I currently have 4 MTH PS3 GP40's that I run under DCC. Back when I was in 3-rail I used to run DCS and I have to say that PS3 locomotives under DCC run just as well as they do with DCS. Other than no proto-couplers, DCC activates all of the features that DCS does. I prefer DCC over DCS because there are no annoying "Check Track" or "Engine Not Found" messages.

I have an NCE PH10R which is the wireless command set which includes a 10 amp booster. When I build my layout next year I will get another 10 amp booster and "Brutus" power supply - 2 boosters/2 loops, 1 command station.

Good info, thanks! I knew the prices of the NCE starter systems, but Ouch on the boosters. I'd never looked at those before or considered needing more than one. It was just mentioned on the other thread to take a look at the new ESU remote system, not sure I have seen that one? I have been sold on the NCE system for a few years, just haven't bit the bullet on purchasing one as I already have DCS and Legacy.  

catnap posted:

I currently have 4 MTH PS3 GP40's that I run under DCC. Back when I was in 3-rail I used to run DCS and I have to say that PS3 locomotives under DCC run just as well as they do with DCS. Other than no proto-couplers, DCC activates all of the features that DCS does. I prefer DCC over DCS because there are no annoying "Check Track" or "Engine Not Found" messages.

I have an NCE PH10R which is the wireless command set which includes a 10 amp booster. When I build my layout next year I will get another 10 amp booster and "Brutus" power supply - 2 boosters/2 loops, 1 command station.

That's the same reason I like DCC so much. When I issue a command the locomotive responds. Pretty much every time. The once in a rare while it doesn't respond is because it hit some dirty track. No command system will work with dirty track except the Dead Rail stuff. 

I bought the NCE system about 10 years ago. It was cheaper back then. I later on upgraded the system to radio and then I added the Brute. I only have one Booster. I am glad I waited on the radio option because the original NCE radio equipment was not good. They re-engineered their radio stuff and now it is bulletproof like the rest of the system. 

"You can not run your whole layout from one command set." This is not entirely true. Smaller layouts will only need the one Booster. I used to belong to a club that ran this system. They have a very large layout about 60' by 30' with large mainlines. I am not sure how many boosters they have but I don't think it is more than 3 or 4 but this is a large club layout. I can't picture home layouts needing more than 2 or 3 at the most. This is due to 2 rail or 3RS usually having larger curves and thus more of a scale themed track plan where less is more. In a scale atmosphere you usually do not see a spaghetti bowl track plan where the user tries to fit in as many loops as possible. Nothing wrong with those layouts just stating the difference. However you are correct in stating the Boosters are not cheap. Thank God they are a one time expense. 

OTOH, if someone wanted to build a toy train layout with a lot of smoke and incandescent lighting it could really get expensive with the boosters. 

There's a bigger DCC booster on the market in Germany that's rated at 30 Amp intermittent 25 Amp continuous @ 24V on the rails for...get this...$182 + shipping.

http://www.md-electronics.de/de/mxion_control.html

They also sell it as a set with a Lenz command center and Roco throttle for $299 Euros...

 https://mdelectronics.branchbo...erteiler-6000-1.html

My command station came from NCE set at 16.5 volts. Apparently, the NMRA recommends about 16 volts for running O scale on DCC. There is a potentiometer inside that can be adjusted to increase voltage up to 18 volts if necessary. I don't have any lighted cars except for the occasional caboose so 16.5 volts is optimal for my 10' X 30' temporary layout.

I'm going to have 2 loops inside my garage. It's going to be 14' X 19' so I'll add a 2nd booster for the other track. One booster/power supply per loop will provide more than enough power.

30 amps and 24 volts sounds like overkill. I guess if I was pulling heavy trains with lots of lighted cars that may be a consideration.

I have a 4' by 16' layout. I'd use the PH-10R. I have legacy already installed on my layout (Have DCS too but would get rid of it in favor of DCC). I'm using an MRC Pure power transformer. What do I need to buy? A booster? 

Catnap, like you said it will be more than enough power. If you only have two loops and no incandescent lights one booster will be fine. You can also break a layout into districts by adding circuit breakers off of one booster. In other words you could put a circuit breaker for each of your loops with power coming from the same booster. This way if there is a short or derailment on one loop the other loop will not shut down. Just a suggestion. 

Trainlover9943 posted:

I have a 4' by 16' layout. I'd use the PH-10R. I have legacy already installed on my layout (Have DCS too but would get rid of it in favor of DCC). I'm using an MRC Pure power transformer. What do I need to buy? A booster? 

If you purchase the PH-10R it comes with one booster. That system alone might be enough for your entire layout. It depends on how many locomotives you run at the same time and how many incandescent lights you have running off of track power. As long as you have some sort of power supply like a Z4000 you will have everything you need to run the DCC system.  If the PH-10R doesn’t provide enough power you will need a second booster and another power supply. 

One last thing. I also set my DCC system for 16V. I used to use a Postwar ZW set at 16VAC but when I got a deal on the Brute I started using that. I personally would not go higher than 18VAC. 

Hudson J1e posted:

Trainlover9943 posted:

I have a 4' by 16' layout. I'd use the PH-10R. I have legacy already installed on my layout (Have DCS too but would get rid of it in favor of DCC). I'm using an MRC Pure power transformer. What do I need to buy? A booster? 

If you purchase the PH-10R it comes with one booster. That system alone might be enough for your entire layout. It depends on how many locomotives you run at the same time and how many incandescent lights you have running off of track power. As long as you have some sort of power supply like a Z4000 you will have everything you need to run the DCC system.  If the PH-10R doesn’t provide enough power you will need a second booster and another power supply. 

Cool. I'd guess that my MRC should be fine. I've converted all my passenger cars to LEDs. I take it too many smoke units could be a problem due to them taking up amps? 

catnap posted:

Other than no proto-couplers, DCC activates all of the features that DCS does.

It was my understanding that the couplers would open with DCC command, is this not the case?

As for setting the voltage of the NEC booster, I did set mine to 18V so that there wouldn't be any issues as I will still use Legacy to control power to the sidings and throwing turnouts.

And about how many boosters you'd need, like I said in the top post, if you are replacing DCS you'd want one for every channel you use on the TIU.  And for Legacy one booster for every power supply (PH-180/135) you have or handle on a ZW.  My layout is planned to use 3 handles of my ZW, so that's 3 boosters.  This is one of the reasons I'm going with NEC as they have 10 amp boosters, and 10 amps is what the ZW does per handle, and I believe the TIU does per channel, so I didn't need to do any more figuring.

And as for command sets, yes, you only need one, but big layouts will need more boosters.  Boosters are not command sets, they only relay the command signal from the command base.

If I ever make it to the DCC world I was planning to use PH-180s that I already have. Specs are similar to the power supply sold by NCE, except for the voltage adjustments on NCE's. I understand I still need boosters to go with them.

I've been running DCC on a large (as in, the entire first floor of my house) layout for about five years now, so I can clarify a few things here.

For starters, the wireless 10 amp NCE system is available for $600 from places like Tony's Trains. The set includes everything you need except the power supply. I recommend this one, for $90, from mouser. It is small, fanless, and plenty powerful. So $700 to get going with a fully functional wireless 10 amp system.

You do not necessarily need multiple boosters. I run my entire layout with a single booster, and that's with plenty of engines running, pulling 20-30 car trains, powering all accessories, lights, etc. off the booster. I am typically running about 5 amps DCC output during a normal operating session. Multiple boosters are handy if you want to subdivide your layout (for example mainline vs, yard), so that a derailment in one section doesn't bring down another section, or for very large layouts. But the starter 10 amp booster will be more than adequate for most.

The NCE remote is very nicely laid out and easy to use. All the standard MTH PS3 functions - smoke, couplers, lights, all the sounds, etc. can be controlled via DCC. It's all quite well documented in the MTH manuals. Programming and setup is somewhat easier if you use JMRI along with the NCE, but it is not necessary.

The NCE system integrates nicely with JMRI for control and automation as well, so you have all the options imaginable as far as using tablets, smartphones, and touchscreen laptops for controlling the layout, automating routes, and other whiz-bang. I have JMRI set up with a full graphical representation of my layout that is controllable wirelessly via laptop and ipad. It's a lot of fun using the ipad in conjunction with the remote for heavy duty yard operations, etc. I think I have some posts somewhere about my JMRI setup.

Related rant: Smartphone/app/whatever control is simply not an option IMO as the primary control input for a system where real world hardware can be damaged if you lose control. I don't want to by typing in a passcode, waiting for my phone to update, closing out whatever popup is up at the moment, etc. while a train is running off the track. There's a reason nobody operates industrial machinery like cranes with a smartphone...

sinclair posted:

It was my understanding that the couplers would open with DCC command, is this not the case?

I operate MTH scale wheel locomotives so they don't come with electric coil couplers. The coupler sounds will play when the appropriate key is pushed. I suppose hi-rail locomotives operating on DCC will have functional protocouplers.

catnap posted:

sinclair posted:

It was my understanding that the couplers would open with DCC command, is this not the case?

I operate MTH scale wheel locomotives so they don't come with electric coil couplers. The coupler sounds will play when the appropriate key is pushed. I suppose hi-rail locomotives operating on DCC will have functional protocouplers.

Ah, that makes sense as I had just checked a manual and it said opening couplers.  I've never looked at the manual of a scale wheel locomotive, so I didn't realize they didn't come with proto-couplers.  That's good to know information.

Let me amplify THOR73's sound advice - I've been operating a large (2200 feet of track, 124 turnouts) O scale 2 rail layout for 13 years driven by a single NCE command station and 7 wireless ProCabs.  Initially I powered the  entire layout with one 10 amp booster.  As operations intensified I  later subdivided the railroad into 2 power districts, and still later 4 power districts - each with its own 10 amp booster.  In the coming year I'll I further subdivided one of those power districts into 2 sub-power districts each with its own breaker to isolate operations in the yard and engine terminal from that of the adjacent main line.  

I recommend starting with one 10 amp booster and installing additional ones if the combined power draw you experience in actual operations gets close to the capacity of the system.  No harm will come to the NCE system if the draw exceeds the boosters 10 amp capacity - it is designed to safely shut down before damage is done.  I use DCC Specialties RRampmeters on the output of each booster to observe actual current drawn during operating sessions.  These digital meters are designed to accurately measure the pulse width modulated DCC wave form (analog AC meters designed for sign waves provide less accurate readings).  Each power districts is further protected by DCC Specialties PSX PowerShield fast acting digital circuit breakers.  They self reset when the short is cleared (such as a when an operator forgets to align a powered frog turnout).

  There are at least 3 reasons to subdivide the railroad into multiple power districts -

A - real world peak current draw exceeding 10 amps necessitating additional boosters to divide the load.

B- power district track bus wire runs exceeding 75'  from the booster.  With careful location of the booster(s) relative to track arrangement  one can often mitigate bus length.  In a simplistic example if you have a 150' point to point run locate the booster in the middle of the route.  In the case of very large layouts with multiple boosters they are typically spread around the layout.  Note that multiple track busses can fan out from the booster.  I must confess that my bus runs were initially far longer than the recommended 75' length - I had no operational issues other than perhaps a slight slow down at the most distant point from the booster due to voltage drop.  

C- Minimize interruptions due to derailments/shorts when running multiple trains on separate parts of the railroad.   ( eg a derailment in the yard impacting trains running on the main or branch line.  If current draw (factor A) doesn't require an additional booster, you can mitigate issue C by splitting the output of a booster into one or more sub-power districts each with its own digital circuit breaker.  

Allow me to further endorse the NCE DCC components.  They were designed to handle our O scale environment - perhaps in part due to the owner being an O scaler!  I've found that the components stand up well to use - (my command station and first throttle are over 20 years old.   Over that time NCE has upgraded my components (like the wireless throttle)  with new functionality/features as they became available. One relatively new product is their 2 amp self contained PowerCab.  It is a complete DCC system in one hand held package that includes the functionality of a throttle, command station, and a 2 amp booster.  Standing alone it can run a modest single locomotive operation.  I initially use mine to program/test  locomotives on the workbench away from the railroad.  I later sent it to NCE for a $90 radio upgrade.  When not being used on the workbench test track, during operating sessions one the railroad we use it in wireless mode alongside the other NCE cabs - same form/fit/& function. 

- 

Agree with all of Ed's comments above, particularly concerning the robustness and upgradeability of the NCE hardware. It definitely has an industrial strength feel and performance to it.

Expanding on the DCC breaker option a bit (which completely slipped my mind in my earlier post) this is a great way to create multiple power districts powered by a single booster. Better and much cheaper, really, if you're not actually limited by the booster power.

I use the same breakers Ed mentioned, the DCC Specialties Powershield PSX1 breaker. I get mine from Tonys Trains for about $40, so they're pretty economical. It has a configurable trip voltage, so you can tailor it to the specific needs of the power district it's driving. The trip and reset behavior in my experience is quite a bit gentler to engines than the booster reset. It is addressable as a standard DCC accessory decoder, so you have remote on/off control of every power district from your cab. I found this to be a surprisingly useful feature when I first started using them, making it really easy to power on blocks of accessories, turn off idle passenger cars in a siding, and so on.

The reset behavior is configurable as well. The auto reset as Ed describes is one option, and in fact has an adjustable retry delay as I recall. Another option, which is what I use, is a manual reset. This allows me to go find and fix whatever happened, without the breaker (or booster, if you don't use a breaker) continually trying to power up and tripping again. Then once I unpile the cars    I can turn the power back on manually with a command from the remote.

That 2amp self contained PowerCab is what my brother got for N gauge and what sold me on NCE.  My layout is small enough that I could probably get away with one booster, but since I have it set up for 3 handles on my ZW I wanted to use three boosters for simplicity in wiring.  Plus I could run a total of 6 locomotives at once if I set it up right, and that would be pushing the booster at the edge.  So with how I have it planned, it should only see a max of 3 engines per booster with a rare 4th.

May 2023 Update (4 years later): This April 2023 video https://youtu.be/pdaZyY0dnF0   shows 3 MTH trains on the same mainline, no blocks, 1 detector.

1. FYI: Experimenting With NCE Power Cab & Proto 3 Alco

• I have been experimenting (blundering?) with running the MTH Premier Proto 3 Alco S2 shown in the 1st photo, using the NCE "Power Cab".
• This seems to work. The loco pulling 7 cars, draws around 1.25 amps.
• The Power-Cab is fixed at 13 volts, and with the "as delivered" 1.35 amp power supply will provide up to about 1.35 amp.
• .     (According to the NCE 'ZenDesk', it is rated for a continuous maximum of 2 amps, and a short term peak of 3 amps.)
• ~~~
• This Power Cab would probably be considered very "BORDERLINE" -- due to it's limited amperage and lower voltage.
• But for a small engine like this S2, and a not-too-long train, and running not-too-fast -- it might work (such as for around a Christmas tree).

Voltage Drops

• When actually pulling the train, that 13 volts seems to drop down to around 12 or 11 volts.
• When the voltage drops below 11 volts, then the loco seems to start "jerking".
• .     ((If I use my larger 5 amp NCE "Power Pro" system set at its maximum of 16 volts, I don't observe the "jerking" problem.))
• .      ((FYI: Using my 5 amp NCE "Power Pro" system, and holding my hand in front of the loco to "stall" it -- my DCC "RRampMeter" says the loco is pulling over 3 amps.))
• ~~
• Due to its current and voltage limitations, I can NOT recommend spending the $160-$180 to buy a new PowerCab.

• But if you already have one, or can borrow one from a friend, it is something you could experiment with.

(text CONTINUES below 1st photo)

O27 Problems: This S2 loco does not seem to want to go around O27 curves, as shown in the photo below (I need to learn more about this). The photo above shows it operating on MTH O31 Realtrax. (MTH says it needs O31 minimum curve, even though it's the same 12" length as the SW9s/SW1500s, and the catalog says the SW9s operate on O27.)

2. Notes About The DCS/DCC Switch

(as I understand it)

• As I understand it, ALL MTH Proto 3 locos have decoders capable of running on both DCS or DCC.
• But not all of them come with the DCS/DCC switch on the bottom.

The Switch:

• When Proto 3 came out in approximately 2011, all Railking and all Premier locos had the DCS/DCC switch.
• All Proto 3 Premier locos still have that switch (2011 to present).

However, around 2014, the switch was REMOVED from the Railking locos.

• The decoders in the post-2014 Railking locos that don't have the switch, are still capable of running on DCC, but you have obtain the parts (the switch & 2 screws) and ADD the switch yourself (or have someone talented do it for you).
• MTH has a 2-page PDF instruction sheet showing how to do this.
• Alternately, there is a jumper wire inside the loco that you can just CUT -- and then the loco with run on DCC, but will NOT run on DCS.
• Said another way, apparently that switch "opens" that jumper wire connection to run on DCC, or "closes" that jumper wire connection to run on DCS.

3. I'm Working On A VIDEO of This:

• I'm trying to make a VIDEO -- showing the NCE "Mini-Panel" (shown in below photo) controlling this loco AUTOMATICALLY
• Preliminary testing leads me to believe we can do it.

More FYI, re Previous Videos:

• Under the 'AutoControls.org' video series, I have made a bunch of videos showing automatic control of N/HO/S and Largescale trains, but not yet O gauge.
• FYI #3: There's a "compilation" video  that shows some of setups operating.
• This link https://youtu.be/le6Bsz66ndo?t=410  should take you to the 6:50 minute point in that video, where the DCC part begins (the 1st part of the video is analog).  Note this video is FAST FORWARDED.  (It's a compilation of 18 videos.)

James, could you email me please?  I have some questions for you regarding running PS-3 with NCE DCC.  Thanks.

A friend was interested in the MTH ES44 Hybrid in 2-rail, but he ran an NCE DCC 10-amp system. I brought out mine (2-rail/Proto-3) to a show where his modular group was operating. It ran flawlessly and he immediately ordered one, plus a Blue Goose Hudson. Pretty much all of the standard features run under DCC, but some specialized DCS functions indeed do not. It really comes down to whether you need those features. I've been looking at 5-amp DCC systems to support a couple of 2-rail only locomotives I have running under DCC and I would probably use some of my Proto-3 locomotives with it as well.

@AGHRMatt Does a PS3 loco "coast" to a gentle stop under DCC if you press "Direction" while it is rolling along at a good clip?  Is this a user-adjustable DCC configuration variable?  Likewise, the adjustable rate of acceleration.  DCS has had adjustable max rate of acceleration from the beginning.  Does the PS3 board offer it as a programmable CV under DCC?  Sorry for all the questions!  -Ted

I operate PS3 locomotives under DCC with my NCE 10-amp ProCab. You get all of the features under DCC that you do with DCS. All 29 functions are mapped. You can adjust the speed curve and acceleration settings on a PS3 locomotive just like you would with any other locomotive with a DCC decoder. MTH provides a manual with all of the values for the CV's that you want to rewrite.

Why on earth would you want to change directions with a locomotive in motion? That sounds like a recipe for disaster to the running gear and motors.

catnap posted:

I operate PS3 locomotives under DCC with my NCE 10-amp ProCab. You get all of the features under DCC that you do with DCS. All 29 functions are mapped. You can adjust the speed curve and acceleration settings on a PS3 locomotive just like you would with any other locomotive with a DCC decoder. MTH provides a manual with all of the values for the CV's that you want to rewrite.

Why on earth would you want to change directions with a locomotive in motion? That sounds like a recipe for disaster to the running gear and motors.

Do you get the quillable whistle on steam when on DCC? 

Yes, DCC supports what is called "Playable Whistle" or "Playable Horn" in DCC parlance but it is only available on sound decoders that have this feature built in, which most of the major current DCC sound decoder suppliers (Soundtraxx, ESU Loksound, TCS) do now support.   

Not sure if this supported under MTH PS3 decoder though.  

Scott

catnap posted:

Why on earth would you want to change directions with a locomotive in motion? That sounds like a recipe for disaster to the running gear and motors.

I wouldn't.  But with the right programming it might be easier than decreasing the speed with the thumbwheel, no less realistic, and also not damaging to the drive train.  Please keep reading...

From the beginning PS3 has had an issue with abrupt stops, whereas the prior MTH control boards (PS2) did not.  Even mechanical momentum from the flywheel doesn't seem to overcome it.  Some have suspected a programming (firmware) error.  If PS3 locos exhibit this same abrupt stopping behavior under DCC, that suggests the issue extends beyond the DCS firmware to the hardware on the motor driver board.

For a long time I was active with a modular group that displayed to the public several times a year.  Sometimes we would let kids run the trains.  And sometimes, either deliberately or accidentally, a kid would press the DIR button while the train was running.  (On the proprietary 3-rail command systems, there is no way to lock out the DIR function without seriously modifying the hand-held controllers.)  The default programmed behavior for DIR was to decelerate the train at a gradual programmed rate to a full stop, and wait at speed step zero, primed to run in the opposite direction when the throttle control was advanced.  No harm done.  That's convenient, logical, and also what I would prefer with DCC.

So what's the default behavior of a PS3 board under DCC?  Does it stop gradually or abruptly?  And can it be configured to behave as I describe above?  Thanks!!

My Akron Canton & Youngstown Alco S2 Has Gradual Stopping:

• This PS3 Akron Canton & Youngstown Alco S2 that I have been experimenting with (picture shown in my Oct. 7 post above), seems to have "gradual slowdown" built into it when operating on DCC.
• For example, if I instantly change from Speed Step 10 down to Speed Step 0 (stop) , the loco GRADUALLY slows down.
• It also gradually accelerates when starting up.

Pushing Direction Button While Running

• I also frequently press the "Direction" button when the loco is travelling fairly fast (why: because I'm a lazy operator &nbsp.
• When I do this, the loco gradually slows down, sits for a second, then gradually starts up in the other direction.
• .     (All other brands of DCC decoders that I have encountered, behave this same way.)
• If I need  to stop the loco instantly (due to a derailment or something I forgot that I left on the track), I just press the "Emergency Stop" button-- which stops it almost instantly.

FYI: The CVs

• I have not yet tried to change the contents of CV3 (acceleration) and CV4 (deceleration).
• I tried to read them using the Power Cab in programming mode, and their contents appeared to be 0.
• That setting SHOULD be "instant stop" -- but as I said, this loco always seems to start and stop gradually.
  ~~~~~~~
• Keep in mind, this loco that I have is from the 2018 ver 1 catalog, so it might behave differently then other vintages of PS3 locos.
• This is the first O gauge "Proto" (digital) loco I've owned, and  I've only had it for about 3 weeks -- so I'm "learning as I go".)

My issue with MTH DCC locos is if you change the motor control to MWH not sMPH that you lose sounds such as brake sounds when you slow down the trian to scale speed. I have seen this on my 4 MTH HO engines with PS3. They run great just not gonna touch MTH because I do allot of consisting and to do that i need MWH control CV52=1 and do not want to lose sound features. Plus the fact that MTH is going out next year. I will continue to buy used MTH O scale pS2/3 products though love them.

Not sure what MWH is, but I consist my two PS3 O gauge locomotives all the time and keep sound.

Its a DCC issue apparently. MHW is when you want to adjust voltage on three points or when you want to use a speed curve. If you do not need to adjust it your consist will work fine. the only sounds im losing are the brake sounds on deceleration those must be based on sMPH. I would say its a bug but not going to buy MTH HO anymore anyways because I use DCC. I do not want to run my GP38-2 at 100 sMPH top speed is 65 seeing it pass passenger engines is non realistic.

@Jamos posted:

I do not want to run my GP38-2 at 100 sMPH top speed is 65 seeing it pass passenger engines is non realistic.

Then don't turn the speed up so high.  It's extremely rare for me to run mine above speed step 50 (Using 128 speed steps).  As for break sounds, mine come on if I turn the throttle all the way to zero from anything over speed step 20.  Remember, when in DCC the number on your controller is not sMPH, it's just speed step.  You are right that with most other DCC decoders, you can adjust the speed so that the speed step becomes sMPH, but I do not know if that is possible with MTH.  They do have some speed tables built in you can switch between, but all MTH locomotives are already factory speed matched with each other.

Well of course I do not, but it doesnt reach notch 8 which makes the engine noise unrealistic. Like I said no more mth ho for me. 

I'd like to add some good info to this discussion, and yes I know this thread is now 2 years old.  First, I'd like to acknowledge James Ingram, who posted above, much of what I've learned about MTH DCC is from him, his site, and his videos.  However, as a long time NCE DCC user, I have some input on how to save a ton of money if you'd like to go DCC with MTH in O scale.  First, I'm mostly a G scale person so I know about pulling a lot of Amps, DCC boosters, and the like. I've also done some research on the actual Amps that get pulled by G scale and O scale engines. Many people WAY over estimate what the engines actually pull.  Example, I hear people say that the 4 motor Aristo-Craft Dash 9, one of the largest G scale engines, requires 5 Amp min.  However, testing shows the actually max current, stall current is around 3.5 Amps.  This was tested in Garden Railways Magazine.  I have sucessfully run 2 G scale SD-45s on one 5 Amp / 24v DCC booster at fairly high speed steps before the booster hit its limit.

Ok, onto my tips.  First, you can use ANY DCC system with O or G scale, you just need a booster along with the command station that has the right voltage and current specs.  For O scale I recommend at least one 5 Amp booster at 16-18V.  I use an NCE Powercab System, that I bought about 13 years ago for $125, they are now about $175.  With that I've tried several boosters including a Bachmann 5A, two MRC 8A, and a custom MRC 8A booster that was modified to make two 6 Amp boosters (don't ask me how, someone else did it)  and more recently the best bargain in the world.... Tam Valley Depot 5A boosters that cost only $50 or so, without a power supply.   I'll get a photo below of my setup with the 5 Amp Tam Valley booster, I mounted everything on a board along with an NCE Mini-Panel for DCC train automation.  My point is that you can have a fully functioning O scale DCC system for about $250-$270.  I also have a 2nd NCE DCC ProCab as a 2nd throttle, and also use it as an easier way to program my NCE Mini-Panel.  I buy many of my items used, my Procab was only $100 on eBay.  As a matter of fact, I just purchased another NCE PowerCab system this week on eBay for only $130 with shipping!  Now I'll have two completely separate DCC systems for O Scale and G scale, I've been switching back and forth these last few weeks.

Power supply selection.  For G scale I can get 2 24v 6A power bricks on Amazon for only $23, yes TWO.  I use one to power Tam Valley Depot Booster, with just under 24V to the track.  For O scale this week I've been using an adjustable 5-24V 3A power supply (I'm about to purchase a 5 Amp model that goes for about $30 ) for testing etc.  I can run 2 O scale engines with this, but it has cut out some since I reached 3A limit.  I just have to reset everything when that happens, but no damage to the power brick.  I set the power supply to just above 16V so I get about 16V AC to the Track from the booster.  I spent much of the last several days testing 3 Railking MTH engines I just bought on eBay in DCC mode, all run GREAT with lots of nice options.  I have a 4th engine on the way.

Like James Ingram, higher up in this thread, I build many Auto Control circuits in both Analog DC in G scale, and now working on DCC in G scale and O scale.  BTW,  I can also run Lionel Lionchief engines on the DCC track along with the DCC locos, I just use the lionchief remotes (or Lionel App) to run those independently.  Today I was running both an MTH 2-8-0 steam engine on DCC and my Lionel Pacific 4-6-2 trains together on my small test layout.  I then had 2 DCC engines running, and 1 lionchief and took turns putting one on the siding and running the other 2.  As long as only a max of 2 were actually running at normal speed I never hit the limit of my 3 amp power supply.  When I get the new 5 amp brick it will be great!

Below is a photo of my entire DCC setup.  The Board is a 1x6 about 13 inches long.  Top right is the Tam Valley Depot 5A DCC Booster, bottom right is the ProCab powered UTP panel, middle bottom is my NCE Mini-Panel used for automation (it's essentially a programmable NCE CAB unit with about 130 memory locations for code, and 30 inputs from detectors, reed switches, buttons or switches.  The box on the left are connected to the Mini-Panel for starting automatic DCC sequences, plus switches for options in the code. This entire setup (with the extra Procab and Mini-Panel) is about a $400 investment, but for full featured DCC you don't need the Mini-panel or 2nd Cab. Also, for larger layouts just add additional boosters for each district.  For most home layouts you should only need about 3 boosters/districts.  Plus, you can get more powerful boosters if needed, but they will cost more.  I'm in the process of building my own 10A booster based on an Arduino, I found the plans online.

Another Note: You don't need to use NCE.  I've also built an Aurdino-based command station, with a Raspberry Pi 4 mini computer using JMRI software, with my phone and tablet as throttles.  It's called DCC++ EX, you can find it on the web. Very inexpensive and works well, I just used my Booster to run my G scale trains with it.  Heck, I used a base Bachamm DCC system I got for $100 back about 10 years ago with my MRC booster, and then Bachmann Booster to run G scale trains too.  Just pick which system you like and you can get cheap.  Right now, IMHO, one of the best out-of-the-box systems with 7 Amp booster built-in is the ESU 50210 CabControl Wireless DCC System with 7Amp booster variable voltage 15-21v.  It is PERFECT for O scale DCC MTH based layout, and runs about $375 total.   Let me know if you have any questions or need more info on anything.

I chose an inexpensive entry to DCC.  I purchased a BlueRail board and then decided to power the engine with a battery.

My MTH engines run so much better with BlueRail control and the Blunami app then they ever ran with DCS.  Especially with consisting.

I just recently gutted the PS3 components and installed a Soundtraxx 4400 decoder.  WOW what a difference.

The new Blunami 4400 coming out in 2023 for O and G will basically be the BlueRail board and the Soundtraxx board all wrapped into one.

I have a 44 tonner still running PS3 in DCC mode.  That will eventually get ripped out for Blunami also.

Ron

@T Ansley posted:

I'd like to add some good info to this discussion, and yes I know this thread is now 2 years old.  First, I'd like to acknowledge James Ingram, who posted above, much of what I've learned about MTH DCC is from him, his site, and his videos.  However, as a long time NCE DCC user, I have some input on how to save a ton of money if you'd like to go DCC with MTH in O scale.  First, I'm mostly a G scale person so I know about pulling a lot of Amps, DCC boosters, and the like. I've also done some research on the actual Amps that get pulled by G scale and O scale engines. Many people WAY over estimate what the engines actually pull.  Example, I hear people say that the 4 motor Aristo-Craft Dash 9, one of the largest G scale engines, requires 5 Amp min.  However, testing shows the actually max current, stall current is around 3.5 Amps.  This was tested in Garden Railways Magazine.  I have sucessfully run 2 G scale SD-45s on one 5 Amp / 24v DCC booster at fairly high speed steps before the booster hit its limit.

Ok, onto my tips.  First, you can use ANY DCC system with O or G scale, you just need a booster along with the command station that has the right voltage and current specs.  For O scale I recommend at least one 5 Amp booster at 16-18V.  I use an NCE Powercab System, that I bought about 13 years ago for $125, they are now about $175.  With that I've tried several boosters including a Bachmann 5A, two MRC 8A, and a custom MRC 8A booster that was modified to make two 6 Amp boosters (don't ask me how, someone else did it)  and more recently the best bargain in the world.... Tam Valley Depot 5A boosters that cost only $50 or so, without a power supply.   I'll get a photo below of my setup with the 5 Amp Tam Valley booster, I mounted everything on a board along with an NCE Mini-Panel for DCC train automation.  My point is that you can have a fully functioning O scale DCC system for about $250-$270.  I also have a 2nd NCE DCC ProCab as a 2nd throttle, and also use it as an easier way to program my NCE Mini-Panel.  I buy many of my items used, my Procab was only $100 on eBay.  As a matter of fact, I just purchased another NCE PowerCab system this week on eBay for only $130 with shipping!  Now I'll have two completely separate DCC systems for O Scale and G scale, I've been switching back and forth these last few weeks.

Power supply selection.  For G scale I can get 2 24v 6A power bricks on Amazon for only $23, yes TWO.  I use one to power Tam Valley Depot Booster, with just under 24V to the track.  For O scale this week I've been using an adjustable 5-24V 3A power supply (I'm about to purchase a 5 Amp model that goes for about $30 ) for testing etc.  I can run 2 O scale engines with this, but it has cut out some since I reached 3A limit.  I just have to reset everything when that happens, but no damage to the power brick.  I set the power supply to just above 16V so I get about 16V AC to the Track from the booster.  I spent much of the last several days testing 3 Railking MTH engines I just bought on eBay in DCC mode, all run GREAT with lots of nice options.  I have a 4th engine on the way.

Like James Ingram, higher up in this thread, I build many Auto Control circuits in both Analog DC in G scale, and now working on DCC in G scale and O scale.  BTW,  I can also run Lionel Lionchief engines on the DCC track along with the DCC locos, I just use the lionchief remotes (or Lionel App) to run those independently.  Today I was running both an MTH 2-8-0 steam engine on DCC and my Lionel Pacific 4-6-2 trains together on my small test layout.  I then had 2 DCC engines running, and 1 lionchief and took turns putting one on the siding and running the other 2.  As long as only a max of 2 were actually running at normal speed I never hit the limit of my 3 amp power supply.  When I get the new 5 amp brick it will be great!

Below is a photo of my entire DCC setup.  The Board is a 1x6 about 13 inches long.  Top right is the Tam Valley Depot 5A DCC Booster, bottom right is the ProCab powered UTP panel, middle bottom is my NCE Mini-Panel used for automation (it's essentially a programmable NCD CAB nit with about 130 memory locattions for code, and 30 inputs from detectors, reed switches, buttons or switches.  The box on the left are connected to the Mini-Panel for starting automatic DCC sequences, plus switches for options in the code. This entire setup (with the extra Procab and Mini-Panel) is about a $400 investment, but for full featured DCC you don't need the Mini-panel or 2nd Cab. Also, for larger layouts just add addtional boosters for each district.  For most home layouts you should only need about 3 boosters/districts.  Plus, you can get more powerful boosters if needed, but they will cost more.  I'm in the process of building my own 10A booster based on an Arduino, I found the plans online.

Another Note: You don't need to use NCE.  I've also built an Aurdino-based command station, with a Raspberry Pi 4 mini computer using JMRI software, with my phone and tablet as throttles.  It's called DCC++ EX, you can find it on the web. Very inexpensive and works well, I just used my Booster to run my G scale trains with it.  Heck, I used a base Bachamm DCC system I got for $100 back about 10 years ago with my MRC booster, and then Bachmann Booster to run G scale trains too.  Just pick which system you like and you can get cheap.  Right now, IMHO, one of the best out-of-the-box systems with 7 Amp booster built-in is the ESU 50210 CabControl Wireless DCC System with 7Amp booster variable voltage 15-21v.  It is PERFECT for O scale DCC MTH based layout, and runs about $375 total.   Let me know if you have any questions or need more info on anything.

Thanks for the extensive and detailed post.  Unfortunately, the pic does not appear.

Also, can you provide a link (or specific product name / number) for the inexpensive power brick you found on Amazon/

@Mallard4468 posted:

Thanks for the extensive and detailed post.  Unfortunately, the pic does not appear.

Also, can you provide a link (or specific product name / number) for the inexpensive power brick you found on Amazon/

You don't see the big photo of the entire board?  Or..you think I posted a photo of the power brick and you don't see a 2nd photo?  I'll add photos as attachments this time and see if that works.  Which power brick, the 24V 6A one?  I buy those in a 2 pack, I'll post links to the one I use and the one I'm purchasing with adjustable voltage, it's on the way right now.  Here are links to power bricks, first one is 2 for $23 for 24v 5A, the second one is an adustable 4-24V 5A power brick (EDIT: I added a photo of the back of the 24v 6A power brick):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod...tle?ie=UTF8&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod...le?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Ted

@T Ansley posted:

"......Another Note: You don't need to use NCE.  I've also built an Aurdino-based command station, with a Raspberry Pi 4 mini computer using JMRI software, with my phone and tablet as throttles.  It's called DCC++ EX, you can find it on the web. Very inexpensive and works well, I just used my Booster to run my G scale trains with it.  Heck, I used a base Bachamm DCC system I got for $100 back about 10 years ago with my MRC booster, and then Bachmann Booster to run G scale trains too.  Just pick which system you like and you can get cheap.  Right now, IMHO, one of the best out-of-the-box systems with 7 Amp booster built-in is the ESU 50210 CabControl Wireless DCC System with 7Amp booster variable voltage 15-21v.  It is PERFECT for O scale DCC MTH based layout, and runs about $375 total.   Let me know if you have any questions or need more info on anything.

I know I'm replying to my own post, I'd like to add some info.  First, I stick with NCE, even though I REALLY like some of the new systems like the ESU one I mentioned because.... the NCE Mini-Panel!  That thing is like magic, seriously, if you want DCC train automation it is cheap and works well!  Take a look at all of James Ingram's videos and drawings on AutoControls.org.  Also, look across scales at his videos, pretty much every video and setup he does can be adapted to another scale. I used one of his N scale 2 and 3 train DCC videos and code in my mini-panel for my G scale engines.  I was looking for a way to automate running 2 G scale DCC engines around my modular layout without having to constantly monitor them.  I found with one reed switch, I use an LGB track contact but any reed switch works, and will work in O scale too, I can run 2 trains safely around the layout.  I programmed the mini-panel so that I push a button and one train starts,  then when it crosses the reed switch it slows down, blows its horn and starts and speeds up the 2nd loco.  Then it continues when the 2nd loco hits the reed switch, it blows its horn, slows down and then speeds up the 1st loco. Then it repeats, simple, but very effective and keeps the trains spaced regardless of what brand loco and DCC decoder you use.  You can also do it with 3 locos if the layout is larger.  Yes, it requires some tweaking for each loco you run but it works.  There are many things you can do with mini-panel, throw turnouts, run 3+ trains from sidings.  Pretty much whatever you can fit in the code in 130 steps.  It's essentially an extra Cab on the NCE bus that sends DCC commands according to your code.  You can have plenty of track sensors, use accessories and switches, and send any commands to the locos you would send form a normal CAB.  Yes, there's a learning curve if you have no experience with step-driven commands with logic (sort of like programming light).  However, it really is amazing what you can do with very little hardware and programming.  I just purchased my 4th O scale MTH Rail King engine with Proto-Sound 3.  I plan on fully automating 3 engines running on a simple loop with a siding.  It will be cool, I've already been doing this in G scale for years.  I can post wiring examples, or anything else if anyone needs help,  or how to build this stuff if James' site is confusing to anyone.  However, the original point is that MTH Proto 3 engines are god send to anyone in any other scales that uses DCC, you can simply use the system you already own, and  a booster if needed.

What i don't understand is why other DCC manufacturers haven't added a small mini computer option to their DCC lineup so you can connect and automate sending commands?

I have another tidbit of info that might blow your mind.  You can actually hook the same DCC system to two different scale layouts at the same time!  When I setup an Xmas layout about 10 years ago I had a multi scale layout, the innermost loop of track was N scale, then I had a loop of HO, loop of O and two loops of G.  The N scale loop, HO loop, and outer G loop all ran DCC trains.  I used my NCE PowerCab with Bachmann Booster (at 16V to the track) connected to all 3 loops.  I ran 1 DCC engine on each loop, N, HO and G with different DCC addresses at the same time.  Worked like a charm.   So, in theory I could have two big layouts right next to each other, any scale really, with proper boosters. (with proper grounding, and remember each booster can have different Amps and voltage), I could run both layouts with the same DCC command station!  To make it easier, use one throttle for the 1st scale and the 2nd throttle for the other scale, or just add more throttles if needed! This could easily be accomplished wtih NCE or an Aurdino Based DCC+ EX system w/JMRI computer using phones/tablets as throttles, with multiple power districts.

One last thing.  When I wire my layouts, I had one temp layout with about 7 blocked sections for standard non-DCC wiring, I double block all the sections with DPDT switches, then I can turn on/off completely both rails for any section of the layout,  That way I can have DCC on one side of the DPDT switches and standard Analog on the other and can run either Analog or DCC on any given block at the same time on the layout, usually loops of tracks, or sidings.  This is also a good way to run standard Lioncheif locos and regular O-scale analog on the same layout.  Most people don't have a good understanding of blocking, and when and why you block 1 rail or 2.  Many do understand and do the same, but I've noticed in forums this is complicated for many people.  But, this is a good way to run DCC and Analog on the same layout too. When i take my modular layout to train shows, I typically run DCC on the outer loop and 3 Analog trains on the inner loop, but I can run either.   Wiring is my strength, scenery not so much! :-)

I have purchased a Atlas 2 rail Amtrak F40ph w/Proto 3.

I need some help setting the loco address which , of course, is set at 3.

Using NCE DCC 10 amp system.

Regular guy , not a electrical engineer!!

Thank you for any advise!!

John P Dunn Sr

To change your engine's Long Address using PoM:

1. Call up the current engine's address on your DCC handheld
2. Enter Programming on the Main on your DCC handheld
3. In this step you have to tell the MTH engine that you want it to start looking at long addresses. You do this in CV29:
   
   1. Bring up the CV menu on your DCC handheld
   2. Enter “29” to edit CV29
   3. Enter “38” to change the value of CV29 and hit Enter
   4. The engine will give you a two whistle/horn blast response
4. In the following steps you will now need to write values to CV17 and CV18 to tell the engine what the long address should be
5. Call up CV17 and enter the value required for CV17. You will get a two whistle/horn blast response
6. Call up CV18 and enter the value required for CV18. You will get a two whistle/horn blast response

In order to determine your required values for CV17 and CV18 you will need to go download the DCC VC17 and CV18 Conversion Spreadsheet (which can be found on the MTH website or you can use one of the many calculators on line)

Enter in the long address you want then click anywhere else in the spreadsheet and it will return the values for CV17 and CV18 (it will also return the hex conversion of the CV17 and CV18 values if your DCC system requires this).

John, I have done this many times but not in a long time so I had to look up the instructions. There are many on line calculators you can use to find the values for CV17 and CV18. Here is one for example:

https://www.digitrax.com/support/cv/calculators/

You just put in the 4 digit number you want to be the locomotives long address and the calculator will tell you what values to use for CV17 and CV18. Keep us posted.