MTH DCS Remote Control - 99 Train Limit

Nope, never heard of one.  Since the engines are stored in the remote, you can have a second remote with a different set of engines loaded.

Matt New posted:

Is there a work around for the 99 Train limited that can be added to the controller?

I am using the MTH 50-1001 remote controller  

Give away engine 100 and above?  My email is in my profile. 

Is this true with the Wi-Fi as well.  Use a second iPhone for mor than 99 engines or to segregate certain engines?

I don't see a "fix" coming for this one anytime soon.  I expect MTH solves for the 80/20 rule.  I imagine those with > 100 engines equals about 1/10 of 1% based on my completely unscientific experiences of being here for years and seeing the various threads that tie back to quantity. 

John

Just curious... It takes me a while to scroll through 20 engines.  And if the engine is inactive (I hate that) you have to do it twice.  

Just how long does it take someone with 99 engines to scroll through your list?  Do you have some sort of cheat sheet so you know what engine is what address?

Is there a way to enter in an address directly to select an engine vs scrolling through the list?

Having Fun, even though I don't have 99 engines. 

Ron

I think you can enter the engine number instead of scrolling.

You can also change engine numbers so you know where your favorites are.

Thanks Every one - I will get a second remote and keep my trains over 100 

Yes...no need to scroll....just enter the engine number.  I'd just keep a small printed/laminated list for reference.

-Greg

Hi guys,

You've touched on a couple of my pet peeves with DCS (and Legacy for that matter) in this thread.  One of the few real advantages of DCC is the option to use addresses from 0 to 16,383 (usually advertised as 0-9999).  This almost always lets you use the cab number of an engine as the address.  Ironically, while the DCS remote was memory limited to addresses 1-99, DCS PS2 engines will actually store an alpha numeric address up to five characters.   That means you could not only program a locomotive like a Great Northern S-2 steamer with its cab number "2487", but you could program a Union Pacific big blow turbine to match its number boards with "X5."  Unfortunately, MTH programmed the TIU to use address 100 for incoming commands to lash-ups.  When PS3 came out for O and G gauge in 2010, they added a new feature that made programming PS3 engines a little more reliable.  Since PS2 engines could store addresses that the DCS remote could use, it was possible to have an engine to accidentally get programmed out of the 1-99 range.  The "recover engine" feature was added to the TIU and remote to reset an engine with an address outside the 1-99 range back to the factory default address 0.  PS3 engines made the "recover engine" feature internal to the engine.  If the engine ever receives an engine address change command outside the 1-99 range, the engine automatically resets itself to the factory default address 0.  When we started work on the app, there was plenty of memory to store more than 99 engines.  Unfortunately, the TIU firmware would have had to change significantly to allow address 100 to be used as a normal engine and all PS3 engines would have needed a firmware change to eliminate the internal "recover engine" feature.  Thus, the app inherited the same 99 engine limit from the DCS remote.

Ron045 posted:

Just curious... It takes me a while to scroll through 20 engines.  And if the engine is inactive (I hate that) you have to do it twice.  

The whole distinction between active and inactive engines is another pet peeve of mine.  The ONLY reason this bug/feature exists is to function as a filter for the "all engine" feature.  It's really an "all active engine" feature.  If we all agreed to get rid of the all engine feature we could get rid of the active/inactive distinction and eliminate the need for the app to perform "reads" so often.

Dave, couldn't they have set the engine 100 to the extreme value of the fifth digit and then somehow just protect that value?

Seems ridiculous that they set it at 100??

Dave Hikel posted:

Ron045 posted:

Just curious... It takes me a while to scroll through 20 engines.  And if the engine is inactive (I hate that) you have to do it twice.  

The whole distinction between active and inactive engines is another pet peeve of mine.  The ONLY reason this bug/feature exists is to function as a filter for the "all engine" feature.  It's really an "all active engine" feature.  If we all agreed to get rid of the all engine feature we could get rid of the active/inactive distinction and eliminate the need for the app to perform "reads" so often.

From my experience the APP seems to decide to make them inactive more often than the remote.  But why not give the user the ability to decide what should be active or inactive.? Why does the remote/app get to decide?

When you do a read, the remote puts everything it doesn't find in the inactive list.  However, unless you push the READ key, that doesn't happen.

I presume from what Dave is saying, the app actually does reads periodically, which would explain why those engines end up in the inactive list.

I agree about the "all engine" feature, that doesn't seem that useful for me.  The only time I've found it useful is when you have a bunch of stuff parked on the layout and a power interrupt brings a bunch of them up in conventional mode.  You can shut then all down with the "all engine" feature without interrupting other operations.

Dave Hikel posted:

Hi guys,

You've touched on a couple of my pet peeves with DCS (and Legacy for that matter) in this thread.  One of the few real advantages of DCC is the option to use addresses from 0 to 16,383 (usually advertised as 0-9999).  This almost always lets you use the cab number of an engine as the address.  Ironically, while the DCS remote was memory limited to addresses 1-99, DCS PS2 engines will actually store an alpha numeric address up to five characters.   That means you could not only program a locomotive like a Great Northern S-2 steamer with its cab number "2487", but you could program a Union Pacific big blow turbine to match its number boards with "X5."  Unfortunately, MTH programmed the TIU to use address 100 for incoming commands to lash-ups.  When PS3 came out for O and G gauge in 2010, they added a new feature that made programming PS3 engines a little more reliable.  Since PS2 engines could store addresses that the DCS remote could use, it was possible to have an engine to accidentally get programmed out of the 1-99 range.  The "recover engine" feature was added to the TIU and remote to reset an engine with an address outside the 1-99 range back to the factory default address 0.  PS3 engines made the "recover engine" feature internal to the engine.  If the engine ever receives an engine address change command outside the 1-99 range, the engine automatically resets itself to the factory default address 0.  When we started work on the app, there was plenty of memory to store more than 99 engines.  Unfortunately, the TIU firmware would have had to change significantly to allow address 100 to be used as a normal engine and all PS3 engines would have needed a firmware change to eliminate the internal "recover engine" feature.  Thus, the app inherited the same 99 engine limit from the DCS remote.

Ron045 posted:

Just curious... It takes me a while to scroll through 20 engines.  And if the engine is inactive (I hate that) you have to do it twice.  

The whole distinction between active and inactive engines is another pet peeve of mine.  The ONLY reason this bug/feature exists is to function as a filter for the "all engine" feature.  It's really an "all active engine" feature.  If we all agreed to get rid of the all engine feature we could get rid of the active/inactive distinction and eliminate the need for the app to perform "reads" so often.

Dave, 

Getting rid of the 'All Engine' Feature is fine with me.  I have cut off the READ button on all of my remotes.  There are a few other features that I feel are completely unnecessary and wouldn't mind seeing them go away.

Dave

That may be fine for you Dave, but others may use and like those features.  I like the inactive engines at the bottom so that I don't needlessly scroll through the entire roster looking for one active engine hidden among a lot of inactive ones.

I also like the all engines features as I do have some portable layouts where 3 to 4 trains chase each other on the same main line. It allows me to start all 4 trains at the same time at the same speed.

Much like anything in life, there is no product that produces 100% satisfaction for 100% of it's consumers.

H1000 posted:

That may be fine for you Dave, but others may use and like those features.  I like the inactive engines at the bottom so that I don't needlessly scroll through the entire roster looking for one active engine hidden among a lot of inactive ones.

 

But it could easily satisfy both of our wants and needs if the control of Active/Inactive was in "our hands" vice the software choosing for us.

Ron045 posted:

H1000 posted:

That may be fine for you Dave, but others may use and like those features.  I like the inactive engines at the bottom so that I don't needlessly scroll through the entire roster looking for one active engine hidden among a lot of inactive ones.

 

But it could easily satisfy both of our wants and needs if the control of Active/Inactive was in "our hands" vice the software choosing for us.

When I perform a read on my layout, right now it should find 8 active engines. With one glance on the app I can tell if all eight are responsive and ready to go. I have had a few times where only 7 or 6 show up and I know to go and investigate why these other engines that should have been found are not.

On the remote, I know I can move engines to the inactive list and recall them from that list as well without using the READ function.  The app, I'm not sure that one can do that, I've never tried it... But  I will tonight!

Ron045 posted:

H1000 posted:

That may be fine for you Dave, but others may use and like those features.  I like the inactive engines at the bottom so that I don't needlessly scroll through the entire roster looking for one active engine hidden among a lot of inactive ones.

 

But it could easily satisfy both of our wants and needs if the control of Active/Inactive was in "our hands" vice the software choosing for us.

Ahhh.  A toggle on/off feature.  I like that!

H1000 you can just type in the number of the engine you are looking for instead of scrolling through the entire list.  I have mine arranged by RR name starting with steam and ending with diesels.  Each RR gets 10-20 dedicated memory locations.  Then all of my remotes are cloned.  Pretty easy!

H1000 posted:

That may be fine for you Dave, but others may use and like those features.  I like the inactive engines at the bottom so that I don't needlessly scroll through the entire roster looking for one active engine hidden among a lot of inactive ones.

I also like the all engines features as I do have some portable layouts where 3 to 4 trains chase each other on the same main line. It allows me to start all 4 trains at the same time at the same speed.

Much like anything in life, there is no product that produces 100% satisfaction for 100% of it's consumers.

You would also be able to create a lashup with those 3 or 4 engines but do not physically couple them..  Hit startup and they would all run at the same speed.

I believe the lashup feature creates a subset engine list and uses an 'ALL' feature.  Dave Hikel?

David Minarik posted:

H1000 posted:

That may be fine for you Dave, but others may use and like those features.  I like the inactive engines at the bottom so that I don't needlessly scroll through the entire roster looking for one active engine hidden among a lot of inactive ones.

I also like the all engines features as I do have some portable layouts where 3 to 4 trains chase each other on the same main line. It allows me to start all 4 trains at the same time at the same speed.

Much like anything in life, there is no product that produces 100% satisfaction for 100% of it's consumers.

You would also be able to create a lashup with those 3 or 4 engines but do not physically couple them..  Hit startup and they would all run at the same speed.

I believe the lashup feature creates a subset engine list and uses an 'ALL' feature.  Dave Hikel?

But I can't control them individually when they are in a lash up. As different trains round the corner into an observers view, I can ring the bell, blow the horn, & control the smoke on each consist individually. Also, as perfect as the speed control is between engines, it seems that one will eventually catch another. A minor speed adjust up or down by 1 smph is needed about every thirty to forty minutes to keep them from playing "bumper cars".

The way the remote operates is really slick, I have 4 trains on the first main line and three on the next two for a total of 10 consists I control at one time.  I place the first four in the active list and move everything else inactive. Use the "All Engines" to get them started. Repeat this process for the next two main lines and once everything is running do a "READ" so that I can control everything individually.

With the app, the access to the quickset speed is much easier to access than the remote so I can usually get three to four consists running in sync without the use of the "All Engines" feature.

David Minarik posted:

H1000 you can just type in the number of the engine you are looking for instead of scrolling through the entire list.  I have mine arranged by RR name starting with steam and ending with diesels.  Each RR gets 10-20 dedicated memory locations.  Then all of my remotes are cloned.  Pretty easy!

Unfortunately, my railroads aren't as organized as yours, I do like your method! I have some duplicates that run at the same time. pushing more button on the DCS remote only slows things down more. Since I have switched to the app it really is no longer an issue. The app has allowed me to operate everything much faster and displays much more information on the screen. Switching between engines and using the speedometer instead of the "Quickset" speed is much faster on the app vs the remote.

Another thought would be to use the Macro Record & Play feature to at least get all the trains moving to my initial desired speed. That way I only have to go through the hassle & stress of programming that macro once, and then just play it back to get my layout in full motion with the press of one button.

You can pull individual engines in a lashup from the inactive list to the active list and ring the bell, turn lights on etc. while they are running in a lashup.

Quickset speed is another thing I could easily eliminate.  Maybe we are not in the same hobby.  LOL

Engineer-Joe posted:

Dave, couldn't they have set the engine 100 to the extreme value of the fifth digit and then somehow just protect that value?

Seems ridiculous that they set it at 100??

That was my thinking Joe.  I think changing the TIU code to do that wouldn't have been so bad.  The bigger issue was that there were several years worth of PS3 engines that had been made to that point that would not have been compatible with five digit engine addresses.  Building the "recover engine" feature into the engines seemed like a good idea in 2007 or 2008, but it hobbled the future potential of PS3 engines compared to PS2.

Ron045 posted:

From my experience the APP seems to decide to make them inactive more often than the remote.  But why not give the user the ability to decide what should be active or inactive.? Why does the remote/app get to decide?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

When you do a read, the remote puts everything it doesn't find in the inactive list.  However, unless you push the READ key, that doesn't happen.

I presume from what Dave is saying, the app actually does reads periodically, which would explain why those engines end up in the inactive list.

The app definitely moves engines to inactive more frequently than the remote.  That's because, as GRJ said, the remote only does a "read" when you press the "read" button.  As Dave mentioned, you can defeat the button, which ensures the remote never drops engines from the active to inactive list.  On the NorthWest Trunk Lines layout we have a dozen DCS remotes for the occasional large operating session.  I made 10 of the 12 remotes "operator only" remotes by taping over the contact pads on the circuit board for several buttons, including the read button.

The app on the other hand performs a "read" every time you press the "run my trains" button to start the operation.  In full disclosure, it was NOT my idea to have the app do that.

The idea of having the remote (and later the app) decide if an engine should be active or inactive was sound.  You only want the remote/app to talk to engines that are actually on the track and powered.  Sending a bunch of commands to engines that will never reply causes a LOT of bad timing issues.  The problem is not so much the "read" feature or the active/inactive distinction as it is the reliability of the read.  Far too often an engine that is on the track and powered does not get read properly and gets dumped to inactive.  Adding a manual override would make things a lot better.  I think if I had the chance again, I'd do something a bit different to try to satisfy all parties.

H1000 posted:

That may be fine for you Dave, but others may use and like those features.  I like the inactive engines at the bottom so that I don't needlessly scroll through the entire roster looking for one active engine hidden among a lot of inactive ones.

I also like the all engines features as I do have some portable layouts where 3 to 4 trains chase each other on the same main line. It allows me to start all 4 trains at the same time at the same speed.

Most of the issues with slow scrolling and manual naming disappeared with the app.  The big screen, fast scrolling with a swipe of the finger, and a full querty keyboard made things a LOT better.  I think if I could do things over, I would get rid of the active/inactive distinction and drop the "all engine" feature, but then replace them with a new "multi engine" option.  The "multi engine" feature would be very similar to a lash-up, but it would not adjust the sound, lighting, and coupler operations of the constituent engines.  That would make the order of the engine roster static, so you would get use to where your engines are in the roster pretty quick. 

David Minarik posted:

I believe the lashup feature creates a subset engine list and uses an 'ALL' feature.  Dave Hikel?

That's correct Dave.  The "ALL engine" feature and "lash-ups" are handled in almost an identical fashion in software.  I mentioned above that lash-ups use address 100 to talk to the TIU.  The ALL engine feature uses address 101.  The difference is that the TIU adjusts the commands on lash-ups.  You can sometimes see these extra commands as a lash-up operates.  Somethings are quite obvious when you first create the lash-up.  For instance, the bell and horn/whistle sound volumes are set to 0 on all but the lead engine.  But even during regular operations things still get modified.  The most noticeable manifestation is the headlights.   Let's say you're operating two diesel engines as a lashup, with the head engine pointed forward and the tail engine backwards.  When traveling forward the front headlight of the head engine is on and both headlights on the tail engine are off.  When you hit the direction button, the TIU (not the remote or app) adds several commands.  The first commands sent are the direction commands.  The head engine is sent a reverse command while the tail engine is sent a forward command (because it's pointed backwards in the lash-up).  Then the TIU sends the commands to turn off the headlight on the head engine and turn on the headlight on the tail engine.  It takes a fraction of a second for the direction commands to get processed before the headlight commands are executed.  As a result, the rear headlight on the head engine will briefly turn on and then go dark.  The ALL engine feature communicates the constituent engines to the TIU in the same way as lash-ups, but doesn't include the extra commands.