MTH tender trucks fell apart for N&W J-Class

DA1240040 is the part number for the rear truck assembly

DA1230063 is the part number for the front truck assembly

they currently show unavailable at mthpartsandsales.com, but if you go and create an account, and put those part numbers on your wishlist, if they become available, you’ll get notified…..I know they’re still sifting through tons of parts, so there’s a good chance they may become available….

Pat

Sorry I can’t offer any help, but is it metal fatigue or just zinc rot? The bowing makes me think it’s the latter.

I believe Bob is correct, this sure looks like zinc rot.

This is a classic case of zinc pest, unfortunately. It maybe just as well that MTH does not have any replacements. Who knows, if they had any, those parts could be suffering from the same malady.

The good news is you have one side frame that appears intact, at least for now. First, check that side frame carefully to be certain it has not swelled or changed dimension. A square and straight edge can help here. Assuming all is well, I'd try to find someone to either 3D print you a set, using the "good" frame as a template, or possibly cast you a set in plastic.

Good luck with your effort!

Chris

LVHR

@lehighline posted:

This is a classic case of zinc pest, unfortunately. It maybe just as well that MTH does not have any replacements. Who knows, if they had any, those parts could be suffering from the same malady.

The good news is you have one side frame that appears intact, at least for now. First, check that side frame carefully to be certain it has not swelled or changed dimension. A square and straight edge can help here. Assuming all is well, I'd try to find someone to either 3D print you a set, using the "good" frame as a template, or possibly cast you a set in plastic.

Good luck with your effort!

Chris

LVHR

Zinc Pessimist much?…not every batch of parts has zinc rot, the Railking N&W J was manufactured over a great number of years ….in sets, separate sale, Imperial, PS1, 2, & 3 …..there’s a much better chance he might can get a good set vs. a bad set……if this were a one time offered locomotive, like the run of Lionel GG1’s, then sure, it might be an issue…….

Pat  

Zinc pessimist? Not really. And I agree: Not every casting has it. However, looking at the OP's picture, The manner of the breaks with the tabs remaining, and the bowing of the remaining side frame are classic signs of ZP. If you look at the center hump on the side frame of the other truck, you will note the rough edge along the backside. Again, a classic symptom of ZP. I see no sign of ZP on the remaining frame, at least in that picture. Given the variable nature of ZP, especially when it strikes and how it manifests itself, I'd start looking for 4 new frames or a means to replicate them using the one remaining good frame as a template. Unfortunately, I no longer have access to an XRF. Otherwise, I'd say send the parts to me and I could tell the OP how much lead contaimination is present.

Chris

LVHR

@lehighline posted:

Zinc pessimist? Not really. And I agree: Not every casting has it. However, looking at the OP's picture, The manner of the breaks with the tabs remaining, and the bowing of the remaining side frame are classic signs of ZP. If you look at the center hump on the side frame of the other truck, you will note the rough edge along the backside. Again, a classic symptom of ZP. I see no sign of ZP on the remaining frame, at least in that picture. Given the variable nature of ZP, especially when it strikes and how it manifests itself, I'd start looking for 4 new frames or a means to replicate them using the one remaining good frame as a template. Unfortunately, I no longer have access to an XRF. Otherwise, I'd say send the parts to me and I could tell the OP how much lead contaimination is present.

Chris

LVHR

Absolutely agree, his case is most definitely zinc rot, ….but again, if this was a one off run and the parts are made out of unobtanium, then yeah, he’d might be looking for another avenue,…..but given the RK J had a bunch of time in the spotlight, once the parts get on the website, I’m sure he’ll be able to get a set……every once in a while we see reports of one off zinc pest issues…..sometimes it affects the entire run/batch, but in this case, that RK engine was churned out like cord wood,…..I’d think there’s way way more good than bad….

Pat

Okay, let's keep our fingers crossed that MTH makes more RKJs.

Chris

LVHR

Are there any other models that would have used the same side frames? If so, looking for a broken RK J or one of the other tenders that used similar side frames is another option if new old stock parts can't be sourced.

Hmm, something didn't match up there. I looked up the Engine number provided at MTH parts. 30-4058-1.

I get a Railking Northern 4-8-4 mechanical parts listing https://www.mthpartsandsales.c...lists/174?type=lists

It showed 8 wheel trucks

However, these are 6 wheel trucks

So one note is that we need a truck specifically with the pivot point near but just in front of the middle axle.

Edited because I was searching real-time while creating the post, rather than provide what would not work, the final answer was at the bottom so I removed the middle searches that could cause confusion.

Might have to do a repaint, but this one looks pretty close for the front truck

And bingo, matched pair of brown that can be repainted.

DA1230014 and DA1240020 https://www.mthpartsandsales.com/shop/search

The "how" I found those.

Yes, I identified the wrong 8 wheel trucks in the parts breakdown. However, the key word search is "TENDER TRUCK / 8-WHEEL" to which I modified to "TENDER TRUCK / 6-WHEEL".  Then I refined the search with "Railking" to remove all the premier listings. I then started from the bottom working my way up opening up each picture and looking for the key element that the pivot point had to be not centered over the middle axle, but instead moved slightly forward of the middle axle and thus nearer the coupler mount or drawbar mount. By shear luck, it wasn't too many up the list that I came across the rear one that might work, and since it was Forty-Niner I changed the refine search function to that to help more quickly find the matching front truck from that set.

I know searching for parts sometimes you just have to do that above method and it works for both Lionel and MTH parts sites respectively. You find a keyword string (example Tender Truck / 6-Wheel) and then pay around modifying it and a lot of looking at pictures but the method does work.

Now looking further, I'll grant you, the replacements I found are not an exact match. They have completely different bearing details from the original, however, if the intent is just a runner, and the other parts are not available, to me this is a running compromise.

VS

VS

Again, I think mechanically they are pretty darn close and if desired, the front stamped drawbar with 2 holes VS 1 could be swapped at the mount seems to be identical.

MTH at one time offered a Rail King six-axle depressed-center flat with the same trucks as that tender. The ones shown above are "flat-topped" Commonwealths; the tender ones have a distinct "hump" over the middle axle, I do not have access to my Schnabel cars at the moment, but I believe that they also have three-axle trucks.

@PRRMP54 posted:

MTH at one time offered a Rail King six-axle depressed-center flat with the same trucks as that tender. The ones shown above are "flat-topped" Commonwealths; the tender ones have a distinct "hump" over the middle axle, I do not have access to my Schnabel cars at the moment, but I believe that they also have three-axle trucks.

Good idea, but the pivot is centered over the axle on those

So keyword searching "TRUCK / FREIGHT / 3-AXLE"

I found this one but the mounting of the sideframe (screws from the topside) would not be compatible nor is the pivot point.

OK so more searching.

Proper J-class but the coupler or drawbar mounting is missing. So unsure if the side frame fit the existing pivot frame?

And kicker, out of stock

There is a Dreyfus Hudson one. In stock and cheaper

And rear

Again, pivot in the correct location, Railking, in stock, similar details and frame structure.

I wanted to thank everyone for your input! It was a great help!!! I went ahead and order the trucks for the Dreyfus Hudson but backordered the correct ones. Not 100% set on it being original just so long as it can be used. And yes it was zinc pest. It was hard to tell but even the truck frames had a million tiny cracks which is why replacing the sideframes wouldn't work. Hopefully in a few weeks I'll have this back on the track and going! Thanks again everyone! Cheers!

Fred, do you happen to have those trucks? I could use them. Thx.

That freight set was notorious for crumbling side frames.  Hence why no parts available.  I have a box dedicated to those leftover pieces.  So using an alternate is the best way to go.  I Have used other J trucks on the tender for customers not worried about appearance, just an operating engine.  G

I had the same exact problem when repairing a friends J-Cass tender. I also did an extensive search on MTH's parts website and I also found the 6 wheel trucks for the Forty-Niner. I told my friend the side frames were brown but they were  very close to the N&W colors. After I received the parts from MTH and installed them on his tender I thought they looked great. My friend agreed and he was very happy with the outcome.