MTH DCS WIU

Do you think that software costs nothing to develop or maintain and update?

The initial app is free to give you a taste of what the app does.

Then, you have the option to either pay a little more ($4.95) for complete individual engine control, or a further $20.00 for control over accessories, switch tracks, TMCC, lashups, and all of the other DCS features and functions.

Do you need your cell phone or Andriod or Tablet to use it? If so that might be the answer, it's your I-net provider charging you.

Looks like Barry B. gave the answer.

Lee Fritz

One more thing...an analogy.

You buy a PC and get some basic software free. Then, you pay additional to purchase applications for additional capability.

You buy the WIU and get the free app at no charge. Then, you pay more for additional capability.

The only difference is that the additional app features and functions max out at $24.95. Have yo looked at the price of any its Adobe products lately?  

Hello Barry

I still have my old iPhone that I no longer use. Will that work ? or do I need to activate it?

Thank you

Clem k 

I see nothing wrong with MTH's pricing on the App.  Unlike Lionel's iCab, at least you have a version you can try before you buy. 

I don't see why every one wants something for nothing.  Folks pay so much more for less and you don't ever hear a peep.

Barry..is this a 1 time purchase at $25?

None of the apps that are being developed and offered by Lionel or MTH are dependent on the user having cellular data service activated on your cell or tablet.  As long as your built-in wifi can connect to the internet via wireless router to download the app and have your personal local area network for your wireless train control set up then it should be no problem.

Typically ...Software always cost more then the hardware...take a look at your cable companies today...they give you all the hardware for FREE (modem, cable box, router)...but you do pay for the service and software...same as cel phones...you can get a for FREE phone...but it's useless unless you pay for service...I would like for the cost of the WIU to be cheaper..but then again I do not see how MTH would make much money for any service or software costs....I think the pricing is pretty fair..and once I shell out my $25.00 for the software there will be no other additional costs...as least I hope not....

I don't mind paying for the application.  That's how software development companies make their money.  I'm more concerned with the access point.  The technology seems antiquated.  I get it.....it's what needed to happen in order to work with the older DCS technology.    However; I was hoping to see a change with the technology inside the locomotive.   I'd rather have my wireless device communicate directly with the locomotive.  

Did you see what the Lionel app cost?  the MTH app is a bargain in comparison.

Yes, I understand that the software costs money to develop (i'm pretty sure that was clear in the first post). What I don't understand is why the cost of the system isn't rolled into the initial hardware purchase? This is similar to buying a calculator, and then having to pay for the software that controls the calculator. Or when you buy your TV, you don't pay for the cost of the hardware and separately for the cost of the software that makes it work. Yes there are 3rd party applications that you can pay extra for, but that model doesn't exist here. I've actually developed cross-platform mobile applications, and gone through all the process and approvals that Apple (and to a MUCH less extent Android) force you to go through.

What I also don't quite get is that these features are built into the DCS remote natively, you didn't pay separately for that? So what gives here? Who is going to purchase WIU, and never download the software?

To me it does not follow the hardware-software model. I'm purchasing hardware that has to be controlled by software from a phone. The software doesn't do squat without the hardware. You see this model in everything for electronics already. To me it doesn't make sense. To put it another way, when iOS 8 came out or Lollipop, you didn't pay for the software on your phone.

I'm more wondering if MTH ever explained why they set it up this way? 

Bobby



 

I had the pleasure of using it on a beta testers layout, it is so user friendly and a big step forward. I pre ordered my WIU from Nassau Hobby, can't wait to hook it up. 

My Dad used to say, "live in hope and you'll die in despair."  So I deal with what is, not what could be.

Barry,

Assuming you have a LED/Plasma TV, yes you get the software that allows your TV to turn all the digital data into a picture on the screen. Cable service isn't required for your TV to function- at all. You can hook up a DVD player, which also comes with the software that allows data to be interpreted and displayed, which is all wrapped up and bundled together. You don't pay extra for the decoding and encoding software for these devices.

In the end, none of this matters, and the tone of this thread is clearly going south. All I want to know is if MTH ever provided a rationale for the reason they structured the WIU software the way they did? If they did, some information to where I can find that would be wonderful, if not a simple "No" will suffice.

Cordially,

Bobby

What about all your friends that come over and haven't purchased the WUI but want to run trains?  Should they get a free copy? They didn't buy any hardware.

I really see this as a non issue.  MTH has done a nice job at setting 3 levels to which one can get the App, one of them being free.

Bobby,

Assuming you have a LED/Plasma TV, yes you get the software that allows your TV to turn all the digital data into a picture on the screen. Cable service isn't required for your TV to function- at all. You can hook up a DVD player, which also comes with the software that allows data to be interpreted and displayed, which is all wrapped up and bundled together. You don't pay extra for the decoding and encoding software for these devices.

Are you just being argumentative or do you truly not "get" it?

You derive no value from hardware such as your TV unless you add some sort of content to it, via either purchased DVD movies, a paid subscription to cable or satellite providers, or suffer through commercial advertisements. Content is like software - it costs money to make. The only difference is that, unlike content, software also costs money to maintain.

Ditto for computers, aiming systems or just about anything else that exists in the world of consumer electronics, of which model railroading is a part.

It's a case of TANSTAAFL - "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch!

I'm done here...

MartyE,

Excellent point. You're right, in that case, they should have to pay. But that scenario is easily solved through having product authorization codes included in your hardware purchase. That might have additional software development costs, so maybe MTH decided at that point that it was just cheaper and easier to make people pay separately? That's why i'm curious if MTH ever talked about any of this?

Of course, I have concerns on what will happen when the next mobile OS version comes out. How fast will MTH update the app? Will they charge for it? How many backdated versions is the application stable for? Do I get admin control over my railroad- can I lock-out guests from having switch control? Lot's of questions. Hope that doesn't offend anyone.

Bobby

They will not make you pay again for an updated App because IOS changed.

I also asked about an "Administrator" type functionality at the DCS meeting at York.  The reply was if they have the $24 premium app they can get to the stuff you wouldn't want them to have.  The solution is let them get the $5 app.  Wasn't the answer I wanted but I guess there are limitations to everything.

Interesting point about a authorization code with the WIU.  Because at that point they could increase the cost by say...$24 and we'd never be the wiser.

Your tone in addressing my comments is out of line, and several others in this thread. I don't need to be patronized with statements that things cost money to make, or high-school level macro-economic quotes. Many of us on this forum are adults, and we all understand these things. People wonder why younger generations don't get so involved in this hobby, and I firmly believe that it is the pure amount of vitriol that comes out of it. You go to any video game community, and you'll find a hobby that's inclusive and supporting of members, no matter what their skill level, knowledge, or status is within it. Note to self: never ask a question regarding the rationality of any of the manufacturers. 

Bobby

Some food for thought;

I like this model.  With the addition of the WIU, the DCS product line very flexible.  Which allows for people to customize if for whatever they want/need.  And it allows for those new to the hobby to ease into it without having to make a big upfront financial commitment.  In my opinion, the cost of the app(s) is independent of the WIU and is there to pay for the R&D that has already been done and will continue to be done.  

Hello Bobby, You can still use your DCS handheld. It has all of the features that the Wifi app doesn't have. You shouldn't get upset about the comments on this blog. you still have several choices, either the WiFi apps or the DCS handheld......rogerw.

Hello Bobby, try to look at the Wifi apps as being the DCS handheld, TIU and AIU. When you purchased the handheld and TIU, you could control all engine functions but not switches and accessories via DCS. You would have to purchase the AIU to have your switches and accessories function with DCS. Also purchasing the the WIFI app (premium) is the same as purchasing an extra DCS handheld (handheld $169.95 vs. premium WiFi app $24.00). My only concern (which will not hinder me from using the WiFi app) is when MTH does an upgrade to the app, will we have to pay extra for the upgrade?? When MTH releases an upgrade for DCS, we didn't have to pay for it. I'm wondering will that change now because of the WiFi apps.....................rogerw.

Thanks MartyE!!.................rogerw.

I don't understand the need for a WIU as most all homes have a computer and a WiFi network.

All TIU's have a computer interface. Why not utilize the existing hardware by just releasing a program instead of more hardware? This is how it's done in the DCC world. 

I don't really see this any differently than MTH offering the DCS Remote Commander with a starter set to control your trains with and giving you the option to upgrade to the full DCS system to take advantage of the complete DCS feature set that's included with the basic set at a later time, should you choose to do so. Some are perfectly happy with the Remote Commander and don't want the full DCS system, which they are not forced to purchase.

The wifi unit is just an interface to allow the apps to control the trains. I doubt that it needs an app to control it specifically. MTH is providing options for all different levels of users. Some users will be happy with the free app, some will be happy with the $4.99 app and some will want the $25 app. If I end up being happy with the free app, why should I have to pay for the $25 app so it can be included with the wifi unit? Personally, I like the choices and think MTH has provided that for everyone.

One reason why I'm happy that MTH is releasing the WiFi app is when my train club goes to shows to operate our club layout, I don't have to worry about adding engines to my handheld. Each club member can download the free app, add their engine to their mobile device and run their own engine on the layout!!!

The need for the WIU is because the TIU doesn't have a built in WiFi adapter.... Additionally, it provides a separate network for those that want that or don't have one.... 

The only thing I don't like about the free application is that it only allows you to control 1 engine. If I wanted to control only 1 engine, then why would I buy a command system in the first place?

From my understanding you still need to buy a TIU, the WIU, and the $20 application if you want the whole kit and kaboodle (unless you have the TIU already). It's not a deal breaker by any means, it's just annoying to have to buy into the whole hardware system, and then get another charge to control said hardware. Of course, it'd be nice if they allowed multiple 3rd party application developers to come in here and come up with their own applications to run your trains, but we know that will never happen. 

What i'm curious about is that if I buy the $4.99 application in the beginning, do I get to upgrade to the premium version for $15.01, or do I have to pay $20? If that's the case, let me have my 99 engines for $4.99 (or $10), and then let me pay for the switch and accessory control separately. Again, I think what MTH is doing is GREAT, but they've done some things with this that kind of make me scratch my head. And my guess is we will see MTH tweak that structure over time. Of course, in O-gauge, where we spend $80 here, $1200 there, what's another $20?

Bobby

The free application is perfect for guests to your layout - you don't want them to have access to everything.... If you buy the $4.99 app, you only pay for the incremental difference to upgrade to the bigger one..... The bigger one will include unannounced new features that will not be retrofitted to the DCS remote..... From playing with this, the ap is easier to use than the DCS remote - the speed control is easier; we have a key board now; and the menu trees are shorter and wider - less hunting - less pushing buttons.... 

Steve,

Thanks for the (always) helpful information- access to unannounced features would be a huge reason to go premium. I downloaded the free application just to poke around inside of it, and is definitely a much better way to organize everything. I'm sure the scaling for larger tablets and such will be better for the older and wiser members of the hobby as well.

Bobby

Joeceleb,

I did not write those comments....you got the wrong guy.. 

Apologies, it was "Bobby" and I've changed the post to reflect that.

MartyE,

You are correct on that, my error. I just went and took a look at the catalog, and it does state that it is limited control of 3 engines (not sure what the definition of limited control is though).

Barry,

In the original post I asked if anyone knew why the software development cost was not rolled into the hardware development cost. I never stated that the software should have zero cost or be free (no matter how much you continued to insist that is what I meant), I questioned why MTH made the decision to offer the software and hardware costs separately instead of bundled together. Since in this case MTH is both software developer and hardware developer, and it is a product meant to be paired together, to me that makes sense. 

I guess I appreciate the sentiment that it caused you great pains not to resort of ad hominem personal attacks against a fellow hobbyist? That's all pretty backhanded, and passive-aggressive, but okay.

As a consumer I have every right to seek clarification regarding MTH business practices, that doesn't necessarily mean that I will get that clarification, and I never stated that I was entitled to said information. I clearly stated, and restated several times, that the direction that I thought MTH was heading in was a great step forward for the hobby, so i'm not sure how that can be considered as my interpretation of a great injustice?

Honestly Barry, I don't know you, I don't have anything against you personally. I apologize if the tone of my posts was taken negatively, it was certainly not the intent. I think it's time to let bygones be bygones, and drop it.

Bobby

Bobby,

I never stated that the software should have zero cost or be free

Really? Your initial post stated:

But I don't understand why there is this structured pricing tier for the phone application? To me,this leaves a somewhat bitter taste in my mouth. The phone application does nothing without the hardware, so why is the phone software development cost not rolled into the purchase of the hardware? Furthermore, I'm now somewhat concerned that this opens the door to "micro-transactions" in model railroading (i.e. "new bell ringing sequence- $0.99").To me, I bought the hardware which should come with software to control the hardware, why am I now paying $4.99 or $25 to use it?

That sure sounds like you think the software should be free...

I, and I believe others, get the same impression.

Barry,

I can totally see how you would think that I meant that the software should be free, if you only take into consideration this sentence: "To me, I bought the hardware which should come with software to control the hardware, why am I now paying $4.99 or $25 to use it?" However, I prefaced that sentence with "why is the phone software development cost not rolled into the purchase of the hardware?". Software development cost being rolled into the purchase of the hardware, is in no way an implication that the software is free, if anything it is an affirmative statement that there is a software development cost. It is itself more of a suggestion on how MTH could have alternatively approached the cost. Obviously the folks over at MTH didn't pursue that option, and I was curious if MTH had ever said why they decided not to do that.

MartyE, brought up a great point that some of your buddies might not have bought the hardware, but they would get to enjoy it free of charge. And I acknowledged that point, as well. 

All I can give you is a clarification of my intent, and an apology that things turned out the way they did. If you want any more than that, I can't give it to you.   

Bobby

Bobby,

You said what you said, and I responded to what you said.

I'm done here.