Need HELP with Crumbling Lionel Passenger Trucks!!

There are available, though I don't know if they have a dozen of them.

Those are heavyweight trucks, John. Lionel has the new streamline trucks in stock used on the 21" cars but they don't have couplers. You could add the kinematic couplers to the cars but it would get pretty pricey by the time you get all the parts. 

Pete

Yep, they were the ones that popped into view on a search.  I don't see a whole lot of available 6-wheel passenger trucks on the parts site.

Do you think it might be possible to transfer the coupler mechanisms from the crumbled trucks to the new 21" versions? Those parts are steel, and they're just fine. But I don't know how they're attached and if they could be removed and reattached to the newer style ones. Any thoughts?

David O.

On looking at the pictures of the 21" trucks, it almost looks like I could transfer the silver side frames and wheels over to the existing truck frames with the couplers on them. Not positive without trying it, but I see 4 screws that look like the same position holding the trucks together. Hmmm....

There are a lot of people in the world worried about some silly virus, when we all know that Zinc=pest is the real problem! 

Looks Like Brassuers has them in stock as well: https://traindoctor.com/service/lionel/3600to6300.php

David:  Did you ever find a source for these passenger car trucks, or a workable substitute?  I have the same Canadian Pacific set with a single truck with broken side frames -- not nearly as bad as your situation :-(   

In my case, the truck might have broken when a wheel set snagged in a switch, which effectively yanked hard on the truck side frame.  Hopefully I don't have zinc pest setting in.

In any case, I'm still needing to find a replacement.

@MHK58 posted:

In my case, the truck might have broken when a wheel set snagged in a switch, which effectively yanked hard on the truck side frame.  Hopefully I don't have zinc pest setting in.

If it broke without dropping it, I suspect you probably do have zinc pest.

Hi, you can order the 2-axle trucks from Lionel’s 21” streamlined cars. I ordered a bunch of them and asked my local Lionel tech to transfer the zinc parts over to the existing trucks. They came out perfectly. If you can’t figure out the part number, I can try to find it for you.

Here is the link to the 21" streamlined trucks I ordered. You transfer the silver outside zinc truck frames to the old steel truck inner frames - they line up just fine. I replaced all of the zinc side frames on my CP 18" aluminum cars are they look beautiful. 2 philips screws on each side and they come right off. The steel inner frames on the old aluminum cars are fine, it's just the zinc outer frames which disintegrate.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...L-W-MAG-NO-CPLR-SLVR

Simple.  Its 2023.  Zinc Pest and paint rash should NOT be an issue at the manufacturing level.  Casting with the properly balanced ZAMAC should be the easiest thing to spec and audit.

@Mike W. posted:

Simple.  Its 2023.  Zinc Pest and paint rash should NOT be an issue at the manufacturing level.  Casting with the properly balanced ZAMAC should be they easiest thing to spec and audit.

The cars are from 2010 so it seems but regardless I 100% agree with your statement.  I have some Santa Fe cars that I have replaced the trucks on from around the same time period of 2010.

@Mike W. posted:

Simple.  Its 2023.  Zinc Pest and paint rash should NOT be an issue at the manufacturing level.  Casting with the properly balanced ZAMAC should be they easiest thing to spec and audit.

You know that and most of the rest of us know that, but it keeps happening.

Hi All....

I'm by no means an expert on this. But I did a quick a read on several web sites and they concur.

The culprit is lead that's either mixed in with the zinc purposely or through contamination along with the items being stored in a warm environment that has a humidity level of 65% or more.  (sorry for the run-on sentence ). It's the humidity that accelerates the rotting process.

I live in the desert and even in this environment I run a dehumidifier in my train room. I was amazed how much moisture that thing pulls out of the air!

Just following up on what another poster stated- the trucks from the current production 21” passenger cars have identical side frames to the trucks you are looking to replace. I went through this with my Lionel Santa Fe cars that also have this problem. With some minor additional work, you can use the complete truck assembly from the 21” cars if you want. Use a set number from a 21” car set and go on Lionel’s website to source the parts. I was able to get silver trucks from Lionel’s 21” Santa Fe cars and they were a perfect match. If they are not currently available, you may have to use a different color truck and paint them.

@MartyE posted:

The cars are from 2010 so it seems but regardless I 100% agree with your statement.  I have some Santa Fe cars that I have replaced the trucks on from around the same time period of 2010.

Yeah generally speaking date wise.  But diecast product marketers know very well now that both zinc pest and outgassing of diecast bodies which cause paint blisters have been major issues.  The 1990-2001ish Korean sourced Lionel scale steamers have paint rash often.  Luckily the 2005 ESE Hudson from the CCII doesn't have this issue and was one of the last Korean Steamers.  This is not zinc pest but is improperly cured casting where trapped gases from the casting process work their way up under the painted body causing blisters and ultimately the paint chips off.  Check the painted chassis of the 1990 Pennsy Burro crane.  This is a classic case of paint blistering.  I bet that casting was made in Korea or Taiwan and shipped to Mt Clemens.  The zinc pest as noted above is a lower grade of zamac combined with poor metallurgy.  Each of these are easy to prevent.  Nothing runs a customer off like watching a $1500 loco degrade in front of you.

Thanks for the pointer on how to get the sideframes.  I would not have figured that out.  I'll order the parts and get it fixed. :-)

As for whether I've got full-blown case of zinc pest, I guess time will tell.   If warmth and high humidity accelerates zinc pest, at least I'm on the other end of that scale with a cool and mostly low humidity environment.

I really appreciate all the help!

David --

I ordered and received the replacement truck.  Just finished replacing the bad side frames this evening, and my 18" Canadian Pacific passenger car is back on the rails!  Doing one truck is a bit tedious with all the small parts.  Your doing 16 of them took a lot of patience!

It's nice to see the full six car set running again with my Canadian Pacific F3 AA pair.  Thanks again. :-)

@Junior posted:

Hi All....

I'm by no means an expert on this. But I did a quick a read on several web sites and they concur.

The culprit is lead that's either mixed in with the zinc purposely or through contamination along with the items being stored in a warm environment that has a humidity level of 65% or more.  (sorry for the run-on sentence ). It's the humidity that accelerates the rotting process.

I live in the desert and even in this environment I run a dehumidifier in my train room. I was amazed how much moisture that thing pulls out of the air!

So what are the correct storage practices to keep this from happening or is it just a matter of time?

@Jeff B. Haertlein posted:

So what are the correct storage practices to keep this from happening or is it just a matter of time?

It either happens or it doesn't.  It is a flaw in the material when caste.  If the material was correctly made without contaminants it will be fine.

It's important to note that zinc pest can take a number of years to actually progress to the point where crumbling occurs.

As a result you may not even know that it's present until quite some time after it starts.

Mike