New 4-6-0 Camelback audio problem.

The universal remote should only work with Bluetooth on. Have you tried the LC app or just controlling the locomotive conventionally

Do you get background sounds just no user activated sounds?

Still the same.  No activated sounds via app or universal remote, throttle works fine. 

It sounds broken.  While I don't normally run with BT, I tried the Universal Remote with my new Camelback, works fine with it.

@BamaRider posted:

Still the same.  No activated sounds via app or universal remote, throttle works fine. 

So you have background sounds?

check the IR connection between the locomotive and tender of that is out of alignment you won’t get anything. A good indication of weather or not it’s reviving data is when you hear chuffing sounds

while I hope to help a simple fix if this gets too in depth be prepared to contact your dealer or Lionel as they should make anything incorrect right

Another expensive locomotive, brand new in box,   bought at retail, that doesn't work.

Geez, . . .I thought I was the only one.  :-(

This is the craziest hobby ever!

Mannyrock

@BamaRider posted:

My layout is a modest 4X8 powered by the standard power pack found in a train set.

Could this be happening because this is a Legacy model and the layout is powered with a starter set power pack?

Brad

@B rad posted:

Could this be happening because this is a Legacy model and the layout is powered with a starter set power pack?

Brad

Ding ding ding.

Can’t believe I skimmed over that, then again a small power pack in a starter set to me is more like a CW-80 or the 40W version

LEGACY locomotives should be powered with AC power ONLY!

Exactly what powerpack are we talking about?

The power pak that comes in the starter set.  I'm new at this and don't know anything, the locomotive runs fine but no sounds, but when the loco is disconnected from the tender I have idle sounds, but no activated sounds from the app or universal.  The manual gives instructions how to make the horn work (press the button) but nothing happens. 

Perhaps I am doing something wrong?  I'd rather not send it back to Lionel, but I paid a bunch of money for it, so will if I have to. 

Just to be clear: a Power Pak puts out DC power to the track.  A transformer puts out AC.  Which do you have?  What is the output wattage (VA) rating?  Hopefully you won't tell us you're using a little DC wall-wart plugged directly into the track...

Jon

@BamaRider posted:

The power pak that comes in the starter set.

Pictures?  Label information?

@KOOLjock1 posted:

Hopefully you won't tell us you're using a little DC wall-wart plugged directly into the track...

Jon

That's exactly what it sounds like. Lionchief starter sets use a DC power supply which will work with any LC, LC+ or LC+ 2.0 but not Legacy.

Legacy locomotives run on AC power only. I would not try to run your Legacy model in that environment until your issue is resolved to prevent damage to your locomotive.

The folks on this forum will be great help for you to get what you need. I run DCS with a Z1000 transformer with a TIU and Wifi unit for bluetooth and phone app use for both Lionel and MTH trains.

You need a transformer that will supply the AC power you need but there are more experienced folks here that may have better advice.

Brad

First we need to know what transformer is in use now.

Please help I don't know anything about Legacy trains.   I bought this train thinking I had everything to make it work.  I have a modest layout this is my first train that is above basic. 

If I bought a CW 80 transformer and a CAB1 remote, would I have everything to make it work?

Will my train work if I have CW 80 transformer with the basic Universal remote?

As we've mentioned above, a Legacy engine needs AC power to the track.  Starter sets are designed to run on either AC or DC, and come with much cheaper DC power supplies.  You will need SOME kind of AC transformer.  A CW-80, BW-80, GW-180, or almost any Post War AC output transformer will do.

If you wish to run in Command Mode, you'll need a CAB-1/Command Base set.  If you wish to run it in full Legacy mode, you'll need either the CAB-1L/1LCommand Base, or the #990 Legacy Base/CAB-2.

Jon

I’ll 2nd Jon’s comment

In this case if you like the universal remote, it’ll work just fine. But you do NEED a standard AC Transformer. Just about anything will work, keep in mind if you use a post war transformer you need to add the circuit protection and there’s a number of other threads explaining that.
If your looking at new transformers a CW-80 will definitely do it, if you think you may expand one day might look into a GW-180. And really if you don’t have any standard conventional locomotives there’s no need for the transformer handle and you could just use a 180W PowerHouse, to say the least there’s a number of different ways to skin this cat.

Get your new Legacy locomotive running correctly then you can decide if your going more into TMCC/LEGACY. I’d avoid a original Cab-1 as there’s better options now. If you want to get your toes wet I’d recommend getting a Cab-1L set.

The new Legacy and LionChief Plus 2.0 engine boards can operate on both AC and DC, but the audio board (RSL4) in the tender cannot. It only operates on AC. That's why you have engine control but no sound control.

Thanks Dave!  Glad you jumped in here!

Jon

@Dave Olson posted:

The new Legacy and LionChief Plus 2.0 engine boards can operate on both AC and DC, but the audio board (RSL4) in the tender cannot. It only operates on AC. That's why you have engine control but no sound control.

I'm curious in command why the requirement for AC?  The first thing in the line of power is a bridge rectifier, it would seem that it would work with AC or DC for command.  I can see why you need AC for conventional.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm curious in command why the requirement for AC?  The first thing in the line of power is a bridge rectifier, it would seem that it would work with AC or DC for command.  I can see why you need AC for conventional.

We've made a running change to the RSL4 that will make it function on DC. The first engine that will have it is the 2-10-10-2 and then the engines in 2021C2. It wasn't part of our original goal to make it work on DC, so it's nice we were able to get it there.

Bear in mind that on DC power, only Bluetooth is functional. There's no Legacy control or conventional control.

@Dave Olson posted:

We've made a running change to the RSL4 that will make it function on DC. The first engine that will have it is the 2-10-10-2 and then the engines in 2021C2. It wasn't part of our original goal to make it work on DC, so it's nice we were able to get it there.

Bear in mind that on DC power, only Bluetooth is functional. There's no Legacy control or conventional control.

Dave, that's what confuses me.  Obviously, you folks know the design a lot better than the unwashed masses out here.   I would think that under Legacy control, the only thing you need is power and serial data.  I don't quite understand why that can't be AC or DC.  I don't doubt you have a reason it won't work, just curious as to what it is.

I'm also missing the battery connection on the RSL4 board, all my new steamers with the RSL4 boards have audio dropouts when crossing my Ross double-slip switches as well as a couple of the curved switches.  I managed to fix that problem, but I suspect my fix isn't for everyone as it involves soldering to the RSL4 board.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Dave, that's what confuses me.  Obviously, you folks know the design a lot better than the unwashed masses out here.   I would think that under Legacy control, the only thing you need is power and serial data.  I don't quite understand why that can't be AC or DC.  I don't doubt you have a reason it won't work, just curious as to what it is.

Correct me if I’m wrong but that would be null and void anyway running in DC and the radio board wouldn’t ever see the Legacy 455khz signal.

@zhubl posted:

Correct me if I’m wrong but that would be null and void anyway running in DC and the radio board wouldn’t ever see the Legacy 455khz signal.

Not a problem.  The TMCC signal actually doesn't care what it's sharing the outside track with, AC or DC.  Remember, DCS with their 3.27mhz base frequency runs fine on AC or DC, and they actually use the track as a transmission line, TMCC/Legacy just uses the outside rail as a common for the airborne signal.

Besides, the sound board doesn't see the TMCC signal at all, it just uses serial data.  Getting the Legacy to run on DC would do the trick, job done as far as I can see.

Makes sense I don’t know why I was thinking that but oh well

@Mannyrock posted:

Another expensive locomotive, brand new in box,   bought at retail, that doesn't work.

Geez, . . .I thought I was the only one.  :-(

This is the craziest hobby ever!

Mannyrock

Apparently it’s not broken.

@Dave Olson posted:

The new Legacy and LionChief Plus 2.0 engine boards can operate on both AC and DC, but the audio board (RSL4) in the tender cannot. It only operates on AC. That's why you have engine control but no sound control.

This is very useful information.  I had thought that DC power in 3-rail had gone the way of the dodo.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm also missing the battery connection on the RSL4 board, all my new steamers with the RSL4 boards have audio dropouts when crossing my Ross double-slip switches as well as a couple of the curved switches.  I managed to fix that problem, but I suspect my fix isn't for everyone as it involves soldering to the RSL4 board.

If that's the only thing cutting out over the double-slip, consider yourself lucky.  I have seen some impressive amounts of sparks come off my club's double-slip!

I don't routinely have issues with the DSS switches, a couple of things like the RMT BEEP have trouble transitioning them, even with the DZ-1008 relay switching the dead rails.  Depending on the tender roller spacing, a number of the Legacy locomotives have issues.  I know the Vision Line Niagara with it's closely spaced rollers dropped out every time.  That one accepted my YLB, so it was easy to fix.  The new 10-wheelers and the new Camelback with the later RSL4 boards have no battery provisions.  I worked out a fix for mine, but it involves pulling the RSL4 board and connecting an aux cap, something many folks probably won't be all that eager to attempt.

New Legacy Steam Locomotive Sound Issue and Fix

Thank y'all for helping me understand how things work.  Before I spend the money let me ask this.

If I have a CW 80 transformer, can I work my legacy loco with the universal remote?  Or do I have to use the transformer?

I guess the simple question does the CW 80 render the universal remote to dust bin?  Personaly I like the remote.  Lionel doesn't mention this in any of the details posted that I can find.

The lionel rep who advised the reason I have no audio was the tender needed AC power was most helpful, I didn't know that.  I suggest they put that in the manual because I thought something was wrong with the unit itself and was about to send it back.  All I knew was everything else was working fine on the track.

The CW80 should be fine. Just put it to 18 volts and go. The universal remote with work fine.  The CW will supply a constant 18volts AC (provided you set the output) and then the top universal remote will control the engine directly.

Thank you!

I am back again with this because I don't know anything. 

After a 1 month back order I have a new CW 80 transformer.  I also have the Lionel Fast Track terminal section for connection to my modest 4x8 layout.

I have the everything installed, and the track has power.  Sounds are working fine.  The CW powers my lionchiefs locos fine, but my new camelback legacy won't budge.  It does everything but move when I push the throttle, it just sits there making smoke and chugging. 

It appears to be stuck in neutral.  All the lights work.  I know the track is good by the fact the lionchiefs go around with no problem, so I dunno.

The manual says the direction button alters the direction, when pressed it will blink off and turn back on, but the the throttle is useless.

Prior to the CW 80 I could at least make the train go around with the universal remote powered by the simple power pack that comes in a new set, buy y'all told me that is not good.  Now I have the opposite problem, sounds but no motion.  I thought I would enjoy a real legacy train, I waited a year for it to deliver.  I give up, I can't get it to work even after spending this money. 

This could be operator problem maybe not pushing the buttons in the correct order or something.  The fact this loco was connected to the bluetooth prior mean something?

If it's actually making chuffing sounds and/or chuffing smoke, that indicates a driveline issue.  The chuff is generated by the flywheel encoder, and you don't get that unless the motor is turning.  If the motor is turning and the locomotive isn't moving, that's an internal mechanical issue.

I dunno John the unit will operate via Bluetooth and the App with the starter set power pak, but no sounds.

Unplug the power pak and power the track with the CW-80 and I have sounds but no motion.

Have you tried operating via Bluetooth (IE: the LC app or Universal remote) with the CW-80?

@BamaRider posted:

I dunno John the unit will operate via Bluetooth and the App with the starter set power pak, but no sounds.

Unplug the power pak and power the track with the CW-80 and I have sounds but no motion.

OK, that kinda' lets out the mechanical issue.   That's really odd, I think I'd have to see that one.  I have one of the new Camelbacks, but it runs fine in Legacy and BT mode.  I don't typically use BT as it has too short a range and I lose connection occasionally on the layout.

Just fired up my Reading Camelback, and it runs fine in conventional mode.  I am using the MTH TIU on a variable channel, I power down the Legacy Command base and then control the track voltage with the DCS remote, it ran just fine in conventional mode.

@BamaRider  Being a newbie to Legacy myself, I’d like to understand exactly what you’re doing.   My first Legacy engine was a SW8 switcher I recently purchased.   It took some experimenting for me to get it to work.  I had a few disheartening moments but finally got it working  

Make sure you have the right app on your phone.  The Lionel Lionchief app for Apple looks like this…

Double check that Bluetooth on your phone is ON.

Check that the switches on the engine are set correctly.  Program switch should be set to RUN.   Make sure the Bluetooth switch is ON.  If they already look to be set correctly, flick them back-and-forth to make sure that they are completely engaged.

Track power OFF.

Place the engine on the track.

Crank the transformer up to 18 volts.

If the engine doesn’t connect to the app automatically, tap the 1234 engine number and it should find the engine.   Tap on the engine.  And tap the link button.

It should be connected and working. I had to run through this a couple of times. It didn’t work for me on the first try.   I also have a CAB1 that took some poking and prodding.   But once I got the engine up and running, I don’t think I could go back to conventional control.

good luck. Hopefully the issue is a small overlooked step.