Its been a few years now since the whole 3 rail "more scale like" coupler issue surfaced.
Something that operates more along a Kadee line would be great.
Is this a dead issue?
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Pretty much. The issue came up at York last year. When asked about it, there were only a few people in the room who even used scale couplers and we didn't care about electronic uncoupling of the locomotives. That doesn't mean that there are people out there who would like them, but there hasn't been a lot of demand to MTH marketing to pursue it.
If the issue comes up again, I'll report back.
And it wouldn't fit what we've already got, so, a customer issue. It takes two to tango, and they have to do the same dance. I know - some O-gauge and some Kadees get along, but this is hit-and-miss, unreliable and pretty wierd-looking.
A "compromise" size would still be too big, so not worth the trouble.
The key is to embrace the O-gauge knuckle coupler; so long as there is a middle rail, etc, etc...there is only so far that "realism" need go - or can go. This is why "3-rail Scale", as a stand-alone category, makes less sense to me than to some others.
Give in. Embrace the Big Knuckle. It will only hurt for a little while. I don't prefer them, either, but I've been happier since my capitulation, years ago.
Rats.
D500 posted:And it wouldn't fit what we've already got, so, a customer issue. It takes two to tango, and they have to do the same dance. I know - some O-gauge and some Kadees get along, but this is hit-and-miss, unreliable and pretty wierd-looking.
A "compromise" size would still be too big, so not worth the trouble.
The key is to embrace the O-gauge knuckle coupler; so long as there is a middle rail, etc, etc...there is only so far that "realism" need go - or can go. This is why "3-rail Scale", as a stand-alone category, makes less sense to me than to some others.
Give in. Embrace the Big Knuckle. It will only hurt for a little while. I don't prefer them, either, but I've been happier since my capitulation, years ago.
Or give up and go 2 rail with Kadees and see what you've been missing 
D500 posted:And it wouldn't fit what we've already got, so, a customer issue. It takes two to tango, and they have to do the same dance. I know - some O-gauge and some Kadees get along, but this is hit-and-miss, unreliable and pretty wierd-looking.
The Kadee #805 O Scale couplers work a LOT better with the "claw" couplers that you make out.
A "compromise" size would still be too big, so not worth the trouble.
The key is to embrace the O-gauge knuckle coupler; so long as there is a middle rail, etc, etc...there is only so far that "realism" need go - or can go. This is why "3-rail Scale", as a stand-alone category, makes less sense to me than to some others.
Apparently YOU are in the minority, as even Lionel is now "embracing" the 3-Rail SCALE concept with Kadee body mount capabilities on many of their newest piece of rolling stock.
Give in. Embrace the Big Knuckle. It will only hurt for a little while.
No way in he$$! I gave up on the "claws" years ago, as most of all I got sick and tired of long freight trains coming uncoupled and also having to bang cars together in order for that darned "claw" to finally close & latch.
I don't prefer them, either, but I've been happier since my capitulation, years ago.
Now to answer the original poster's question:
MTH has scale size electro-couplers on the HO line of locomotives, and they work very well. The MTH R&D Dept. has NOT been able to obtain consistent RELIABLE operation from the O Scale size elector-coupler on their Premier line of locomotives. With the Proto 2 and Proto 3 models having the 3 volt boards, there simply is insufficient current capabilities to consistently and reliably operate the O Scale electro-coupler.
Hot Water posted:Now to answer the original poster's question:
MTH has scale size electro-couplers on the HO line of locomotives, and they work very well. The MTH R&D Dept. has NOT been able to obtain consistent RELIABLE operation from the O Scale size elector-coupler on their Premier line of locomotives. With the Proto 2 and Proto 3 models having the 3 volt boards, there simply is insufficient current capabilities to consistently and reliably operate the O Scale electro-coupler.
MTH couldn't get them to work in S Scale, either. The effort forced a delay in the release of the former SHS F3's.
Rusty
I would much prefer Kadee or a Kadee "like or compatible" coupler to the claws. The claws are too hard to couple and uncouple if you like switching. I like to switch cars so it is a frustration for me. Most of my 3 rail friends, however, are loop runners and their consists never change when they are running so having better couplers is probably a moot issue.
NH Joe
I've tried O gauge Kadees and Number 1 gauge Kadees , Something sized in the middle would be perfect . I like the feather touch coupling but never really had any success uncoupling with either.
BTW number 1 gauge Kadeees mate perfectly with the Lobster claw (funny term) but it's a very difficult install ,( bending & cutting the uncoupling hose ).
I understand the want but I grew up with Lionel's coupler so doesn't bother me. A new coupler would need to work with the old so it's probably not going to happen anytime soon.
With the Proto 2 and Proto 3 models having the 3 volt boards, there simply is insufficient current capabilities to consistently and reliably operate the O Scale electro-coupler.
Voltage is not an issue; 3 volts is the operating voltage of the processor boards etc. The output of these boards can easily interface to other voltages typically through an FET. Logic voltage (3 volts) into the FET and what ever the FET is rated for on the output side.
maybe someone should look into how that 2rail O scaler is putting remote operating Kadee type couplers in all is rolling stock. Using muscle wire. It was mentioned in the thread about super magnets for Kadee uncoupling.
I have a 5 engine 2 rail all premiere mu. I morphed in a mth 3 rail electro coupler in the last engine(unpowered) which is triggered by the 4th engine(ps3 powered) via a tether . Now i can uncouple via DCS remote without leaving my couch.
I can't believe that they can't build one with the solenoid that is used in the claws? I had hoped that if it worked in S scale, we would see it in O. I also was hoping to see some servo operating a KD that would interface with the MTH boards.
I would rather have all KD, than any claws.
It's not voltage or current that's the issue, I have no idea where that idea comes from. There's more than enough voltage and current in a command locomotive to operate a coupler.
I suspect it's either lack of demand or they just haven't devoted the resources to the project. I believe it was Atlas that had a scale electrocoupler, don't know what ever happened to that one. I still have a couple in my parts box, they had a pretty kludgy box to mount them. They work with standard TMCC coupler outputs.
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I guess I'd even be happy with a 3 rail set of trucks from MTH that I could simply unscrew the coupler part, very similar to how the Weaver trucks were like.
Lack of demand …………yup. Most 3 railers are loop runners. no need to do any switching. No care about the force needed to couple cars.
Get used to it……yup
You can tune the lobster claw to couple very easily, especially the electrocouplers.
Perhaps the "lobster claw" coupler head could be made somewhat less bulky in appearance, while still maintaining compatibility with conventional 3-rail knuckle couplers. But 3-rail also has oversize rail and oversize wheel flanges from the toy-train heritage. O-gauge railroading is already fractured into scale and 3-rail categories. It would just cause additional problems to further fracture 3-rail railroading with an incompatible "semi-scale" coupler.
That said, it might be possible to slightly downsize the usual 3-rail couplers and wheel flanges for a better appearance, while still maintaining operational compatibility with the usual 3-rail trains as they have existed over the last 70 years. It would be better if an industry standard could be developed for that sort of change. The NMRA has done a good job of developing standards for scale modelers, but unfortunately they don't get involved with the 3-rail part of the hobby.
Well, MTH tried that with the 2-rail/3-rail steamers. I had a Mikado that refused to run on Fastrack or tubular track, but ran fine on Atlas track. The wheels are somewhere between 2-rail flanges and 3-rail flanges, but obviously not big enough for rounded track profiles.
Until they solve that issue, your idea isn't going to make any headway.
gunrunnerjohn posted:You can tune the lobster claw to couple very easily, especially the electrocouplers.
I'd love to give that a try John, what do I need to do?
"Or give up and go 2 rail with Kadees and see what you've been missing "
In what barn?
D500 posted:"Or give up and go 2 rail with Kadees and see what you've been missing
In what barn?
Yes, exactly. 2-rail O-scale needs curve radii MUCH larger! At least twice as large as 3-rail, for sure.
D500 posted:"Or give up and go 2 rail with Kadees and see what you've been missing
In what barn?
Really, why not give it a rest? 
Bluegill1 posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:You can tune the lobster claw to couple very easily, especially the electrocouplers.
I'd love to give that a try John, what do I need to do?
Basically, you remove the coupler knuckle and smooth the mating surfaces. It's been discussed here before. I have done some that will couple with very little force with just a few minutes work. Obviously, you have to have a supply of new rivets and a tool to set them to put the knuckle back on.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Bluegill1 posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:You can tune the lobster claw to couple very easily, especially the electrocouplers.
I'd love to give that a try John, what do I need to do?
Basically, you remove the coupler knuckle and smooth the mating surfaces. It's been discussed here before. I have done some that will couple with very little force with just a few minutes work. Obviously, you have to have a supply of new rivets and a tool to set them to put the knuckle back on.
John,
I've checked Boxcar Bill's and your old post, and while this is discussed a lot there are no specifics on how to do it. Since I've never done any riveting, what rivet tool and size rivets are used? Thanks.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Bluegill1 posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:You can tune the lobster claw to couple very easily, especially the electrocouplers.
I'd love to give that a try John, what do I need to do?
Basically, you remove the coupler knuckle and smooth the mating surfaces. It's been discussed here before. I have done some that will couple with very little force with just a few minutes work. Obviously, you have to have a supply of new rivets and a tool to set them to put the knuckle back on.
I assume drill out the rivet, smooth out the mating surface( use a fine round file?
perhaps super fine grit sandpaper?)
are you talking where the knuckle mates with the knuckle cavity? Meaning where it was just removed?
do I need new coupler springs with less tension or just reuse the existing springs?
do I need to put a bit of powdered graphite on those mating surfaces?
as asked previous, are all coupler rivets the same, just pick some up at a train show, or should I get specific manufacturer ones, i.e.... MTH
is there a specific small rivet tool you use?
Thanks for your help.
Can't wait for the day they make a scale coupler that works with dcs and legacy..
CAPPilot posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:Bluegill1 posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:You can tune the lobster claw to couple very easily, especially the electrocouplers.
I'd love to give that a try John, what do I need to do?
Basically, you remove the coupler knuckle and smooth the mating surfaces. It's been discussed here before. I have done some that will couple with very little force with just a few minutes work. Obviously, you have to have a supply of new rivets and a tool to set them to put the knuckle back on.
John,
I've checked Boxcar Bill's and your old post, and while this is discussed a lot there are no specifics on how to do it. Since I've never done any riveting, what rivet tool and size rivets are used? Thanks.
After all that work, on every single piece of rolling stock one owns, you are still left with a SERIOUSLY oversize coupler that STILL requires too much contact pressure to couple, close the knuckle, and latch the mechanism (and as stated, the 'fix' only applies to electro-couplers anyway). Not to mention that the "clay" was designed to negotiate 027 curves with seriously large spacing between each and every car. What method is recommended for those folks with larger curves to close the gap between cars?
Much of the above sounds to me like more work than just up-grading to "more scale like" Kadee couplers.
For those that think MTH's Ho electro coupler works, think again. They are terrible, they look odd and they don't work with allot of Ho couplers. I replace them all with Kadee.
Another thing when you have two diesel engines that you like to run back to back they won't stay coupled when going around a curve. I wish MTH would stop using them.
