Skip to main content

I am looking to do a conversion of the MTH #80 Coal Turbine with Protosounds 1 to TMCC with an ERR Cruise Command board.  I just did a Gas Turbine and the results so far are very good.  I was wondering if the lighting was the same in the Coal Turbine as the Gas Turbine.  If they are I assume the marker, cab, and mars light are on a step down 6 volt board that is wired to track power and the head and rear lights are 1.5 volt wired to the command board.  Can someone verify my thoughts on the lights?  The B unit has two smoke units and I need some assistance in how to wire a relay to have control off the ERR board for both smoke units.  I assume the first unit is connected directly to the ERR board and a wire is also connected to activate the relay that toggels the track power for the second smoke unit.  I understand I will need the .01 uf capacitor between the ERR feature output and ground as well.  I need a recommendation for a relay (part number and source) as well as any other components such as rectifiers, diodes, resistors, etc that need to be wirred into the relay.

Thanks in advance for any help

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

John,

I finally got the Veranda running with basic motor connections.  At very low speed one of the motors is slow to respond.  The other three motors drag the unit till enough voltage is applied to the track and the lagging motor kicks in and runs.  I find this to be most prevelant in the 100 speed step mode.  I have a spare Veranda for parts.  Should I switch out this motor for another, or is this a typical symptom of trying to run 4 motors off of a cruise commander board?  I find it odd it is the same motor over and over.  This is why I think switching it out could possibly fix the problem.

Mark

John,

I pulled the motor in question and inspected the gears.  The truck and gears moved very freely.  I pulled the same position motor from the parts Veranda I have in stock.  I installed it and the unit runs perfectly and at super low speeds as well.  There is definitely something a bit wrong with the other motor.  I have to finish the wiring later this week.  Thanks again for all the help!

Mark

John,

I have the Veranda completely rewired and ready.  Everything works except I have a problem.  I never ran an MTH Veranda.  I own a Lionel and have run it before.  The Lionel Veranda is very forgiving on curve radius's.  The MTH Veranda is very tight on a 072 curve and in reverse will jump the track.  I am pretty sure this is not correct.  The Veranda has a sub floor and I was very careful in the disassebly and reassembly.  My parts Veranda is the same way.  Is there any advice you could give me on this situation.  Is there an assembly trick I missed?  Other than this problem the Veranda is running great and ready to go.

Mark

John,

The only I/O things connected were the smoke relay circuit you taught me to build and the motors.  I am in disbelief that I made this mistake.  I have another Cruise Commnader and R4LC.  So I will start over.  Do you think the smoke relay circuit was damaged in this wrong wiring mistake?

Mark

John,

It was getting very late, but I did wire it correctly and tried it with a new R4LC.  The relay was switching on and off in the intial strobe light mode.  The motors came on at full speed, so something is wrong.  I plan to install a new Cruise Commander board and new R4LC next time I work on it.  I will advice on the outcome.  I believe the motors are fine.  The smoke relay circuit is a concern.  If it works when I reinstall a new board, does this mean it is ok?

Mark

John,

I thought I would share the results of the installation of a new cruise board.  Upon installation of a new board and new R4LC the engine had an immediate short.  I ran down all the wires.  Everything was correct.  I stripped it down to individual components and tested them.  The culprit was the new Cruise board.  i have a huge parts supply, so I grabbed another board.  I tested this board by itself and then with an R4LC.  It worked.  I installed it and tried it without motors.  It worked.  As soon as I connected the motors the engine went forward and when I reversed it it shorted again.  I tried another Cruise board and found this time the setup worked.  I did test the R4LC from the other boards I tried and they were fine.  I believe the cruise boards could not handle the four motors and something went wrong.  The unit has functioning smoke units now, so the relay is fine.  I have half the lighting working.  I have to reconnected the directional lighting and couplers.  I retested the bad cruise boards and they short upon application of power.  This project is getting very expensive.  I just hope the board I have installed now lasts.  Any thoughts on this strange situation?  I am learning a ton doing this, but at a large financial cost.

Mark    

Mark,

I have no idea what is happening, but I seriously doubt that you got that many bad cruise boards!  In over a hundred of them installed, I've only had a few of minor issues, two times they were bad solder joints, and one time the uP must have been flaky, the board did all sorts of strange things.

If you want a shot at recovering the cruise boards, I may be able to fix them, depends on what is shorted.  Typically, it's the output FET's, next possibility is the bridge rectifier.  If you have a motor lead shorted to the chassis, it can take out the output FETs, and sometimes it's a directional thing.

John and GGG,

I figured the short at the motor connection out after the second board reacted badly.  I used a meter and tested each motor connection and resoldered a few of the connections.  I believe I have the motor connections free of any shorting to ground issues now.  I will recheck them again to be sure.  The unit does function properly now.  I did have a problem at one point where the unit would come on and go forward at full power during the installations of the two failed boards.  It sounds like I had a motor ground issue during the first two istallations.  I appreciate all the help.  I am learning a ton from all the help on the forum.  John, if you think you can fix the two bad boards, I would be happy to pay you to look at them.  Let me know. 

Mark

John,

I verified that only two cruise boards were damaged due to the short on the solder joint on one of the can motors.  I tested a few other cruise boards with a few different R4LC and I was able to get the feature function to turn on and off a light bulb.  I did not completely wire the cruise boards to an engine.  Can I assume the board and R4LC is ok with just a connection to power and testing the feature connection, or do I have to completely connect the entire board?

Mark

Well, I hate to state the obvious, but you don't truly know they're "OK" unless you've tested all the functionality.  You've tested basic TMCC operation and the feature output.  You haven't checked the front and rear lights or the motor function.  If you haven't abused them, they probably work, but I have no idea what transpired with the boards before you were testing them.

I solved the derailing issue by rearranging the wiring.  I have done a few conversions and all of them had spacious cabs.  The Veranda is tight inside the cab.  In addition to being very challenging with all of its parts (4 motors, 2 smoke units, etc) it has a special need for clearances on the motors when neogiating turns.  I had made a mistake by having  a few wires going along side the motors close to the cab.  This was limiting the turning radius of the trucks.  I rewired the unit with special attention to wires being in a harness in the space just below the roof.  This allowed for the max movement inside the unit to allow for negotiating the turns.  

John,

I plan to build a small test board for these two questionable ERR Cruise boards.  Will any DC can motor be sufficient for testing purposes?  I have a few general purpose can motors on hand, or should I get original train engine can motors?  I just want to be sure everything is functioning before I decide to install the boards again.

Mark

I use an locomotive motor from my parts box, but most any comparable size motor should work.

Unless you're going to have more than two boards to get, a test fixture is probably overkill.  I just wire power and motors to the CC, and then connect three light bulbs to the light and feature outputs, add a program switch and test away.  I only resort to that when I know they've malfunctioned in the original installation and the R4LC has been swapped.

John,

What is the best way to stop an MTH smoke unit fan from squeaking.  Obviously oiling it is the answer, but I am not sure about the fact that it is a small can motor about oiling it.  The Veranda keeps throwing challenges at me as I iron out problems more appear.  The Veranda is a new unit from back in the 90's so things are a bit dry on it.

Mark

Add Reply

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×