MTH PS/1 Speakers 4 Ohm?

@Trainlover9943 posted:

Anybody replaced a PS/1 speaker with a 4 ohm, 3 watt or a 4 ohm, 5 watt speaker. I saw a few videos on it and it did work. I'd be curious to see in person how much of a difference there is in sound. https://youtu.be/pNDWiE1rqg4&n...youtu.be/lt4lei8IqI0

I have noticed the sound improvement depends on the sound file. Certain sound files just don't have the power.

@Sid's Trains posted:

I have noticed the sound improvement depends on the sound file. Certain sound files just don't have the power.

Could be. I never thought of that. 

@Trainlover9943 posted:

Could be. I never thought of that. 

I tried the speaker replacement in that J I have, no difference. Volume is decent to begin with, but the volume didn't change much. On the other hand my T1 duplex however from the factory is extremely loud, bassy, and powerful. No need to change the speaker in it.

The power rating of a driver has little to do with its volume output. Its the sensitivity rating that tells you how loud it is for a given power in. Usually db per 1 watt in. The higher number the better. Power rating just tells you how much power the voice coil can handle before being damaged. Given Lionel and MTH power amps only output 1 -1 1/2 watts there is no point in putting a 5w speaker in place of the existing one.

Pete

@Sid's Trains posted:

I tried the speaker replacement in that J I have, no difference. Volume is decent to begin with, but the volume didn't change much. On the other hand my T1 duplex however from the factory is extremely loud, bassy, and powerful. No need to change the speaker in it.

Ah cool. Yeah, that T1 I think was hands down the best sounding PS/1 engine. So you tried a 4 ohm in the J? 

@Trainlover9943 posted:

Ah cool. Yeah, that T1 I think was hands down the best sounding PS/1 engine. So you tried a 4 ohm in the J? 

Yeah, it didn't do anything. I just put the factory speaker back in when it didn't work. Yeah, the T1 is an amazing locomotive.

@Sid's Trains posted:

Yeah, it didn't do anything. I just put the factory speaker back in when it didn't work. 

So then what was Tommy's point of putting the 4 ohm speaker in? 

The amplifier on the board is rated for an 8 ohm speaker, a 4 ohm speaker will be louder, and likely with more distortion.  It'll also draw more power and likely shorten the life of the amplifier chip.

If you want more volume, use more efficient speakers.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The amplifier on the board is rated for an 8 ohm speaker, a 4 ohm speaker will be louder, and likely with more distortion.  It'll also draw more power and likely shorten the life of the amplifier chip.

If you want more volume, use more efficient speakers.

What would be the best speaker to use in a PS/1 engine to give you the best sound quality? I'd guess a great quality speaker with an enclosure would make the thing sound like no bodys business! 

If you really want good sound, consider two 16 ohm in parallel or two 4 ohm speakers in series.  As for which speaker, I just go shopping when I need a speaker and read the specs.  Frequently the size dictates what I can use.  Also, the enclosure is all important, it can make a poor speaker sound better than a good speaker without the enclosure.

Picking speakers is somewhat hit or miss, you just have to look around and sample until you find something that works for you.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

If you really want good sound, consider two 16 ohm in parallel or two 4 ohm speakers in series.  As for which speaker, I just go shopping when I need a speaker and read the specs.  Frequently the size dictates what I can use.  Also, the enclosure is all important, it can make a poor speaker sound better than a good speaker without the enclosure.

Picking speakers is somewhat hit or miss, you just have to look around and sample until you find something that works for you.

Cool. I'll have to shop around and see what I find. What's the typical size of the speaker used in the steam and diesel engines of this time period? 

Many use 2" (50mm) speakers, but some have smaller diameter speakers, some have oval speakers.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Many use 2" (50mm) speakers, but some have smaller diameter speakers, some have oval speakers.

Ah cool. Thanks. 

One more question John. Where do you go for speakers? Any specific place? 

I've gone to a host of places, Parts Express, Digikey, Aliexpress, and even eBay.  There are tons of sources for speakers, the trick is finding the size and specifications you need.

A lot can be done to improve PS1 speakers. MTH usually used a pretty thin "cracker" speaker that provided very little to no low frequency sound response.  A full range speaker with a little more depth that allows the speaker cone more movement goes a long way in improving sounds.

Adding a speaker baffle if the space allows it also goes a long way in improving sound. Lately I've been using SOLO 2 oz. shot cups as they fit nicely over a 2" speaker.

So what is the efficiency rating of speakers?

@LK posted:

So what is the efficiency rating of speakers?

This:

Pete

FYI, the LM486N is rated for an 8 ohm speaker with a max output power of 1.1W with 1% THD.  If you go to 1.5 watts output, the THD rockets to 10%, in other words, noise and distortion!  It's pretty clear from the data sheet that once you exceed 1.1W or so, the THD skyrockets.

Got to thinking. Since the Lionel fat boy speakers with enclosures sound really good. Could I use just two of those with an enclosure. MILW S-3 for reference. Part #48 

Yep, I've used a number of the Lionel baffles, I have a good sized box of assorted ones that I pick through when I need one.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Yep, I've used a number of the Lionel baffles, I have a good sized box of assorted ones that I pick through when I need one.

Cool. How about the speakers? You used them before? 

Yep, they work quite well.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Yep, they work quite well.

Sweet. I might try those first.