Andrew, I am waiting for their 4 amp version to try it out. From the demo videos there are far more than half a dozen sound sets you can select from. Search OGR for the numerous threads already posted on using Blunami.
Pete
@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:What mess?
This is simply a speed bump on the road to the future. Someone WILL pick up the dropped ball with any luck. It's happened many times before over the years with mechanical parts. It will happen with electronics too.
We're not out of options (yet). The nuclear one, DCC, is not all that's left (yet). Thank goodness.
However this situation better be worked out soon. The longer it takes, the quicker our beloved collections will turn into piles of expensive junk.
Let's hope that the old saying applies:
"In the end it will all work out. If it hasn't worked out then it's not yet the end".
Mike
The mess that the O scale community is in due to no standardized control system(s). That's what mess. After advancing from conventional control, the 2 main O scale manufacturers, Lionel and MTH, each came up with there own systems, not compatible with each other. MTH with its PS1, PS2, and PS3 and Lionel with its TMCC, Lionchief and LC+, LC2+, etc., then Legacy. You don't find this situation in other scales, only O.
So there's at lease 6 different control systems from two different O scale manufacturers over the years. HO went basically from DC to DCC, and all manufacturers' systems are compatible. Too bad O scale couldn't have come up with something similar.
So, THAT mess. Capice?
And I think this abandonment of older TMCC and Legacy boards is more than a mere “speed bump in the road to the future." Again, suppose Lionel decides to do this with older command control boards every 10 years or so? Some future.
@Yellowstone Special posted:The mess that the O scale community is in due to no standardized control system(s). That's what mess. After advancing from conventional control, the 2 main O scale manufacturers, Lionel and MTH, each came up with there own systems, not compatible with each other. MTH with its PS1, PS2, and PS3 and Lionel with its TMCC, Lionchief and LC+, LC2+, etc., then Legacy. You don't find this situation in other scales, only O.
So there's at lease 6 different control systems from two different O scale manufacturers over the years. HO went basically from DC to DCC, and all manufacturers' systems are compatible. Too bad O scale couldn't have come up with something similar.
So, THAT mess. Capice?
And I think this abandonment of older TMCC and Legacy boards is more than a mere "bump in the road to the future." Again, suppose Lionel decides to to this with older command control boards every 10 years or so? Some future.
Walk away.
They're only trains and it's only money.
Mike
Geez Mike, why do I even bother to respond to your posts? 🤔
Here the real bottom line. At least in my thoughts. I bought a basement full of engines overflowing into closets - post war - TMCC and legacy. I went through the fix it yourself from Mexico period. The fix it yourself from China period.
One has to start rethinking purchases considering quality and design issues…..now the loss of parts for a generation of engines….Throw price increases into the mix. It really time to stop and smell the roses…..for me at least. O scale just officially past away. Everything, is going to go in a massive sale….
I will keep a few pieces…..the same amount that made me happy when I was younger…..3 engines….some rolling stock - all post war.
A other 5 to 10 thousand staying in my pocket a year.
@Norton posted:Thats fine John. Do whatever you wish. My point was that DCC is an option if TMCC and DCS is no longer available and will work with both.
Andrew, I am waiting for their 4 amp version to try it out. From the demo videos there are far more than half a dozen sound sets you can select from. Search OGR for the numerous threads already posted on using Blunami.
Pete
Yes it is a option… But, I might be able to dissemble my engines and sell them off in parts…..might make some money…off to another gauge is the best route.
@Steims posted:Lionel knows these boards are worth list price at this point and couldn’t bear to see them sold at 50% off. However, with this new crappy ordering/inventory/billing system they rolled out recently there was no way to prevent it. In comes the idea to zero out the inventory and then reset back after the sale. Instead of fessing up to this (and hear lots of complaining) they will report they heard from the customers and brought the boards back by popular demand. Just watch!
It’s plausible considering the timing.
If they wanted to force us into buying all new they would dump ALL the old parts, not just the boards.
I wouldn't bet on that.
@shawn posted:Yes it is a option… But, I might be able to dissemble my engines and sell them off in parts…..might make some money…off to another gauge is the best route.
off to another gauge is the best route.
well, we’ll see ya then!….buh-bye!…
Pat
@harmonyards posted:off to another gauge is the best route.
well, we’ll see ya then!….buh-bye!…
Pat
DCC for o gauge - imho will never cut it….there will never enough demand…as the size of the trains - limits sales - cost limits sales - plus, many can not install upgrades themselves.
@feet posted:I wouldn't bet on that.
Crappy ordering system? Lol, that to say the least…..There would be lots of heads rolling at my Company. If a new software product - performed like the technology had a 25 year reversal.
All I was saying, 2 rail has done DCC for years now, there are decoders on the market that can run our trains. One could always replace the electronics with a simple reverse board and run for years. I like command control, that's why I have DCS and Legacy on my layout. If the time comes that my favorite engines can no longer run in command control I myself would convert over to DCC so I could continue running in command. My engine stable is on the small size, and the Tsunami2 4 amp decoder cost just under a cruise commander/railsounds upgrade combo, takes up less space, with full sounds built in. It also works with whoever's DCC system I decide to use. I can then also use the same to run the garden G scale when I build that for the CFO. If I will have to buy someone's new command system to run any new trains I buy, I might as well buy one that is an industry standard, pick up used conventional engines at reduced prices compared to new legacy or DCS or whatever system they come up with next to replace those with, install a decoder and have fun playing with my trains. I'm old enough now that looking 20 years in the future is not the problem, I won't be here then. The problem is the next 10 years or so. If I can continue to run what I have, fine. If it all breaks down with no repair parts, then a change is in order. It will probably all go in the dumpster when I'm gone anyways. Either way I will have to decide what to do before I go onto a fixed income and money then becomes the most important part of the equation. It's a hobby, enjoy it while you can, it's not the end of all things, there are options out there now, and will be in the future as well.
@shawn posted:DCC for o gauge - imho will never cut it….there will never enough demand…as the size of the trains - limits sales - cost limits sales - plus, many can not install upgrades themselves.
Ok, …in your opinion DCC will never cut it, …..that’s your opinion and certainly you’re entitled to it, …..but several of you have already done the “ I’m leaving “ whine, and y’all swear you’re going to another gauge,…..so it begs to ask, why are you still here?……kinda makes one wonder……..
Pat
@harmonyards posted:Ok, …in your opinion DCC will never cut it, …..that’s your opinion and certainly you’re entitled to it, …..but several of you have already done the “ I’m leaving “ whine, and y’all swear you’re going to another gauge,…..so it begs to ask, why are you still here?……kinda makes one wonder……..
Pat
The cost to convert to another standard is not worth it. I cut down on purchases - which basically started this year. I just canceled the few items, I was purchasing. Between - Quality - inflation - and "FORCED" obsolescence - I'm finished-
But, will always love all hobbies and the people.... Time for a new a CEO /COO. At least that's my opinion.
@harmonyards posted:Ok, …in your opinion DCC will never cut it, …..that’s your opinion and certainly you’re entitled to it, …..but several of you have already done the “ I’m leaving “ whine, and y’all swear you’re going to another gauge,…..so it begs to ask, why are you still here?……kinda makes one wonder……
Pat,
I (as many here) really appreciate all you do for the hobby and repairing/rebuilding our locomotives. So I say this with as much respect as possible. We do have the HONGZ forum for the other scales, and I like to think that other scales are welcome here, even if they swear off O-scale.
Further, I think peoples frustration here does stem somewhat from behaviors that are the complete opposite of consumer friendly. Lionel and MTH (to a lesser degree) have asked us to "trust them" over the last 20-25 years that their systems, that didn't follow industry standard, were somehow better and worth supporting with our dollars. Now, without an off-ramp Lionel is telling us "sorry, your up the so called 'creek' without a paddle". Sure, we can swim to shore, but were miles from where we'd like to be, and pretty wet. MTH at least saw it reasonable to add DCC support to their electronics (and yes, I realize that only PS3 locomotives have this benefit). Please don't misunderstand I'm not giving MTH a pass here - we can't get replacement parts from them either right now.
To sum it up - I think both Lionel and MTH are suffering because they chose to go their own way, rather than benefit from economies of scale by using industry standard parts. From a quick look at a few online retailers, DCC boards, even in light of the supply chain problems AND a much larger market (i.e. more demand), are still widely available and in-stock right now.
Lionel wants to have their proprietary system that isn't compatible with an industry standard, and not have to support their customers with older products. Essentially they want to eat their cake and have it too.
@harmonyards posted:Ok, …in your opinion DCC will never cut it, …..that’s your opinion and certainly you’re entitled to it, …..but several of you have already done the “ I’m leaving “ whine, and y’all swear you’re going to another gauge,…..so it begs to ask, why are you still here?……kinda makes one wonder……..
Pat
Pat,
OGR is a website that PROMOTES the benefits of O Gauge Modeling Railroading. Please quit doing your best to usher members out.
Since we have no real idea what's going on, except that parts are no longer listed on the Lionel website, it seems premature to be making judgements about whether what is happening reflects badly on Lionel, whether one should adopt DCC, divorce or immigrate to the moon . Or whether Mike Wolf is going close shop to go pre-law at University of Miami.
They usher themselves out fellas, ….as has been said many times not only by me, Lionel’s newest parts policy isn’t the end of O gauge civilization as we know it, ….yes, it stinks, yes it’s a bite in the behind, but certainly not a reason to fly the white flag of surrender….as I’ve said before, the ones that have the biggest gripe would be the service techs, and y’all don’t see them on this thread coming out with their hands up ……..it always seems to be the same cast of characters anytime something like this happens, they’re done, they’re tossing their stuff on the curb, they’re selling everything off, they’re moving to another scale, etc. etc,….and yet, the next worry, it’s the same song & dance from the same folks …add different scenario, repeat…….you can count the ones that cry wolf every time something like this, or a QC condition occurs……bring something productive to the table, and be useful to solve the problem, ……and maybe, just maybe we’ll get through this ….
Pat
@Darrell posted:I'm old enough now that looking 20 years in the future is not the problem, I won't be here then. The problem is the next 10 years or so. If I can continue to run what I have, fine. If it all breaks down with no repair parts, then a change is in order.
BINGO! At 79, I figure my parts inventory will keep most of my stuff running as long as I need. However, I'm looking at the overall market and scope of O-gauge users. Some of us have enough locomotives and rolling stock to last a lifetime, but I suspect most folks don't. Those are the folks that send me stuff to repair and I have to tell them they're out of luck!
@rplst8 posted:Lionel wants to have their proprietary system that isn't compatible with an industry standard, and not have to support their customers with older products. Essentially they want to eat their cake and have it too.
No, they want their cake and they want to eat mine! 
I'm also in the 70s Club. Even prior to the current fiasco I realized that I already and most likely have more trains than time. I have a few really nice legacy items, a few more TMCC, and a few more DCS; and many very nice conventional items.
While MTH's and Lionel's game playing absolutely "****es my off", I have plenty of trains that will keep chugging down the track, with or without them. Very fortunately, the Vision Line Hudson was my first and only $1500+ purchase. I also love my many F3 "growlers," my conventional FMs, and my fleet of short and full scale conventional GG1s.
Bargain priced conventional stuff (and ERR) is becoming more attractive as MTH and "Big L" play their games at our expense. I love this hobby but I tired of the their bull ****.
I'm not going anywhere Pat, unless I die which with my health issues could happen.
I won't get rid of all my O gauge trains either and I hope no one else does but that's up to them.
Outside of being smaller just what's wrong with H O? Like others have stated I'm tired of Lionel's B/S and quality control issues.
@Landsteiner posted:Since we have no real idea what's going on, except that parts are no longer listed on the Lionel website, it seems premature to be making judgements about whether what is happening reflects badly on Lionel, whether one should adopt DCC, divorce or immigrate to the moon
Lol , try as you might. Mike Wolf has nothing to do with Lionel abandoning it's older electronic parts.
Wait a minute. I stand corrected. Mth did get their hands on the best CS guy Lionel ever had , to revamp their parts site.
Oh the irony.
I just want to run trains. I have no interest in trouble shooting electronic issues.
Even though I love command control, Postwar is looking better and better!
@feet posted:I'm not going anywhere Pat, unless I die which with my health issues could happen.
I won't get rid of all my O gauge trains either and I hope no one else does but that's up to them.
Outside of being smaller just what's wrong with H O? Like others have stated I'm tired of Lionel's B/S and quality control issues.
Absolutely nothing wrong with HO, or any other scale or any other hobby for that matter,….to each his own, ….enjoy, …..but the same people complain & whine every time something like this happens, and the first thing they reply: “I’m done, I’m leaving, woe is me” …and yet they’re right back the next time an issue comes across the pike, and it’s repeat city,……there’s a HONGNZ forum on this site, they can go over there and hopefully find happiness, ….or more than likely cry over there, and swear they’re gonna take up basket weaving, ……😉
Pat
@harmonyards posted:Absolutely nothing wrong with HO, or any other scale or any other hobby for that matter,….to each his own, ….enjoy, …..but the same people complain & whine every time something like this happens, and the first thing they reply: “I’m done, I’m leaving, woe is me” …and yet they’re right back the next time an issue comes across the pike, and it’s repeat city,……there’s a HONGNZ forum on this site, they can go over there and hopefully find happiness, ….or more than likely cry over there, and swear they’re gonna take up basket weaving, ……😉
Pat
Well they do have a right to complain. If Lionel had their house in order this would never have happened. But Your right some people complain just to be complaining.
@feet posted:Well they do have a right to complain. If Lionel had their house in order this would never have happened. But Your right some people complain just to be complaining.
Exactly!!…..THANK YOU!!….you hit the nail on the head, ….absolutely have the right to complain, ……no questions about that, …..but the ones that stay in a perpetual state of surrender, …..go on and do it, OR, be a productive contributor, and let’s fix this and offer those looking for the remedies insight, in field reports, etc,….whining fixes nothing ……let’s look back at the Legacy K4’s and the crappy gear box Lionel left us,….folks cried, and cried, Lionel did squat, we developed a fix, people still cried about Lionel,…..we implemented the fix with the help of a lot of forum members, we designed a list, marked those engines as potential failures …the whiners still whined……and yet Lionel still had nothing to say,……the point is, if you like the model, just fix it, and enjoy it, …..I had to work twice as hard at weeding out the whiners as I did picking up on and implementing feedback from those that had a serious desire to see the fix bear fruit,……again, yeah, it sucks ….it sucks that Lionel didn’t even raise an eyebrow, but in the end, we have an economical fix, and the worry is gone,…….the same can happen here with this issue, ….granted it’s way way more complex than shoving a beam in a gearbox, but I remain optimistic a third party is gonna come up with at least some solutions …when??….h-e-double toothpicks if I know, but the more I’m hearing the more I like ….
Pat
@gunrunnerjohn posted:BINGO! At 79, I figure my parts inventory will keep most of my stuff running as long as I need. However, I'm looking at the overall market and scope of O-gauge users. Some of us have enough locomotives and rolling stock to last a lifetime, but I suspect most folks don't. Those are the folks that send me stuff to repair and I have to tell them they're out of luck!
And when you get around to mine, I'm hoping to be one of those who is still IN luck. (fingers crossed)
Geez John, I didn't know you are THAT old! 
It seems that you have enough accumulated locomotives, especially steamers, that you could run a different one every week for the rest of your life, right? 😉
@gunrunnerjohn posted:BINGO! At 79, I figure my parts inventory will keep most of my stuff running as long as I need. However, I'm looking at the overall market and scope of O-gauge users. Some of us have enough locomotives and rolling stock to last a lifetime, but I suspect most folks don't. Those are the folks that send me stuff to repair and I have to tell them they're out of luck!
I didn’t know you were that old either? Quite spry for 79!!!!👍👍
"Lol , try as you might. Mike Wolf has nothing to do with Lionel abandoning it's older electronic parts.
Wait a minute. I stand corrected. Mth did get their hands on the best CS guy Lionel ever had , to revamp their parts site.
Oh the irony."
Nope, purely humor. A reference to Mike's previously serious addiction to the court system.
We don't know that Lionel is abandoning its older parts. Indeed, we have no idea exactly what is happening. Just lots of speculation and handwringing .
As for MTH getting their hands on Mike Reagan, they are surely paying him well, and offered him an equity interest, or that's what we've heard. Time will tell whether this is merely rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic or something wonderful for MTH fans. No irony in that, just uncertainty as with all things in the future. Mike Reagan needs to make a living as he's a young guy. He loses nothing even if MTH completely disappears from the face of the earth, so why not give it a go since he's done it before?
Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership
