MTH Ives Train Catalog 2014

The Black Diamond looks terrific.....are they saying it's the biggest standard gauge steamer ever (bigger than a 400E?)

indydanny

Excellent news!!!  As a Standard Gauge newbie, I have both the National Ltd and Black Diamond trains on my 2014 wish-list.  That National Limited is a definite.  

David

Did anyone see the water tanks on the back page?  Interesting!  My Standard Gauge Railroad needs some passenger revenue so I am thinking about that Black Diamond set.  I really like the recent tinplate Empire State Express that was just released.  THAT is a stunning train!  Although, I really like that Black Diamond too.  Yup....This is the best time to be in the tinplate hobby!

Yes... It would seem the $$$ I didn't spend on a Big Boy, I'll admittedly be spending on one of the upcoming Ives sets!  

David

The water tank isn't exactly new from MTH…more of a reissue, but also available with PRR decoration.  I have the earlier "Ives Railway Lines" water tank offered by MTH on my tinplate layout.  Bought it from a fellow forum member.

Wow, I love those water towers.  I know what originals can go for, but $180 is a little steep.  Anyone know if there will be a LCT catalog, or is this the tinplate offering this year?  I see there are also tinplate pages in the RTR catalog as well. I was hoping for some accessories to the armored set.

I remember that! And what a steal it was!  Fast fingers and a sharp eye wins out every time!

I rather fancy one of the Dorfan sets. More unusual and the reproduction Dorfan cars have the signature feature of the seated passengers. In Traditional, of course.

A negative with these sets is that MTH's reproduction of the steam engine is fashioned from sheet metal rather than cast. Cast would have a 'feel' and 'look' closer to the originals. Many of the purists among the Ives aficionados would also gently suggest that the reproduction Ives sets are not copies of true Ives, but are 'transition'. Nonetheless, some appealing offerings.

Bob

Should be interesting to see how the 2014 locomotives are produced. 

As a point of price comparison... when the Standard Gauge National Limited was last offered in 2008, it was offered as a complete set (locomotive with 4 cars) for $1499.  In 2014, the train is being offered as a separate-sale loco at $999 along with a separate-sale 4-car set at $899.  So that's a not-so-subtle $400 INCREASE in just a shade over 5 years' time.    Hopefully, at the very least, the production quality will be equivalent to -- if not perhaps better than (i.e., more features?) -- the 2008 issue.  If "folks in the know" are concluding that MTH found a cheaper way to make the locomotive(s), then what else would account for the blanket $400 MSRP increase in the overall set price?    Chinese labor???  MTH profits??? 

David

I thought I read somewhere here in another thread where MTH would have printed copies of the 2014 LCT catalog available on May 4th or thereabouts.  Hopefully, they'll have digital content posted online earlier -- and perhaps even a few production samples available at York.  That would be nice.

David

That made me look twice too.  And perhaps folks who already own one can comment further.  But from the catalog descriptions, the 1134 comes in at 26.25", while the 400E is a shade over 32".

David

The text in the catalog indicates otherwise. Sincerely hope that you are correct and the text is not.

Thanks for the info.

Bob

The "biggest ever" claim was from the Ives advertisements back in the day.  The 1134 came out in 1928, several years before the Lionel 400 (or the 392 for that matter) appeared in the 1930's.  It was true at the time, but soon superceded. The 1134 is much smaller than either of the big Lionel engines.

You all should note that what is featured in this MTH flyer as the "Black Diamond" set in fact is not.

Until now, MTH has been pretty good in getting their Ives reproductions right.  This one, however, they have messed up.  They are calling it the Black Diamond and it is not.  The Black Diamond was from 1929, and consisted of the long and low 19" American Flyer-bodied passenger cars.  

The one in this 2014 MTH flyer uses the later, 1930, Lionel-bodied (418) cars in black and red.  In the original, this set was called "The Chief". (same cars as used in the blue and red "National Limited" set).  They are a shorter, taller car with clerestory windows and have an entirely different look from the Black Diamond Flyer cars.

Nice set, but it is definitely not the Black Diamond.  Too bad MTH has not kept consistent, this is going to lead to a lot of misinformation and confusion.

Here's the Black Diamond with the Flyer cars:

Thanks for the info, hojack.  VERY nice tinplate layout!!! 

My only new purchase this year was the Empire State Express which is OUTSTANDING! I even let the LCCA Goliath go by for that purchase. Now Mike has released the new Ives Catalog; I see a Black Diamond in my future. I gave up all my modern O Gauge for tinplate ten years ago and haven't looked back. There is something about tinplate that just makes me relax and smile, I can't explain it. As far as I know, there should be a new Lionel Tinplate catalog released at York this year. 

They messed up with the Black Diamond set. The cars are from the 4 car Chief set made in 1930. However, the engine is from the Black Diamond set and maybe the circus set. The engine has the headlight over the smokebox and a matte finish. The engine for the Chief set would be from 1930 and have the headlight in the smoke box and a gloss black finish.

I took my information from the Greenburg book. In the book they say the Lionel 418 cars came in four car sets like the National Limited and Olympian sets. There book shows the Chief set as a 3 car set in the photo. Maybe, the new book will clarify this.

Photos of big black engines for size comparison. 400, 392 and 1134. The 1134 in the photo should be the correct engine for the Chief cars. Wow do these pictures stink. at least you can see the size difference. Note how big all of them are compared to the dryer.

Thanks for that size comparison. I knew the 400 was supposed to be big but I didn't realize it was that much larger! Now what would it look like in pink?

The 1134 is still a really big engine.

MTH should think about remaking some of the Ives accessories, Like the shortie 83 traffic blinker and the Banjo signal, since finding an original in working condition is next-to-impossible.

Hojack,

Thanks for the info on the Black Diamond.  I also have the original MTH set.  I guess that I'll just have to "pretend".

How was your winter.need I ask?  I'll be heading your way a little later to fish out of Clayton.  I always look forward to that trip.

Norm

 I understand that if you want to pre-order the deadline is May 2. Doesn't give much time to decide between items in the 2014 LCT and the new MTH offerings. The National set looks very very nice. It screams toy trains and simpler times. There is just something about these things that make you smile. Normally I like to look at things a couple of months or wait to see the actual item. Maybe not this time though.

Norm, I was going to head over to Alex Bay on my way down to York later this month, but I just got a call from a friend in that neck of the woods and as of today the ice is not out of the lake, so there's not much point.  I'll wait and plan a mid-May trip to Hojack country. Probably hit the height of black fly season.

Phil, that gives me an idea… I'll have to try my CMT camelback on the Black Diamond cars, see how they look!

David

David,

Years ago we just couldn't wait for that ice to move out.  In those days we went out of Sandy Pond into Mexico Bay.  We'd drag Alpena Diamonds,Locolures and other lures in about 8' of water and knock 'em dead. 

Norm

That's precisely why my toy train interests shifted to Standard Gauge last year.  I found the toy-like charm to be irresistible!  

David

I'm holding out for my favorite, the Ives Prosperity Special.

On their website they have the words "2014 Uncataloged Ives Catalog Released".