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I recently got the Lionel LCCA Lincoln Funeral train and love it.  I realize some people think it's a morbid topic, but that model made me look into funeral trains in general: McKinley's is interesting, Stalin's (the loco was bright red - how appropriate), Churchill's . . . Eisenhower's seems to have been the last before aircraft took over the duty - and arguably one nearly as famous as Lincoln's - FDR's.  More people saw this train and paid their respects at stations along the way than had seen Lincoln's, but things being what they were then, it was a smaller portion of the American population.

 

So I changed plans for a few projects and my next will be making a model of this train.  Part of this is because I have just about all the "parts" now. 

 

Amazon provided me with FDR's Funeral Train - only a few pictures, but lots of detail.  Like Lincoln's, the "FDR funeral train" was pulled by many different locos over its course across many different railroads' lines.  I've decided to model it as it left Warm Springs, GA (where FDR died) on the morning of April 13, 1945, to return FDR's body to Washington DC.  

 

On that morning it was pulled by two Southern "light Pacifics" - numbers 1262 and 1337.  I'll research those some more but I hope the Lionel Southern Crescent (mine's already repainted black) will do - they were rather small Pacifics (the Legacy Southern Crescent is over an inch shorter and smaller than the Legacy Blue Comet - I guess that makes it "light"?) and it looks about right compared to the photos.  Seven Pullman cars including FDR's armored, 142 ton car (coincidentally, I have seven bought used to repaint for another, now cancelled, project), a diner, a baggage car converted to communications/cypher car, and end loader car to car four secret service '38 Cadillacs, baggage, etc.  

 

This is a long term project - I will work on it on and off for over a year, I expect.  I inte d to do the interiors, etc.  Eleven cars and two locos in all.  An advantage with respect to "this is too morbid" point of view: by removing one car I will get the "normal" FDR presidential train (officially called "US One" -- a forerunner of Air Force One, but referred to be the railroads just as POTUS for Pres of the US) -- remember, Truman was the first Pres to routinely travel by aircraft - so this train was, basically, the ultimate and final "US One"  train.  Very cool!

 

If anyone knows details about Southern's "light Pacifics" and specifically numbers 1262 and 1337, I'd appreciate the info.  The book gives me the names, interior arrangements, and colors of decor, etc., of all the other cars on the train.  But it has just one picture, and a few sentences on the "light Pacific" locomotives.

 

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Thank you for reminding me that it is in the Smithsonian, this clarified things a lot.  

 

 

Pacific # 1401 was apparently not at all like the first two locos to pull the train - 1262 and 1337 are described in the book as "well past their point where locomotives were trusted to take charge of first-class passenger trains" They  were swapped out after only a short distance for numbers 1409 and 1394 which were in better condition, I guess, and then in Greenville, for 1401 which is described in the book as "the pride of Southern's locomotive fleet . . . " she was the Southern Crescent engine in "apple-green trimmed in gold . . . while glimmering aluminum adorned her nose, drum, rims, and running boards . . . "   So, I'll chane my model, get another Southern crescent and use my other as 1394 . . . 

Lee,

 

You may want to contact the FDR Presidential Library's archivist for some research assistance.  For a fee, they'll even copy photos for you.

 

http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.e...ons/photographs.html

 

http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.e...esearchservices.html

 

There's a photo of the double-headed engines of the FDR funeral train on this web page about one third of the way down the page.

 

http://www.epacha.org/Pages/U_S_Constitution.aspx

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lee

The Southern Railway changed the doubleheaded Pacifics on the Roosevelt Train at each Division Point between Atlanta and Washington. Ps-4 #1401 was the only Funeral Train engine to carry the American Flag which is why the Southern Management selected it for the Smithsonian over the engine that Spencer Shops had already prepared and had on standby.   .......from TIES Magazine.

 

TIEs did six issues on the Southern Railway 4-6-2 "Light" Pacifics including the  P,Ps-1,2,5, etc. The Ps-3s were light 4-6-2s for use on the rickety trestles on the approach to New Orleans. A 1994 issue covered the Harrison Pacifics: "Those Aristocratic Pacifics" by Dale Roberts. The Ps-4s were the Southern's Heavy Pacifics.

 

There is some Ps-4 info on the Forum's "Southern Photo"' thread by C. Sam.

But the best source will be Ed King, TIES Steam Editor and a member of this Forum. Ed wrote several articles on the Pacifics with Dale Roberts as well as under his own name: "Whence the Ps-4. Really?" being one.

Last edited by Dewey Trogdon
Originally Posted by Putnam Division:

RFK's Funeral Train has been well-documented.

 

Peter

 

Peter that video brought back a memory for me as young enthusiastic boy who loved trains, a day of watching TV with my grandparents ( with my grandmother crying) trying to understand how people came together to support each other at a difficult moment in history and yet at the same time absorbing every move of that train. Thank You!!

Thank you everyone for the help with this.  the info really helps.  I've just finished replacing the last of my Fastrack with Atlas this morning (will post a neat video later) so I will be starting this project soon: going to start with making a model of FDR's personal Pullmann, the Ferdinand Magellan, which was armored, and the "end loading baggage car" which the Secret service used to carry four 1938 Cadillacs.  I'll post pictures along the way.  

 

Again, thanks for the info, and interest!

The Southern Railway's Ps-4's pulled FDR's train most of the way to D.C., I think.

They certainly weren't "light" Pacifics (essentially they were USRA Heavies with

somewhat smaller drivers to suit a hilly track profile).

 

Too bad that you painted your PS-4 black (though I like the black, actually). 

 

Now you have to buy another one; maybe two, as FDR's funeral train was double-headed

all the way, I believe. Lionel will be very happy; whip out that Visa.

Late last year I decided I wanted to have a model of the Ferdinand Magellan.  I was never able to find one of the 3rd Rail versions, so I made one myself and finished it about a month ago.  I started out with the Lionel Seneca Valley Heavyweight observation car from the Commodore Vanderbilt set from the late 1990s.  While it is not exactly like the Ferdinand Magellan (it would require major modifications to make it look exact) I am extremely happy with how it turned out.  I also renamed four additional cars (duplicates of others from this set) and named one Conneaut, the car that carried his casket and frequently rode in front of the Ferdinand Magellan.

 

Side view.

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Rear view.

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Markers and rear platform lit.

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Original Lionel Heavyweight "Seneca Valley."

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I saw RFK's funeral train when it passed through Baltimore. My father read the route in the paper, and found that it would run by a large playing field on the Pennsy route (I guess PC would be more accurate). So my family and I were trackside (along with many others) to watch it pass. Nowadays that area is so bad you'd risk getting robbed to go there...

 

 

Originally Posted by Putnam Division:

RFK's Funeral Train has been well-documented.

 

Peter

 

Dear Lee Willis,

 

I am organizing a project for a train Museum in Mexico, I would like to see the steps progress of your project, could be great to exhibit your model in the museum with your permission. I would like to form the funeral train of RFK but I found just the locos from williams but not the cars, do you know who can help me? Thank you for your reply.

Claudio Boccherini

Originally Posted by bayard56:

Hi guys,

For my project I am searching people can help me  on the FDR funeral train and RFK funeral train, I mean the pitcures or model drawings of the wagons the locos so I can reproduce thank you for the answer

I can help with the Robert Kennedy funeral train.

There are very few images of the train, from off the train that I have been able to find, but plenty of pics from the train as it passed through communities and stations.

The consist, as best as I can ascertain, is 2x PC GG1 locos, followed by a PRR collestory roof Tuscan baggage car, (I used a Weaver), about 30 PRR streamlined silver passenger cars, (I used MTH Premier and Williams 70 footers with modified interiors) and I can assemble about 14, and the rear observation car that carried the coffin, was a PRR Tuscan car No.120. I used a K-Line one, which is a lovely piece.

This information was obtained from various members of the forum, so, given that a number of members advised me of the same thing, I would accept their recollections as accurate. The only thing I've never found out, is the actual numbers of the locos.

I promised to post pics a week or so ago, I was unable to take them on the day, but will again soon.

Dear Dave Allen,

 

Thanks a lot with your help, I see the RFK final journey on youtube the observatory car is a Penn Central isnt'it? and if you see the car was number 120 check well. Can you help me in working assembling the convoy? I explain to you, I am organizing a model museum. I am the curator and director but  unfortunately I do not have time for working on models then I am manually a disaster I am not able in such things If you can help in assembling the convoy with 14 cars  you tell me How  I can recompense you. hoping to ear from you as soon as possible Claudio

Hi Claudio, the 120 Observation car I have is PRR. If it says PC on the video you have seen then of course that is correct. Because this train was constructed at a time when PC had just formed, from the amalgamation of NYC and PRR these mix ups would have been common place. Are you asking me to source the train components for you?

I'm in Australia, so it would be easier for you to contact a retailer in the US. Let me know where you are, I might be able to give you some help.

best wishes

Dave

Dear Dave,

 

Thanks a lot for your help yes I would like if you can source the train components for me but no all the 14 cars if it is possible I would like the 2 GG 1 locomotives of PC with the correct numbers plus the baggage car,  4 others cars plus and  the observatory car with the coffin. It could be a problem to exhibit in a window museum all the 14 cars. Can you make the interior too as were exactly? I am in Mexico because the museum will be in Mexico but I have an address in Hidalgo Texas were all I bought arrive with an agent of mine You could send all there in USA. Please let me know How much it will cost to recompense you of your work. Waiting for your kindly answer Claudio Boccherini

Originally Posted by Dave Allen:
Originally Posted by bayard56:

Hi guys,

. The only thing I've never found out, is the actual numbers of the loc

David According to information on Train Orders.com:

 

"Robert Kennedy's 21 car funeral train left New York City for Washington, DC. The train was led by GG1 number 4901 with number 4903 trailing, and ended with Penn Central open-platform business car number 120 carrying the body of the late Senator.

A three car pilot train pulled by GG1 number 4932 ran ahead of the funeral train and GG1s numbers 4900 and 4910 followed light as back-up motive power. "

 

http://www.trainorders.com/dis.../read.php?11,1687575


Originally Posted by Brad Rock:
Originally Posted by Dave Allen:
Originally Posted by bayard56:

Hi guys,

. The only thing I've never found out, is the actual numbers of the loc

David According to information on Train Orders.com:

 

"Robert Kennedy's 21 car funeral train left New York City for Washington, DC. The train was led by GG1 number 4901 with number 4903 trailing, and ended with Penn Central open-platform business car number 120 carrying the body of the late Senator.

A three car pilot train pulled by GG1 number 4932 ran ahead of the funeral train and GG1s numbers 4900 and 4910 followed light as back-up motive power. "

 

http://www.trainorders.com/dis.../read.php?11,1687575


Brad, thanks very much for this extra information, it now gives me a complete picture of these details.

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