Need help with CW-80 no power out issue

Is this a relatively new transformer? Lionel has been very good about replacing defective CW-80s. Contact them through the "Service/Repair Question" heading on this link.

 

http://www.lionel.com/ContactUs/

Call Lionel to see if they will replace it. Sounds like there is some internal short circuit. The fan runs directly from the transformer ( through a single diode) and should come on as soon as its plugged in. Same for the green light. Sounds to me like some internal component got too hot and shorted out.

It is perplexing because those circuits are so simple.  Diode tested SAT and no bad traces.  Can't figure out why no light or fan when AC and 5VDC is fine.  G

GGG,

   The CW-80 was built as a throw away transformer, the new 180 maybe a different matter,  however the CW-80 is an entry level transformer, if you have the money replace it with an old KW or ZW.

PCRR/Dave

I saw the GW-180 at a local shop, for $239 I'll pass!  Since the PH180 is as low as $75 from on-line stores, what's all the money going for, the CW-80 shell?

gunrunnerjohn,

   You and me both John, I will pass on this CW-80 stuff.  Keep my old KW's & ZW's along with my Z4k, I have given more CW-80 transformers to children to replace their other failed CW-80's than I care to remember.  One of the kids actually went thru 3 CW-80 transformers before he got one that worked for him.  From what I understand the newer models are a lot better but I just can't see messing with them, when there are other proven transformers around that last darn near for ever.  Please tell me why I would want to pay $239.00 for a GW-180 when I can pick up a old ZW for $125.00 that will last for ever, and runs my DCS layout perfectly.

PCRR/Dave

For me it is about understanding the failure mode and if I can fix it.  G

Yeah, it would be interesting to know. I have a similar CW-40 acquired for free, blown capacitor on the board and possibly a bad power MOS-FET (?), one of two that looks blistered. I suspect it's not practical to repair but the unit could be easily adapted to a fixed voltage supply.

Ace,

   You make my point for me, I do not want to deal with a transformer that has a history of these kind of problems.  I know you like to tinker with this kind of stuff, and that is fine, but for a young boy or someone just entering the train hobby this kind of a transformer is more than just frustrating.  I am not big on throw away equipment, in fact I want something that lasts many life times.  I just looked at a small 1033 Lionel 90W transformer yesterday, the old girl worked like band new,

why would I want to mess with a CW-40 or 80 with it's poor performance history,

when I can pick up an older proven high quality 1033, for the kids to use on their layout, or for me to run street cars with, even better why not use an old KW which are available for about $75.00 completely rebuilt.  I really can not understand why people even use these CW type transformers, other than they come free, with some of the ready to run trains sets.

PCRR/Dave

 

Dave,  Because it is there:-)  Sorry you can't understand my curiosity.  G

GGG I agree on the curiosity and I would also like to say that I think there's an awful lot of us that are using cw80s with no problems at all.

Ron

GGG & RailfanRon,

   Please do not get me wrong, I also need to be tinkering with something or engineering some kind of project, I do understand the curiosity factor in these transformers, it hooked me for a while also.  What I was really talking about was

going out and purchasing a CW-40 or 80 without it coming in a starter set.  Ron

you are right there are lots of these little transfomers being used without problems.  Unfortunately none of them were mine. 

PCRR/Dave

 

 

I learn so much from this forum that I was hoping that you smart guys would tackle this problem. I would love to hear your diagnostic approaches.

Denny

The fan circuit is so simple that it should be easy to diagnose, but then again....

 

Do you read a DC voltage across the fan's black and red leads?  The fan is running on halfwave voltage that is below the rated voltage of 12V for the fan, and this can cause starting  problems.

 

The circuit is:   hot from transformer - fuse - fan - diode - return to transformer.

 

The full voltage indication at the outputs with no load is due to the snubber capacitors across the Triacs leaking enough current to drive your high-impedance meter.  Any kind of load pulls this leakage down to near zero volts.

 

The output devices are single Triacs on each channel.  FETs take a pair on each channel to control AC.

 

My detailed analysis of the CW-80 at www.trainfacts.com may help you.

Thanks Very Much Dale, that's great info about the CW-80 ! This link goes directly to the page:

 

http://www.trainfacts.com/trainfacts/?p=34

Cool, a schematic of the CW-80, that might be handy.

Dale Manquen,

    Great information on the CW-80, your analysis is right on the money, from now on I will use your analysis when talking about the CW-80, and refer people to your sight for education.

PCRR/Dave