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MTH Very Jerky Engine Operation

Barry BroskowitzBarry BroskowitzOGR Forum Member MEMORIALIZED MEMBER

Mike,

Does a 12 ga. wire carry a DCS signal better than a 14 ga. wire, when runs are over 50'?

Yes, it does.

 

The DCS signal travels on the outside oof the wire. The larger the surface area, the better the signal. That's why stranded wire is so much better than solid wire - more surface area on the strands.

 

Of course, if a signal is already a 10, larger gauge wire is not going to help much, if at all.

M mokemikeOGR Forum Member
Stan, I finally talked to Dick Caster, as he called me back yesterday morning before I was out of cell phone range.  I'll try to repeat the short conversation as best as I can.  I related that his instructions on downloading a new sound files, fixing the six jerky engines. I also related that one engine, after changing the traction tires went back to a jerky engine.  My first question: What does the sound file, on the new download affect? Is it a circuit card?, tach reader? or what?  Should I try and put the engine into Cruise? What circuit card should I be changing? He stated that after a download of a new sound file, the engine now "listens on a different frequency"  My next question: Well, how come the one engine that had the traction tires changed, went back to a jerky engine?  Have you checked the engine rollers? he asked.
 
Yes, I have cleaned rollers, cleaned wheels, clean track, I said.  He said, I really don't know, but it sounds like a signal issue. End of conversation.
 
Implied, but not stated, that jerky engines were a routine repair using a new sound file download and that after the engine was returned to the owner, it wasn't sent back to MTH , for the same problem, later.
 
I lost all yesterday and most of today to other distractions that I had to complete.  My next step is to send an engine around the entire layout under the control of TIU 5's and check signal strength on each power block.  If I find a low signal under "4", try just one of those areas with a 12 ga. wire in lieu of the present 14 ga. wire on a 60' run.  Retest signal strength.  If it improves, move to other areas that have long runs of 14 ga. wire.  After achieving an acceptable signal strength on each block of track, make a lash-up, with the engines about 3 feet apart.  Send lash-up around the entire 400' loop.  Also, try and get the current jerky engine into cruise and observe performance.  
 
Comments welcomed, as I won't start that project until Saturday.
 
Thanks again for the help.  Moke Mike
 
Originally Posted by stan2004:

Mike, I'm not sure there's much to narrate.  That is, the PS2 (3V) board set pair has a smaller board on top (in the video).  This is sometimes referred to as the power supply board; it also happens to have a key part tach sensor IC.  The larger board on the bottom (in the video) is referred to as the processor, digital, or logic board and has most everything else on it (sound, lights, motor, smoke).  As shown, the two boards separate.  You can plug a top board into a different bottom board in the event you want to further isolate which board is bad if such is the case.

 

And absolutely use some kind of wrist grounding strap if you can!  My intent was to make working with these boards seem less intimidating and perhaps I went a bit overboard!  Anyway, there are lots of folks here who are willing to help out and get to the bottom of this.  I'm very curious about the next chapter in the novel of why your MU setups are failing.

 

 

S stan2004OGR Forum Member

Couple comments.

 

1. Early-on you ran the problem engine in a cradle with decoupled motors.  Did the tach'd motor by itself jerk differently for DCS and conventional operation?   You can kind-of sort-of simulate a relatively constant load on the motor with a Q-tip (or whatever) pressed to spinning track wheel.  You can also press against the flat part of the flywheel with less force since there's no gearing at that point.  While not normal operation as discussed, the single motor by itself with a modest artificial load should run smoothly in both DCS and conventional.  I can make a video if this is not clear.  I'm still interested in getting your problem engine working.

 

2. I understand your interest in jumping ahead to MU operation under DCS since that is how you operate your trains, but as you stated early on, 3 of the engines were running stand alone.  That is, I see the correlation between MU and jerky behavior, but I'm not convinced (yet) of causation.  Would the MU engines have failed if they were operating stand-alone?  Obviously we will never know but that is something I've pondered.

 

3. As just a general question, aside from the obvious mix/match benefit and vastly increased prime mover options under DCS, what has been the experience of running AA units synchronized using the PS master-slave hard-wiring vs. 2 independent A units synchronized over DCS...with respect to jerky behavior, failed motors, etc.

M mokemikeOGR Forum Member
Stan, I never ran the engine in conventional with it in the cradle, upside down.
I read your instructions and I'll try that process vs DCS afterwards looking for differences.  On the lash-up question, the only way that I've even run multiple units together, is with DCS, P2 and P3 engines.  I've never read about the hard wire option, for DCS anywhere, however; since I've never had this kind of lash-up problem before.  Under Dave Hikel's help, we lashed up five engines, with DCS using inducters, just to see if we could maintain the five engine operation without tripping any breakers.
 
It worked as an experiment.  We we're trying to test a portion of track that could support two two engine lash-ups on the same track at the same time, if one train accidentally got on the same channel at the same time.  The other lash-up I've done is a two engine, head end lash-up, with a mid train helper also part of the lash-up and had no problems at all.  
 
I'll perform the test and get back to you.  Also, I'll try and work the Cruise set up in too.
 
Moke Mike
 
Originally Posted by stan2004:

Couple co

 

1. Early-on you ran the problem engine in a cradle with decoupled motors.  Did the tach'd motor by itself jerk differently for DCS and conventional operation?   You can kind-of sort-of simulate a relatively constant load on the motor with a Q-tip (or whatever) pressed to spinning track wheel.  You can also press against the flat part of the flywheel with less force since there's no gearing at that point.  While not normal operation as discussed, the single motor by itself with a modest artificial load should run smoothly in both DCS and conventional.  I can make a video if this is not clear.  I'm still interested in getting your problem engine working.

 

2. I understand your interest in jumping ahead to MU operation under DCS since that is how you operate your trains, but as you stated early on, 3 of the engines were running stand alone.  That is, I see the correlation between MU and jerky behavior, but I'm not convinced (yet) of causation.  Would the MU engines have failed if they were operating stand-alone?  Obviously we will never know but that is something I've pondered.

 

3. As just a general question, aside from the obvious mix/match benefit and vastly increased prime mover options under DCS, what has been the experience of running AA units synchronized using the PS master-slave hard-wiring vs. 2 independent A units synchronized over DCS...with respect to jerky behavior, failed motors, etc.

M mokemikeOGR Forum Member
Stan, running the engine upside down in DCS, with a speed of 3 mph, as I pushed against the front turning wheel with a Q Tip, slowing the front trucks wheels, didn't change the jerking of the rear wheels and can motor. Then switching to conventional and repeating the check, the pressure against the front wheels did not slow the "steady state speed" of the rear wheels and can motor.
 
I've read and re-read your earlier reference to using the Z4000 to achieve "Speed Control Off".  Then I read the Z4000 transformer manual and it does not make any references to making commands to a P2 engine.  However; it states to refer to the engine manual for making commands to access features. The SD-45 and most other engine manuals state to use the Horn - bell - bell, in 1/2 second intervals to get out of cruise.  I've gotten real proficient using the commands on a Z1000, but have never gotten a two horn blast confirmation of getting out of cruise.  So, I'll go to the Z4000 and remove the leads to the inputs of a TIU and set up a 4 section Gargraves test track and try the Z4000 to get out of cruise.  The video you sent was very easy to view, but most of the video was horns blowing regularly as you pushed the front panel whistle and horn buttons.
 
Therefore, if I understand correctly, I must access the reset function first and then I can use the H-B-B command to get out of cruise while in conventional?
 
The only reason I'm asking for clarification is that while reading the engine manual it doesn't make any reference to accessing the reset feature and the H B B B B B.   Where may I find that instruction as there may me other piece of information I might read too?   Regardless, I'll perform the key functions as you've listed below on the Z4000 and test track.  Sorry about my unfamiliarity with this part, as my operation time, with a P2 engine in conventional is zero.
Once I learned the DCS remote controls for DCS, I never realized there still were some diagnostic features for troubleshooting P2 engines in conventional.
 
Your reference below:
 

Since it something that should take only a couple minutes, I'd like to see the results if only for curiosity sake.  Since you say you have Z-4000 controllers, I attached a video showing how "easy" it is to access the Reset function (H-B-B-B-B-B) and the cruise-control toggle (H-B-B).  This is talking to a PS2 (3V) diesel which is/was the only load attached.

 

Moke Mike

 

 
Originally Posted by mokemike:
Stan, I never ran the engine in conventional with it in the cradle, upside down.
I read your instructions and I'll try that process vs DCS afterwards looking for differences.  On the lash-up question, the only way that I've even run multiple units together, is with DCS, P2 and P3 engines.  I've never read about the hard wire option, for DCS anywhere, however; since I've never had this kind of lash-up problem before.  Under Dave Hikel's help, we lashed up five engines, with DCS using inducters, just to see if we could maintain the five engine operation without tripping any breakers.
 
It worked as an experiment.  We we're trying to test a portion of track that could support two two engine lash-ups on the same track at the same time, if one train accidentally got on the same channel at the same time.  The other lash-up I've done is a two engine, head end lash-up, with a mid train helper also part of the lash-up and had no problems at all.  
 
I'll perform the test and get back to you.  Also, I'll try and work the Cruise set up in too.
 
Moke Mike
 
Originally Posted by stan2004:

Couple co

 

1. Early-on you ran the problem engine in a cradle with decoupled motors.  Did the tach'd motor by itself jerk differently for DCS and conventional operation?   You can kind-of sort-of simulate a relatively constant load on the motor with a Q-tip (or whatever) pressed to spinning track wheel.  You can also press against the flat part of the flywheel with less force since there's no gearing at that point.  While not normal operation as discussed, the single motor by itself with a modest artificial load should run smoothly in both DCS and conventional.  I can make a video if this is not clear.  I'm still interested in getting your problem engine working.

 

2. I understand your interest in jumping ahead to MU operation under DCS since that is how you operate your trains, but as you stated early on, 3 of the engines were running stand alone.  That is, I see the correlation between MU and jerky behavior, but I'm not convinced (yet) of causation.  Would the MU engines have failed if they were operating stand-alone?  Obviously we will never know but that is something I've pondered.

 

3. As just a general question, aside from the obvious mix/match benefit and vastly increased prime mover options under DCS, what has been the experience of running AA units synchronized using the PS master-slave hard-wiring vs. 2 independent A units synchronized over DCS...with respect to jerky behavior, failed motors, etc.

S stan2004OGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by mokemike:
 
Therefore, if I understand correctly, I must access the reset function first and then I can use the H-B-B command to get out of cruise while in conventional?
 
The only reason I'm asking for clarification is that while reading the engine manual it doesn't make any reference to accessing the reset feature and the H B B B B B.   Where may I find that instruction as there may me other piece of information I might read too?   Regardless, I'll perform the key functions as you've listed below on the Z4000 and test track.  Sorry about my unfamiliarity with this part, as my operation time, with a P2 engine in conventional is zero.
Once I learned the DCS remote controls for DCS, I never realized there still were some diagnostic features for troubleshooting P2 engines in conventional.
...

If things are working correctly, performing the HBBBBB performs a conventional reset which turns cruise ON (default).  At 4-sec into the video that double-horn blast is the confirmation.  I suppose if don't regularly use conventional, it's not obvious what the confirmation sounds like.  Then I pressed HBB which turns cruise OFF; the confirmation for that is at 8-sec into the video.  Then HBB again which turns cruise back ON; the confirmation for that is at 12-sec into the video.

 

To your point, if you read through the DCS/PS forum when there's a problem it's common to ask if it occurs conventional, command, or both.  This has proved to be an effective and simple diagnostic tool.  In your case, I am trying to get a bit more insight by asking if how the behavior varies in conventional cruise ON and OFF.  Assuming you can get to that stage be sure to run the engine up to some reasonable speed and confirm the rev'ing sound notches up and down proportional to speed.

 

My comment #3 refers to the AA or ABA sets you buy as a tethered MU from MTH.  The slave A unit has two motors so 4 motors total but speed is controlled from a single tach in the master A unit.  There is only 1 DCS address in the master A.  As stated you buy these as a matched-pair which does not give you the flexibility to mix engines as you are doing, go up to a 5 engine MU as in your experiment, or even run mixed types (steam+diesel).  That is, I was curious if you knew what data has been collected on the reliability wrt jerkiness, motor overheating, etc. between the two types of MU operation whether in conventional or DCS.

M mokemikeOGR Forum Member
Stan, I didn't realize you were referring to ABA sets when you asked about a physical lash-up.  If you would have stated AA or ABA, it would have triggered a different response.  Duh.  Anyway, I've only had  one ABA set fail about 5 months ago, and it was unlike what we're going thru.  It had been in storage for about 3 years and it needed a new battery before trying to start it.  After the battery install, I put it on my test track as I was going to have to change it's address.  It wouldn't start up.  After several checks of all you can think about, I tried to start in conventional and it started right up and ran normally for a conventional operating engine.  I called Eastside Trains and Bob said it sure seems like a board failure.  I put it back in storage and I might take it with me to the other layout 50 miles from here and try and sound download, however; I'm not very optimistic.  I'm off to do some must do chores and I hope to set up the Z4000 this afternoon. After 11 AM, I'll be back out of cell coverage for about 5 hours.
 
Moke Mike
 
 
Originally Posted by stan2004:
Originally Posted by mokemike:
 
Therefore, if I understand correctly, I must access the reset function first and then I can use the H-B-B command to get out of cruise while in conventional?
 
The only reason I'm asking for clarification is that while reading the engine manual it doesn't make any reference to accessing the reset feature and the H B B B B B.   Where may I find that instruction as there may me other piece of information I might read too?   Regardless, I'll perform the key functions as you've listed below on the Z4000 and test track.  Sorry about my unfamiliarity with this part, as my operation time, with a P2 engine in conventional is zero.
Once I learned the DCS remote controls for DCS, I never realized there still were some diagnostic features for troubleshooting P2 engines in conventional.
...

If things are working correctly, performing the HBBBBB performs a conventional reset which turns cruise ON (default).  At 4-sec into the video that double-horn blast is the confirmation.  I suppose if don't regularly use conventional, it's not obvious what the confirmation sounds like.  Then I pressed HBB which turns cruise OFF; the confirmation for that is at 8-sec into the video.  Then HBB again which turns cruise back ON; the confirmation for that is at 12-sec into the video.

 

To your point, if you read through the DCS/PS forum when there's a problem it's common to ask if it occurs conventional, command, or both.  This has proved to be an effective and simple diagnostic tool.  In your case, I am trying to get a bit more insight by asking if how the behavior varies in conventional cruise ON and OFF.  Assuming you can get to that stage be sure to run the engine up to some reasonable speed and confirm the rev'ing sound notches up and down proportional to speed.

 

My comment #3 refers to the AA or ABA sets you buy as a tethered MU from MTH.  The slave A unit has two motors so 4 motors total but speed is controlled from a single tach in the master A unit.  There is only 1 DCS address in the master A.  As stated you buy these as a matched-pair which does not give you the flexibility to mix engines as you are doing, go up to a 5 engine MU as in your experiment, or even run mixed types (steam+diesel).  That is, I was curious if you knew what data has been collected on the reliability wrt jerkiness, motor overheating, etc. between the two types of MU operation whether in conventional or DCS.

Barry BroskowitzBarry BroskowitzOGR Forum Member MEMORIALIZED MEMBER

Mike,

 I called Eastside Trains and Bob said it sure seems like a board failure.

What it reallly sounds like is that the engine's DCS ID# has moved outside of the normal DCS range. The engine possibly only needs to be "recovered" using DCS 4.10 or 4.20.

 

Using a TIU with ID #1 and no other engines on any powered tracks:

Menu/System/Engine Setup/Recover Engine

 

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

 
 
Ingeniero No1Ingeniero No1OGR Forum Member

Moke Mike,

 

Have been reading this thread with great interest; unfortunately, I have really nothing to suggest – I am just learning.

 

One thing I read did not quite make sense. Your original list of engines with problems were are MTH Premier, as denoted by the 20- prefix.

 

20-2105 P2 added in 2006 no lash-up 4:57 hours of op   New file 20-2913

20-2359 P2 issued 2003 no lash-up 38:38 hours of op    New file 20-2913

20-2660 P2 issued 2008 lash-up 36:36 hours of op         New file 20-2913

20-2660 P2 issued 2008 no lash-up 3:59 hours of op      New file 20-2913

20-2459 P2 issued 2006 lash-up 28:38 hours of op         New file 20-2913

20-2270 P2 issued 2000 lash-up 119:25 hours of op       New file 20-2558

20-2778 P2 issued 2007 lash-up 21:21 hours of op      Not avail for download

 

Later on, though, you said that all except one were Rail King.

 

All engines that were very jerky and the one that nearly burned, are now running completely normal after the new sound download except the traction tire replacement engine  Since they were all Rail King SD-45's, except 20-2270, I used same newer P2 Premier sound file for the download.  Engine 20-2270, which is a Dash 9, used a different file for its download.

 

 I admit that I am no expert, but as far as I know all Rail King engines have a 30- prefix. Were the engines catalog numbers correct, or were they 30-'s? Minor detail, but it made me wonder. . .

 

Thx and best of luck!

 

Alex

 

M mokemikeOGR Forum Member
Barry, I've found that acetone or any other stronger chemical is inadequate to prepare for train operations, without sanding the Gargraves track.
 
Especially the black center rail.  From experience, after the super cleaning with a rag, elbow grease and acetone or even lighter fluid, leaves a "varnish" like substance on the track.  After about only 15 minutes of total time of operation over the 200' or more of "brand new" Gargraves cleaned track, it allows the center rollers to pick up a heavy coating of whatever Gargraves coats their track with.
 
The first indication of this coating taking place, is a very noticeable shower of sparks coming from the rollers as the rollers get coated and resistance builds between the roller and track contact.  At the same time the drive wheels are also getting a much lighter coating too.  If you don't stop the engine and re-clean the rollers with several Q Tips and acetone, the engine will eventually stop running as if there were a short.  I was running a TMCC engine about two years ago and I didn't see the sparking right away as I was  watching another section of the tracks.  Then I moved to the new track loop and when the engine came around, I saw the sparks and before I could shut the TMCC Weaver  Hudson down, it stopped.  I could never get a restart.  I had to send it back to Weaver and they repaired it for free and paid for the shipping back to me also.
 
Also, last year, after receiving the new TMCC Lionel #261 Milw. 4-8-4, while running on some of the same section of track, that I thought by now was clean, after several acetone cleanings after many operating sessions, I saw some sparks from the rollers.  I shut the engine down, cleaned the rollers, sanded the track and that was the last time I've seen sparks from Gargraves track.
 
I know that TMCC engines seem to exhibit the sparking earlier than DCS engines as the TMCC engine draw a lot more amperage and the coating starts to make a big difference, earlier.
 
I know I've read somewhere, as I read a lot of articles, from reliable publications, that the author stated to sand the black center rail until you can just barely see the shiny portion of exposed metal under the black Gargraves coating.  However, that isn't why I sand the tracks now. I sand because of the center roller coating issue.
 
Thanks for the input.
 
Moke Mike
 
 
Originally Posted by Barry Broskowitz:

Mike,

sanded  the top of the Gargraves track to remove the top coating

FYI, that is not at all necessary. All that's required is to remove the clear, oily protective coating with a bit of track cleaning solution, a rag and some elbow grease.

 

However, MTH RealTrax needs to have the black coating removed completely.

M mokemikeOGR Forum Member
Oops, I'm sorry about that. From habit, I always use the 20-, ahead of the engine number as about 90% of the engines I've bought since about 2008, have been only Premier. Thanks for catching that.  So, I still used a Premier sound file on all of the engines for the download of the new sound file.  (PS, I like your use of your unique user name.)
 
Originally Posted by Ingeniero No1:

Moke Mike,

 

Have been reading this thread with great interest; unfortunately, I have really nothing to suggest – I am just learning.

 

One thing I read did not quite make sense. Your original list of engines with problems were are MTH Premier, as denoted by the 20- prefix.

 

20-2105 P2 added in 2006 no lash-up 4:57 hours of op   New file 20-2913

20-2359 P2 issued 2003 no lash-up 38:38 hours of op    New file 20-2913

20-2660 P2 issued 2008 lash-up 36:36 hours of op         New file 20-2913

20-2660 P2 issued 2008 no lash-up 3:59 hours of op      New file 20-2913

20-2459 P2 issued 2006 lash-up 28:38 hours of op         New file 20-2913

20-2270 P2 issued 2000 lash-up 119:25 hours of op       New file 20-2558

20-2778 P2 issued 2007 lash-up 21:21 hours of op      Not avail for download

 

Later on, though, you said that all except one were Rail King.

 

All engines that were very jerky and the one that nearly burned, are now running completely normal after the new sound download except the traction tire replacement engine  Since they were all Rail King SD-45's, except 20-2270, I used same newer P2 Premier sound file for the download.  Engine 20-2270, which is a Dash 9, used a different file for its download.

 

 I admit that I am no expert, but as far as I know all Rail King engines have a 30- prefix. Were the engines catalog numbers correct, or were they 30-'s? Minor detail, but it made me wonder. . .

 

Thx and best of luck!

 

Alex

 

S stan2004OGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by mokemike:
...Power was turned on and with about 11 volts and nearly 2 amps on the Z4000 meters, I started the engine that was to have cruise turned off.  The engine started normally and as it moved forward, in conventional, it was VERY jerky??  Increasing voltage did not change the jerky operation.  Tried other side of the Z4000 with same results.

What?!  You're seeing ~20 Watts for an engine starting up?  That's 5 times the power draw for any PS2 engine I've seen!  And this was on both sides of the Z4000?  That's something to look at.  If one of your other "good" Z4000s also reads ~2 Amps on engine startup at 11V , then maybe there IS a hardware problem in the engine with a wiring short, a PS2 board problem, etc..

 

I like the idea of an isolated ~10 foot test track.  I'm sure that will come in handy in the future.

 

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

 

So if you hook up the problem engine to a "good" Z4000, do we still have the situation of jerky behavior under DCS but smooth behavior in conventional?  And can you now perform the task of toggling between Cruise on and off in conventional to see if there's a difference?

G GGGOGR Forum Member

Stan, Lets not scare people:-) 2 amps at a low voltage such as 11 V is not 5x normal start up for an engine with lights and possibly smoke on.

 

Routinely I have seen engine sit on a test track with smoke off at .7amps on the Z-4000 meter running lights and sounds.  With smoke it could be 1 to 1.5 amps.  So maybe 1.5-2x more.

 

Some diesel and steam also have higher draws based on the sound profile and how much power the audio amp is drawing or how much power the heating element is getting.

 

Raising voltage lowers the current draw seen, but obviously power is the same.

 

Now testing a board out of the engine is a different story.  G

Last edited by GGG
M mokemikeOGR Forum Member
Gunrunnerjohn. I'll do anything to make things more interesting.  Could you tell me what you mean by the "entire thread'?  Could you perhaps reply with an example?  Are you referring to the mechanics of how the Forum reply works?
Are you referring to the "+" or "(") at the bottom of the last reply.  I've tried using the "+", however; it never permits me to open the reply.  Clicking on the (") opens the last entry and allows me to make a reply.   No one has ever mentioned this before so I would really like to get what I'm doing, correct and easier to understand.  If it's the mechanics of the reply, please list the correct steps to change from what I've been doing to what is easier to read.
 
In Advance, thanks for your help.   Moke Mike
 
Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:

Mike, can I suggest you stop quoting the entire thread in each reply?  It's impossible to know what point you're trying to make!

M mokemikeOGR Forum Member

The next two attachment, 138 show video using the bad Z4000, with jerky movements, uncommanded bell sounds, high amps.  Also, the video has been clipped by the I Phone program as too long to send as originally recorded.  139 shows

the engine "out of cruise" using the bad Z4000, in conventional.  Engine performed smoothly and fast.

Attachments

Hide
Files (2)
138 I Phone.eml
Bad Z4000, very jerky, bell on all the time, high amps, convent.
139 I Phone.eml
Bad Z4000, conventional, fast and smooth
G GGGOGR Forum Member

Mike, this is not about being interesting.  It is about solving this issue for you.  I have to admit, I have lost interest on this based on the length of the post, difficulty in tracking, the random troubleshooting and failure to close any issues identified.  Such as a faulty Z-4000.  I don't know what Stan's logic is for having you do what he has you doing.  Maybe he can explain.

 

Just a recommendation, but it may be better for you and Stan to go off line and solve the problem/problems and then report what it was.  Not sure what value this post is to forum members because of the inability to follow.  Maybe I am just slower then the rest.  Just an opinion.  Sorry I can't help more.  G

M mokemikeOGR Forum Member

GGG, Stan wanted to see the difference in two different areas.  The difference between the good Z4000 and the bad Z4000.  He also wanted to see each engine in conventional, then conventional with "crusie off" and finally in DCS.

 

Contact Stan and I'll be glad to exchange e-mails with him as uploading the videos from my I Phone to my e-mail, to My Documents, to the Forum is labor and time consuming.  If I could just e-mail him the videos from my I Phone to his e-mail, we would save a lot of time.

 

I don't know the troubleshooting value of each operation as I don't have hardly any experience with P2 engines in conventional and zero time in "out of cruise" however; Stan felt there was diagnostic value to what I'm sending in multiple states of operation.  I don't have the knowledge to have any conclusions.

 

Let me know the Forum's wishes.

 

Thanks,  Moke Mike

M mokemikeOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by mokemike:

The next two attachment, 138 show video using the bad Z4000, with jerky movements, uncommanded bell sounds, high amps.  Also, the video has been clipped by the I Phone program as too long to send as originally recorded.  139 shows

the engine "out of cruise" using the bad Z4000, in conventional.  Engine performed smoothly and fast.

Attachments

Hide
Files (2)
140 I Phone.eml
Retest of bad Z4000 and it's affect on the engine
141 I Phone.eml
Good Z4000 in DCS voltage fluctuations
M mokemikeOGR Forum Member
The other information that Stan wanted to see was the problems on an isolated test track that could confirm that the problems we're seeing are not issues related to the layout for this particular engine and the Z4000's that are involved.
 
  * * Please advise me how to "go offline"
 
Thanks   Moke Mike
 
Originally Posted by Barry Broskowitz:

GGG,

Just a recommendation, but it may be better for you and Stan to go off line and solve the problem/problems and then report what it w

Yes - I couldn't agree more!!

M mokemikeOGR Forum Member

I've gone to Stan's last posting and clicked on "Stan2004". That takes me to a Tweet option or G Mail.  Am I supposed to open a G Mail Account and that will allow me to contact Stan2004, without any further e-mail address?  Don't I still have to know his real e-mail such a johnDoe@hotmail.com. ???

 

I wouldn't bother you with this question if I could find "FAQ's" and look up the answer there.  In the last 6 years of using the Forum, I've never had the need to "go off line" or contact someone on the Forum with e-mail. I thought privacy was such a high issue that the only safe method was to use the "handles" of the Forum members.

 

Thanks  Moke Mike

Barry BroskowitzBarry BroskowitzOGR Forum Member MEMORIALIZED MEMBER

Mike,

 

Unfortunately, Stan does not list his E-mail addredss in his profile. Just stop posting and wait for him to E-mail you, once he reads these last few posts.

 

Then the two of you can E-mail each other to continue to address your issues privately until they're, hopefully, resolved. Once you have answers, you can start a new thread to let the rest if us know what you've determined.

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