Why are these engines selling so high lately. I know MTH is going out of business but the PS1 engines are selling for almost 90 percent of retail on a certain auction sight. They are doing better than the PS2s
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Just a guess, maybe easier to convert to TMCC?
@Former Member posted:Why are these engines selling so high lately. I know MTH is going out of business but the PS1 engines are selling for almost 90 percent of retail on a certain auction sight. They are doing better than the PS2s
I don’t get it either. It’s at least another $150 or so to convert to some sort of command control. And IIRC the PS1 electronics can be damaged by leaving an old battery in there.
I have noticed this too. I have been looking for PS1's to buy for BlueRail projects. But with the price increases, I might as well buy a PS3 and just run it that way.
I've been particularly looking for SD-40's. There is one on the auction site now that is a PS1 and in the description is says, runs...but sound does not work, $299.
LoL... Really? A PS1 Premier Diesel with no sound for that price? No thank you.
I can't wait for train shows to come back.
Have Fun!
Ron
I think PS-1 engines are more reliable than some PS-2 engines. I noticed a shortage of PS-2 engines on eBay and PS-1 engines' prices have increased, across the board. Lots of the knowledgeable people will say PS-2 boards are at the end of their lives. I don't know why, but PS-1 engines keep rolling along. Go figure. Better components?
And, as they get scarcer, they will become more valuable.
@Former Member posted:Why are these engines selling so high lately. I know MTH is going out of business but the PS1 engines are selling for almost 90 percent of retail on a certain auction sight. They are doing better than the PS2s
Give it time, the prices will return to sanity.
We just finished selling a client's collection...mostly PS1 engines. He's VERY pleased, of course.
But here's a clue/tip. He had disconnected the batteries (unsnapped the batt clip) before putting them in the boxes...quite some time ago. So informed by the client, the first thing we did was install a BCR to check out the functions. 100% success!!!...all PS1 functions operable!!
Just to satisfy my own curiosity, I checked the original batteries with a voltmeter...typically <3.0 volts, all, meaning the electronics would've been scrambled if the batteries were hooked up and new customer simply put the loco on the track expecting success.
So every loco was sold with this information, leaving it up to the buyer to decide whether to equip with a new battery, or, preferably, a BCR. And, yes, for more $$$ than was anticipated.
I have 14 PS1 engines in my own collection, all equipped with BCR's, all 100% functional to this day. To the original post question, I'd say there are some pretty savvy buyers out there, satisfied with the minimal features of PS1.0, who know a good buy when they see it...and will compete to get it!!!!
In the bigger picture...covered in another thread...I believe one of the 'upsides' of the pandemic protocols has been a resurgence in this hobby, and some loosening of cash...and attitudes...towards making purchases therein. Lots of online auction watching/buying going on!!!
Oh, and BTW...that same client said he learned the hard way as a kid from his PW F3's...and a stern rebuke from his own dad!...about storing engines with the batteries not removed! Disconnecting batteries was ingrained in the 'care and feeding' of his trains ever since. (Too bad most of our clients tend to have missed this subtle nugget of protection.
)
Of course, just MHO...nothing more, nothing less.
KD
@Bob Severin posted:I think PS-1 engines are more reliable than some PS-2 engines. I noticed a shortage of PS-2 engines on eBay and PS-1 engines' prices have increased, across the board. Lots of the knowledgeable people will say PS-2 boards are at the end of their lives. I don't know why, but PS-1 engines keep rolling along. Go figure. Better components?
And, as they get scarcer, they will become more valuable.
The early PS2 5V locomotives are the ones with the unreliable boards. The later PS2 3V boards (used around 2004 and up) are very reliable.
I think there are a couple factors at play here:
You see a lot of PS1 stuff for sale because it's older and doesn't have command control capability. It's rare to see the latest and greatest on the auction site.
People are spending more on hobbies so prices have gone up as sellers take advantage.
No train shows for in person selling and an increase in auction site sellers fees drive up the price, so sellers can make a profit.
On YouTube there was a Younger hobbyist who felt that the audio quality was superior and the Proto sound one engines to the later offerings. For me all of the audio in these locomotives is sort of a joke since I build my own vacuum tube audio gear. When I run steam I just throw in a CD of Santa Fe steam locomotive recordings and it’s a way better effect in my opinion.
Okay SWrr, you've got my attention. So, you've got a big Philco radio on your tender playing CD's of railroad sounds, right? Can you post a picture?
Nope. No speaker in the tender. Just a conventional class A single ended vacuum tube amplifier hooked up to a CD player and to real bookshelf speakers. Take a look at the attached amp photo.
Philco, what a joke! Most consumer electronics of the 50s were ridiculous on one level but still offered better fidelity than most modern solid state stuff today.
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Sounds in no way synchronized to the action? No thanks. 
What happens if you run two trains, fire up two CD's?
@Former Member posted:Why are these engines selling so high lately. I know MTH is going out of business but the PS1 engines are selling for almost 90 percent of retail on a certain auction sight. They are doing better than the PS2s
I like PS-1 engines, but only for $200-300 less than a comparable PS-2 or PS-3. Not paying more than about 50% of MSRP for a like-new PS-1. Probably means that I'll sit on the sidelines for awhile, but that's OK.
Tulip mania, anyone?
It's not just the auction site. A LHS got an influx of old O from an estate sale. The PS-1 were all listed at MSPR+, while PS-2 locos were about $200 under MSRP, and freight was $30-50 a car. Now way I'm paying $700 for a RailKing PS-1 Big Boy. He didn't seem to keen when I made a comment about the prices being so high for 20+ year old locos without command.
"Converting", as we say, any engine to another operating system is actually a bit inaccurate - one is actually "simply" replacing the old system - whatever it was - with a new one. You take everything out except the motors and such and the wire leads, then put the new one in.
Now, that is an over-simplification, for sure, but converting a PS1 or PS2 (never did a PS3) to ERR, for example, is about the same.
Correct, my "conversions" start with a stripped chassis with just the mechanics and motor(s), then I start adding bits back in.
If they're overpriced and shipping is too high I just keep browsing. If the best offer feature is enabled, I'll make a offer if they accept fine if not good bye. A couple of times a seller here in Florida had high shipping prices and I asked if he could do better and he did and made the sale.
@Gene H posted:If the best offer feature is enabled, I'll make a offer if they accept fine if not good bye.
Yeah I use the make offer feature frequently. Unrelated to PS1 locos, but there's a guy that has a few LionScale box cars listed for like $300. It said only one, so I offered a reasonable sum for one car. Rejected. Then I sent a message asking if it was for one or a crate of six like they come sometimes. No response. I don't get it.
@rplst8 posted:Yeah I use the make offer feature frequently. Unrelated to PS1 locos, but there's a guy that has a few LionScale box cars listed for like $300. It said only one, so I offered a reasonable sum for one car. Rejected. Then I sent a message asking if it was for one or a crate of six like they come sometimes. No response. I don't get it.
Great story, but I'll bet that your point was lost on the seller. 
I rarely bother with the make offer feature anymore. My experience is that most sellers are stuck on wanting at least 95% of their ridiculous asking price. Make a reasonable offer... crickets...
Prices WILL come back down - be patient.
@Bob Severin posted:I think PS-1 engines are more reliable than some PS-2 engines. I noticed a shortage of PS-2 engines on eBay and PS-1 engines' prices have increased, across the board. Lots of the knowledgeable people will say PS-2 boards are at the end of their lives. I don't know why, but PS-1 engines keep rolling along. Go figure. Better components?
And, as they get scarcer, they will become more valuable.
I tend to agree with you, Bob, because my anecdotal experience with my modest MTH collection is that PS1 has been more consistent and reliable than PS2. I have had 2 lemons with PS2 (2 out of 4), but no PS1 lemons (0 out of 12). But, if the PS2 is not a lemon, it's great (like a PS3).
I have only had 1 PS3 lemon (1 out of 8). The PS3 lemon was a steamer with the new drawbar that I'm not crazy about. I exchanged it for a PS3 diesel that is fine.
I generally love PS3, especially the three PS3 switchers I have that are my favorite locomotives because they run great on DCS.
IMO, PS3 , which runs on DCS, is at least 3 times more valuable to me than any PS1, which can't run on DCS. That is why I splurged when I learned that MTH is closing, so I bought several PS3s last year, including the DCS Remote Control Set and 2 new Z4000s and spent more on trains than I ever did before. The Atlas and MTH deal, the apparent survival of DCS, and the possibility that MTH Railking and steamers may survive, is great news for me.
Arnold
I know this kind of unrelated but the stories about the auction site remind me of an experience I had. I was trying to find a certain hot wheel and I came across this guy who was selling a one of a kind factory error. He wanted a few hundred dollars for it because it was a rare one of a kind but yet he had two for sale
Bob
I think there's a lot more folks at home buying - and a lot more folks at home - looking to make extra $ selling to the un-indoctrinated.
I noticed Pecos has one of his NOS Hudsons listed for $1500. He sold one about two-three years ago for a bit over $300. Three of them sold from a notable online auction house around the same time for $250. Talk about a mark-up for conventional.
What’s a fair price for the PS-1 Amtrak Genesis from the 30-4018-1 Superliner set? I got that set at a train show right before the coronavirus hit. Love the cars but would prefer a PS-3 engine since I use the mighty Remote Commander.
By the way there were only a small number of Proto-1 engines that contained a chip that could scramble. In the Premier line this list included the Shay, the NYC Hudson, the Santa Fe and L&N F-3 units and one or two more. Most Proto-1 engines did NOT have chips that would scramble. I run conventionally and to my way of thinking I would consider buying Proto-1 engines but not consider buying the 5 volt Proto-2 locomotives. Of all the electronics I prefer the 3 volt proto-2 engines. When you run a Proto-3 engine conventionally you have to wait for the capacitors to charge every time you shut it down and then back up.
I have heard it said that the PS1-era MTH engines have metal gears and will run and run, whereas the later ones have nylon gears that wear out or break; have not opened them up to independently verify.
Any engine's electronics will need to be replaced (yes, upgraded is not really accurate) eventually. I used to be able to pick up PS1-era MTH engines at a bargain price a few years ago; no more!
David
I guess it can be the luck of the draw. Out of four PS-1’s I’ve two bad ones due to boards. They were both used.
Alan
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Give it time, the prices will return to sanity.
👏 Same with Tinplate.
@triplex posted:By the way there were only a small number of Proto-1 engines that contained a chip that could scramble. In the Premier line this list included the Shay, the NYC Hudson, the Santa Fe and L&N F-3 units and one or two more. Most Proto-1 engines did NOT have chips that would scramble. I run conventionally and to my way of thinking I would consider buying Proto-1 engines but not consider buying the 5 volt Proto-2 locomotives. Of all the electronics I prefer the 3 volt proto-2 engines. When you run a Proto-3 engine conventionally you have to wait for the capacitors to charge every time you shut it down and then back up.
This is not correct. All PS-1 locomotives could scramble, aka 3 clanks of death, with a low battery. There was a small number of early PS-1 locomotives can also go into a deselect mode. They start up just fine, but won't enter programming or move at all. The only fix for these was new chips. I've had both happen to me with my collection of PS-1 locomotives.
Having a bunch of PS-1's, I bought several of these Reset Kits years ago. I've long since replaced all the batteries with BCRs and only once did I wind up replacing a chip...in an SD-45.
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I have several PS1 engines . Never thought of them as being collectible.
I, too, have had my jaw drop regarding some of the proto 1 prices. While not nearly as outrageous pre-MTH announcement, the prices were still rather high in the months preceding the announcement.
I didn’t get into command until August 2019. Prior to that, I purchased my one and only proto 1- The Amtrak AEM-7 in December of 2018 for a very fair price. With Amtrak being my favorite RR and the AEM-7 being close to my favorite Amtrak loco, it drives me nuts knowing I have such a nice electric that I can’t use in conjunction with the rest of my fleet(as in Proto 2s and 3s and TMCC & Legacy engines) Considering the price of a proto 2 or proto 3 AEM-7, I know it’d be cheaper to “convert” my proto 1 AEM-7 to TMCC rather than selling it and then having to shell out $200 for a proto 2 or proto 3- But I really just want to run a gosh darn Amtrak Lash-up for once and converting to TMCC doesn’t do that. I’ll avoid going on a tangent.
as @AGHRMatt mentioned, I too, don’t view most proto 1, or most modern engines in general, as collectible. Similar to another hobby of mine, unlike the originals that would have historically retained their value, because the successors are superior the older versions prices will go down as their features/tech/what have you fall further behind what is current and especially when they lack compatibility
@Bruce Brown posted:Having a bunch of PS-1's, I bought several of these Reset Kits years ago. I've long since replaced all the batteries with BCRs and only once did I wind up replacing a chip...in an SD-45.
This is only for the 3 clanks of death, doesn't help with the deselect issue. This is the 1st time I've ever seen this kit. I actually could use it on one of my locomotives, but never bother hunting one down as my plan is to convert the locomotive to DCC anyway. But that hasn't happened yet.
When PS1 engines were new, I remember how much their value went up because at the time they were the greatest things, especially ones like the Y6B, the Challengers, and the F-3’s.
It is weird seeing their value start to escalate again, though. Just last week I saw a USRA NYC Pacific go up to almost $500 on one auction site when about 7 years ago I could’ve bought one for less than $350. And another of a C&O steam turbine get almost to its original catalog price.
@Lou1985 posted:The early PS2 5V locomotives are the ones with the unreliable boards. The later PS2 3V boards (used around 2004 and up) are very reliable.
I think there are a couple factors at play here:
You see a lot of PS1 stuff for sale because it's older and doesn't have command control capability. It's rare to see the latest and greatest on the auction site.
People are spending more on hobbies so prices have gone up as sellers take advantage.
No train shows for in person selling and an increase in auction site sellers fees drive up the price, so sellers can make a profit.
PS/1 locomotives used to be my "go-to" source for command upgrades, but I'll just wait until sanity returns to the market.
It may be a while before prices drop.
My theory is two-fold: that people who are either new to the hobby or had never sought PS1 locos suddenly started hunting on eBay for them after the publicity of MTH’s closing, and that some buyers acquired models to flip them in anticipation of a market surge. I know of at least one forum member who has done that with other O gauge trains over the years.
Either way, once the perception is established that a model is worth X amount of dollars (often based on recent sales data), it takes a long time for the market to correct itself. eBay dealers in particular are increasingly content with relisting overpriced items for months.
In some cases, the market doesn’t recede. I remember how, just five years ago, a shapely water bottle figure of Jayne Mansfield used to sell for about $45 routinely on eBay. In a one-year period, prices ballooned, driven by impatient, uninformed bidders. Now, the same half-century-old figure sells for $75 to $100, or more. I saw one sitting at a local antique booth store for $125 recently.
Its not just MTH PS1 engines being listed with high prices, its most all full scale trains. Sellers seem to be indexing their asking price to the price of new trains even though in many instances the items sit there for months or even years.
Deals are still out there but getting harder to find.
Pete
I guess it's a good thing that I have tons of locomotives and rolling stock and don't really need to pay inflated prices to increase my stable of equipment.
I have multiple PS1 and PS2 5 volt board engines. They all run fine. I change the battery every 4 years along with oil/grease and wheel cleaning. All got new speakers in 2013.
I question the electrical current in some areas/homes as being a potential problem. Some areas are prone to spikes and some houses have lights that dim and go bright.
Also how solid is the layout wiring and track? How clean is the track?
It may be that what we don’t see is a bigger cause than what we do see.
