Motor control board DCDS and other electronic parts not available via Lionel

Something stinks in Parts!  Every Legacy DCDS is out of stock at Lionel.  I'd call them and ask what's happening!

What's wrong with yours?  You may have to consider repairing it if it's not the microprocessor.

I think something like inventory or getting ready for the annual parts sale is happening, every TMCC & early Legacy motherboard is out of stock as well.  That's almost impossible!

I will plan to call Lionel in the morning and see what is happening.  

I have two that are problems.

First DCDS - when power is applied to track, after maybe .5 seconds, the engine moves forward.  The sounds work on the tender (Whistle, etc.).  Engine will not reverse.  Almost like it is locked in forward.  Throttle control on Cab2 does not change or control speed.  Hitting the reverse bottom has no effect.

Second DCDS - when power is applied to track, normal start-up sounds, etc.  Tender functions all work (sounds, back-up light, rear coupler opens upon request from Cab2.)  No movement from motor.

I mentioned the issue with the 2nd DCDS in another tread and was able to verify engine will operate fine with a working spare DCDS-J code 16 that I have. I'm trying to determine which components on the troubled boards that could have failed.  No luck yet.  Any guidance would be appreciated.

The first DCDS sounds like a FET has shorted, that would be the first thing I checked.  I'd be looking at the FET drivers on the second one as well.

I just spoke with Lionel support (parts) this morning (9-16-22).  They were told yesterday that these parts will no longer be available from Lionel and they will not be receiving any re-supply.  Some of the parts in question, specifically the DCDS boards, were actually out of stock, while others were pulled.  They have not been told what will be the disposition of any remaining stock that was pulled.

I have my theories about what is being done, but I will leave that unsaid.  Needles to say, I was very sadden by this.

John,
I'll start testing the FETs as you mentioned.

I hope that the ERR boards, or their equivalent, continue to improve and be used as replacement boards when and if the original boards fail.  This would be especially true for the early Legacy engines that do not use the current RCDR boards.  I guess an option would be to use the newer RCDR boards and hope they interface without too much effort...  Has anyone else tried this on the early VisionLine engines that still used the DCDS?

Wow, that's a bummer!  There is no replacement for early Legacy DCDS boards, if one of those fails, you have a shelf queen!

That makes absolutely no sense!

Actually if you search on all the electronics used from early Legacy back you will see virtually all items are NLA. That includes RxLCs, Audio, audio power, AD20s, DCDS, DCDE, AC Regulators and associated motherboards.

Trains made before the last ten years have been declared obsolete. Not my term.

Post War fans have been proven correct. Command control trains are fast becoming shelf art.

This not only affects Lionel trains but many made by Atlas, Weaver, 3rd Rail, and K-Line that used Lionel modular electronics.

Pete

If anyone has information on who or where these "obsolete" parts go, and would be willing to share, I'd be very grateful.

I just saw the same.  All the radio boards are out of stock - r2lc, r4lc, LCRUs.  They are all gone. How can there be no boards available for TMCC? I hope Lionel clarifies what is going on. The parts just didn't disappear.  They must be going somewhere.    Now the only parts that are available are the RCMC boards.

@Joe Fermani posted:

How can there be no radio boards available for TMCC?

Apparently, simply by decree!

Could the end of ERR items be next?

Just trying to put 2 and 2 together.

Option 1, Lionel knows the parts sale coming up could deplete low stock already they might want/need for repairs. So, they pulled it early to prevent them getting sold out at the sale.

Option 2, someone like Trainz, who I also heard that possibly picked up the parts business and stock from North Lima, well maybe they made or got an offer from Lionel on these now older parts??

I think that (Trainz taking them) would be a mixed bag. Good we could get those parts that have been held hostage and North Lima kinda fell apart there in the end as a business, and the downside, Trainz has the parts and can charge whatever they want to make a profit. No half off sale, and likely no way of them replenishing once exhausted.

Given the future that electronics are getting hard to source- especially older obsolete parts, and Lionel has long gone to newer electronics and platforms- the engines are out of warranty long ago anyway, this is Lionel's way of slowly weening off their end of support on older product.

To be fair, I saw this as kind of warning shot across the bow. They didn't explain it, but again, knowing how many of us had been buying lots of electronics and components for upgrades at the sale, they could have an "out clause" to exclude those items.

http://www.lionel.com/articles...ual-Parts-Sale-2022/

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I think something like inventory or getting ready for the annual parts sale is happening, every TMCC & early Legacy motherboard is out of stock as well.  That's almost impossible!

John:

This has been an issue for some time, but it sounds like it has gotten worse. I had a dead motherboard for a Legacy private run C420 right out of the box a couple of years ago and had to cannibalize a stock C420 to replace the motherboard.

Pat

Well, it's a very disconcerting shot, that's for sure.  In one fell swoop we can no longer service TMCC or early Legacy locomotives!

Hopefully, the MTH PS/3 upgrade kits come back on the market so we can get those old beasts running again.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Wow, that's a bummer!  There is no replacement for early Legacy DCDS boards, if one of those fails, you have a shelf queen!

That makes absolutely no sense!

Couldn't agree more. I fear that the same applies to motherboards, as I am also unconvinced that Lionel will be offering any replacements.

Lionel needs to state its position concerning these issues and explain why it arrived at its position to all of its customers. Maybe Lionel believes that if you can't repair one of their engines, you will be forced to buy a new one to replace it.

Pat

Can you substitute ERR Co. boards to avoid having a shelf queen?

For Legacy R4LC or DCDS boards, you're out of luck.  For TMCC, you can use the ERR R4LC-C08 TMCC receiver and the Cruise Commander M to replace a dead DCDS.

I just ordered a Railsounds power board  from Trainz. I bet they are now in the older Lionel electronic parts business. It shows in stock and I have received a confirmation e mail. Price same as Lionel $40.00. ERR just got a bit of business from me  also.

Richard

It appears impossible to actually find any specific part on Trainz, and I thought Lionel's parts site was bad.

Yikes. I just looked at my cart I was saving for the sale. In the last week all railsounds 4 boards and r2lc versions went out of stock. Lionel just saved me a bunch of money. Bummer.  I wonder if they will return after the sale?

If Lionel thinks its better for their bottom line to no longer carry parts for older stuff, it will hurt them more than they think.  I can't even get parts for current production items!  My wife got me the vision line 3 pack of PRR sound cars last Christmas.  She bought them over the summer and held it for Christmas.  When I opened it over the holidays, I found the volume control was broken.  Called Lionel and they had no parts to send me.  It was less than a year old.  I had to hand make a solution to fix the car.   I even emailed Ryan at Lionel about the parts and he assured me Lionel was stocking parts and that they would be available.  He said the parts department was still behind from the pandemic.   I don't see it getting better.  This will make me think twice about buying older tmcc/legacy locomotives as well as new stuff.  If something dies, its a shelf queen.  How many threads have we seen where engines were not assembled correctly at the factory?  Pinched wires, frayed cables, loose screws under the hood are ticking time bombs.  One false move and a dead short will blow a board you can't replace.  I really enjoy all the new products but if Lionel is not going to support them, whats the point?

GRJ and others.....You have to use the items name not the actual part number. I hope trainz address that.

Richard

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The first DCDS sounds like a FET has shorted, that would be the first thing I checked.  I'd be looking at the FET drivers on the second one as well.

John,
Is there a way to test these while they are in place on the boards?  I went on line to see how to test FETs, but all examples I see are with the FETs removed.

When I test in place, I get .515 volts across D-S on the P series and 2.06 volts across D-S on the N series.

I get no dead short from pin to pin.  I do get continuity from center pin to metal heat sink plate.

I'm not sure I'm doing this right.

The reason why they want you to test out of the circuit is the fact that #1 many FETs have a built in snubber diode to protect the FET junction. Hence "When I test in place, I get .515 volts across D-S on the P series and 2.06 volts across D-S on the N series." exactly- you are potentially measuring that diode and yes, that diode is reverse polarity from N channel VS P channel. To be effective- you have to test BOTH polarities with the meter on a given FET to ensure the diode and the junction are intact.

Gate should and hopefully would be open circuit to anything and the tab is also known to be common with the center pin.

Point being, just from where I stand, your test data points that the FETs might be OK, and the problem is elsewhere. You didn't see a dead short, they weren't obviously cooked, and the board did not short the power supply coming in. That then lands the fault potentially in the logic area- where it is much harder to repair or fix- let alone troubleshoot and may not be possible using simple techniques.

But that's just my $2 (hey inflation).

Testing for a sorted FET in circuit is no problem, it's just looking for an open that's an issue.

For an operational test, you can also monitor the gate voltage and see if they're getting activated and not working.

In any case, if in total doubt, I replace the $2 parts and see if that fixes it.

Looks like HO is looking better & better to me. Getting parts from Trainz, get ready to pull your hair out.

@Rppoind posted:

GRJ and others.....You have to use the items name not the actual part number. I hope trainz address that.

Richard

In that case, they don't have any of the early Legacy parts, and no R2LC or R4LC either.  Motherboards?  I have a lot more TMCC/Legacy motherboards than they do!  AAMOF, I have more of all those parts I looked for than they do!

@irish rifle posted:

…Maybe Lionel believes that if you can't repair one of their engines, you will be forced to buy a new one to replace it…

Ding, ding, ding…we have a winner! It seems planned/forced obsolescence is a recurring and dominant theme for the electronic/digital world in which we live. 🤬

Bill

I noticed that a lot of my favorite parts were out of stock/unavailable too. I mostly buy RS4 boards and related and always thought that someday Lionel could just stop selling them for whatever reason. I was even pleasantly surprised the past couple years when they were willing to burn some of may favorite RS4 soundsets after they showed non-availability. If this is truly the end of Lionel being a source of TMCC parts and spares, it was a good run! Glad I was able to get some of those parts for my projects.

I did some quick searches and it looks to me all TMCC and early Legacy electronics are gone. That includes everything to do with Railsounds 5.5 and earlier. Oddly they still seem to have parts relating to the Odyssey 1 magnetic tach system. There is no way Lionel could have sold out of all these parts in such a short time without something being left. That leads to two possible conclusions: Lionel doesn't want these parts included in the 50% off parts sale and they will be back after the sale or more likely they have sold it all to someone just like they sold their old parts to North Lima Trainworks years ago. Wouldn't it be great if Mike Regan bought them to add to his MTH parts business? I can hope anyhow.

Ken

@kanawha posted:

Wouldn't it be great if Mike Regan bought them to add to his MTH parts business? I can hope anyhow.

I'm not seeing the MTH parts site offering Lionel parts, but maybe I'm just short-sighted!

I smell a rat and it’s orange and blue (L).   I’ve been waiting months to purchase a discounted board for a loco and now this.   They just keep finding new ways to drive me out of this hobby.  

@Steims posted:

I smell a rat and it’s orange and blue (L).   I’ve been waiting months to purchase a discounted board for a loco and now this.   They just keep finding new ways to drive me out of this hobby.  

@Steims,

Then why are you still here?

The component shortage has highlighted a big problem with older electronics.  The fact is that they have a gold mine in hand and may not be able to get replacements inexpensively going forward.

Now, sneaky is a good term.  A professional public service announcement would go a long way toward helping us understand what's happening, but so far we hear nothing but crickets -- and they're not digitized electronic ones emanating from a speaker.

Mike

I had parts in my cart yesterday that were available but not today.  Wow someone bought a ship load o parts.  I was awaiting the Sept 25th half off sale.  Wonder if that is the reason they took down certain parts?

@laz1957 posted:

I had parts in my cart yesterday that were available but not today.

I just got a shipping notice for my most recent order, it's the last electronic parts.  I just ordered everything, sorry folks.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I just got a shipping notice for my most recent order, it's the last electronic parts.  I just ordered everything, sorry folks.

We know that is a bunch of BS.  Why would you ever buy all the boards when we know darn well you can fix boards for nickels on the dollars.    Nice try GRJ. 

I remember when Lionel stated no train left behind. Apparently that's out the window now.

@feet posted:

I remember when Lionel stated no train left behind.

I don't.  When was this statement made, and by whom?

Mike