We need a new Illinois Central City of New Orleans.  I know that it has been made before, but one with 21" cars would be nice.  K-Line's is still the best cars that I know of, but need a good matching set of E units.

Art

Interesting subject. The current issue with GGD producing certain types of passenger equipment is related to the original manufacturer of the prototype cars. Railroads such as the UP, GN, and maybe NP had their lightweight/streamlined passenger cars built by a different manufacturer than Budd, thus those "other" cars have rivets. Until GGD figures out how to produce passenger cars with "rivet details", we might not see name trains for the UP, GN, and NP for awhile.

I agree, very interesting topic. Art's comments highlights just one named train that is begging to be done. There are many more.

To add to this question, how about the size that most O-Gauge fans would not only like, but actually buy. The current 21" car market has products with the most scale details, but is  limited in demand because of track requirements. Would the market support 15" & 18" named passenger trains, though not scale in size, but have scale type details? Cost of course would be a consideration.

Is there more demand for named passenger trains and cars like those produced by MTH that are generic from set to set, but would have the correct name and colors? Is this what most buyers are looking for?

It will be interesting to see how the Forum members react to this topic.

Either the Duquesne, the Juniata or the Broadway Limited.

The Broadway Limited??????

You mean that there haven't been enough Broadway Limited passenger train sets offered/sold, scale length or otherwise?

Posted by Brian:

 

To add to this question, how about the size that most O-Gauge fans would not only like, but actually buy. The current 21" car market has products with the most scale details, but is  limited in demand because of track requirements. Would the market support 15" & 18" named passenger trains

So let me speak up.  There are two considerations here,  #1 is track size.  You are quiet correct many operators do not have the 72" diameter curves necessary to give a 21' car justice.  My layout will never be 72" and therefore unable to accommodate a 21" car.  I suspect the majority of members in this forum - "HiRail, O27 and Traditional 3 Rail O Gauge" fall into this category.   

#2 is cost.  GGD makes equipment for a specialized market.  One that is willing to invest heavily in the hobby.  The upcoming Sunset limited set has a listed price of $2499.95.  Each one of the cars sells, individually, for $249.95 each.  (Why don't they just round of to $250 and save the number typing?)

I guess that is why Lionel and MTH survive because they look at a different demo of their buyers.  GGD makes beautiful equipment and have been around long enough to know their customer's demo and have learned how to survive. 

For me personally, I doubt GGD could make a 15-18" passenger car at a price I, and most (?) of our members would be interested in purchasing.  So the answer, I surmise, is that GGD will not make anything less then their typical beautifully detailed 21" car and thankfully get $250 smackers each.

Didn't K-Line do the aluminum cars without concern for Budd or other mfr.?  I remember trying to find an NP K-Line RPO.  Or if K-Line just did Budd cars, non-using roadnames are aprototypical?  Since K-Line did the California Zephyr, what else is

there?...oh, yes, the Yampa Valley Mail and the Expositiion Flyer.   The Flyer was heavyweights behind steam.  In lightweights, head end cars, only,  shorter than 21" are acceptable.

A typical SP Sunset Limited consist from the early 1950s included 15-cars, so make that $3750.00, plus power. Beautiful for certain, but how many layouts can accommodate a 30' train?

Don't know about K-Line's reference prototypes were, but NP and GN were buying Budd cars as early as 1954-55. 

I posted a topic to see if anyone was interested in a Silver Meteor 5-car set from GGD:

https://ogrforum.com/t...eor-train-from-ggd-1

But it doesn't seem anyone north or west of Richmond wants anything but the usual stuff.

Judging by the secondary market for K-Line's 21" passenger cars, there appears to be a market for scale length cars that is well below the GGD price point. 

On a more mundane level, I just shake my head and shrug my shoulders at LIONEL putting a dome car among the 4-cars included in the Texas Special Signature series NY set.  No dome was used in the prototype train.  LIONEL could have included a sleeper/roomette from existing extrusions which, although not prototypical in window arrangement/interior detail, would have at least the virtue of representing a car actually used on the train.

I would agree with the sentiment that most of us in High Rail tend to pursue a "reasonable facsimile thereof"  philosophy.  Because of the constraints listed above, very few would be willing or able to spec out scale, complete name trains.   On my layout, my passenger consists are typically 5-6 cars - I could run 10, but then nothing fits into my sidings and the operations suffer because it limits the trains I can run.   

As far as the manufacturers are concerned, it would be hard for, say, MTH to do a complete name train run because the audience would be so limited and the tooling for unique cars would be cost prohibitive.   In both Railking and Premier, you can cobble together a pretty good approximation, replete with express reefers, fast freight, and others.  I run a pretty good looking Railking Dreyfuss Hudson that looks pretty convincing.  

IMO, if you're 'thing' is running complete, scale named trains or prototypical freights, O gauge may not be for you;  N and HO make it a LOT easier.  

I just checked and I did find that green K-Line NP RPO I was hunting just as the K-Line

dumping ended....it is 21" long!  The Yampa Valley Mail ran with usually one light weight, and one heavyweight...coach and RPO/ baggage combine, so no worry about 30' length on that name train.

In my opinion there needs to be action in not offering 5 car sets and 2 car subsets.  If I want 5 coaches, I need to buy 2 or 3 5 car sets to get what I want and have 2 cars with the same names and numbers. (plus, what can you do with 2 PRR combines?) I have 7 of the Weaver PRR mail/baggage cars I run with a few MTH R50B and Atlas PRR REA boxcars as a mail train. I was able to get what I wanted for the train.

Sell individual cars unlettered, with rub on lettering sheets with various names and numbers to make what I want.  

I'd like to see LIONEL/MTH or anyone for that matter, produce a 15" NP North Coast Limited set of 6-8 cars; perhaps a 4-pak and a couple of 2-paks.  Critical, however, is the paint should extend across the ends of the car; i.e. maintain the two-tone green separated by the white stripe.

I personally cannot get past LIONEL's failure to maintain two-tone colors and striping across the plastic car ends on the 15" cars.  The paint/striping transcends, for me, other detail add-ons, window configurations, etc.

I mentioned that I shake my head at LIONEL's use of a dome car in the TS signature series 4-pak, I also have yet to find a full dome NP North Coast Limited prototype car, let alone four of them in a single train; yet, that 4-car dome set is what LIONEL offered some years ago--DUH.

I suggest that MTH retain their current Passenger Car Roster because of the favorable price point.

I would also suggest that Mike make more prototypical Passenger Cars like he has for the European Market which are at another price point comprobable to Lionels price.

Mikey

The reason that Lionel and MTH offer domes in trains that never had domes is that domes look cool.

Most buyers of model trains, including people who have been in the hobby a long time, have no idea what cars the were in the prototype passenger consist for a real railroad.  Very few people know or care about putting together a scale consist.  The people who do want a prototypical consist want full length cars.

I model the New Haven.  It pains me to have to buy a NH dome car in a set to get the other cars that I want to model the Merchant's Limited.  My current NH Merchant's Limited set has 15 inch K-Line cars only because I couldn't find the 21 inch K-Line cars.  The K-Line cars are OK for now.  The dome sits in the box under the layout.  The train is pulled by scale FL9s made by 3rd Rail.

It is interesting read posts about people wanting short cars to get around sharp curves but want everything else on the car to be prototypical.  This is the reason that more people aren't into 2-rail O gauge.  2-rail requires a lot of space that most people don't have.     

I would love to have a prototypical NH Merchant's Limited set.  

Joe

I have come to learn that "named trains" and colorfully schemed historical train are two different animals.

I LOVE the Daylight I'd like to see a collection of beautifully designed passenger trains and have 3 or 4 to run on my layout. The Empire Builder had an attractive motif as did the Crescent Limited. Certainly the Super Chief was notable. A Tuscan PRR passenger set pulled by a scale GG1 is on my wish list.

I have seen picture of a "modern day" Wabash Cannonball that consisted of a dirtied up diesel and assortment of motley coach cars  - great if you want to model work-a-day trains. (I like to save that for freight trains)

Kind of my take on a great topic...

I want a Hooterville Cannonball set, withoptional Christmas decorations!   lol

I love name trains and although I like scale passenger cars it is a non-starter for me. 18 and 21" cars just won't work for me. 

I would like to see the 15" cars to be a clone of the more scale cars Except shorter. K-line did it a decade ago so it can be done. Can GGD or. Any other mfg. do it and keep the prices reasonable, I guess we will see. 

Here's a list of named passenger trains starting with the letters "A" & "B".  Pick your poison!  

Here are the rest:

• C
• D–H
• I–M
• N–R
• S–Z

Hey, Erik! really liked those pics, especially the last car on the train.

Wanna buy a real one?

http://www.ozarkmountainrailca...hio-Linoma---REDUCED

Thanks Brian,  but clicking on any of your list from C thru Z seems to give an invalid link. I guess there are enough A's and B's to clean out the healthiest wallet.

Does anyone have any idea of the ratio of sales that K-line had when they offered all three lengths of the same RR?  In their 2004 Second Edition catalog, on pages 40 thru 43 they offered 15" and 18" and 21 " Santa Fe passenger cars.  

How well the shorter cars sold in relation to the 21" cars might give some indication of the potential market for GGD.  I think people expect to buy 15" cars for much less than 21" cars, as is born out by various sales one can observe.   Yet the cost of producing a 15" car is the same as the 21" except for the extra materials which would be a small part of the total price.   

In my opinion, the MTH Orient Express ten car train may be the best overall compromise for a scale length passenger consist.  It has almost no rolling friction, very little weight to be pulled up grades, and is beautifully lighted with LEDs, including table lamps.  I think their moderate/high price is about as far as an the train buying public will endure.  Anything higher and I think it becomes talk amongst yourselves.

City of Los Angeles

Detroit & Mackinac Railway • Lake Huron Passenger Cars & Engine. 

"

Would the market support 15" & 18" named passenger trains, though not scale in size, but have scale type details? Cost of course would be a consideration.

Is there more demand for named passenger trains and cars like those produced by MTH that are generic from set to set, but would have the correct name and colors? Is this what most buyers are looking for?"

most definitely interested in 15" named trains and would want them to be accurate and not generic.  if the train did not have domes, then don't make domes.  correct observation car (would really like a blunt end UP obs and the end of a correct City of Portland...unlike that mixed up mash that serves as my CoP).

I'd like to see GGD do the complete 1947 Olympian Hiawatha as Brooks Stevens designed it, with the "broken" stripe. The as-designed consist was never completed, as Pullman-Standard was so late delivering some of the cars that the Milwaukee Road had simplified the paint scheme by the time P-S finished the observation cars. Nonetheless, that is one of the very few trains I would spend that kind of money for and I think there are enough knowledgeable Milwaukee Road fans to make it a viable project. 

Sorry Bill, I guess copying the links didn't work.  Try this:

Lists of named passenger trains

I have zero interest in Milwaukee Road, but I'll find a way to include a Skytop lounge facsimile in a passenger train--thank you, TCA.

I would think that one would have a better chance of being made if the train was jointly run by several railroads.  Just browsing the list I saw several that ran on at least four roads.

Jan

Still pushing Scott Mann to do a prototypical North Coast Limited. The brochure included with the City of Seattle says it and the Empire Builder are under consideration. I would also consider jumping on a prototypical City Of New Orleans, or Panama Limited love that ILC color scheme. GGD is doing the Pullman smoothside finish sets now in many roads. I have a few NP Pullmans in 2 tone green but still need the four domes.