New AF Track and Switches?

FasTrack switches have yet to materialize.

I don't have any of the 20" radius curves, but here's some pictures of a couple of the 10" straight sections.

Rusty

Hey Rusty,

I notice on the bottom of my sample straight piece that is says – S-10” Full Curve.  I’m wondering why they are calling it a ‘Full Curve’?

The curve track states S-40” Full Curve.  I’ve been trying to measure the centerline radius and I’ve come up with a value of about 19.5”.   It might be more accurate to call it 19.6366”… not sure though.  Guess we won't know until the switches come out.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

A straight is nothing but a curve with an infinite radius.

I think Lionel measures FasTrack curves by the outside rail, going back to the 3-rail O gauge tradition with listing curves by diameter. 

Not sure, don't have any S FasTrack curves.  This here "radius" thing is a little new to Lionel.

Rusty

Rusty, I have heard rumors that the rail height on the new track is kinda low & that flanges on some vintage Gilbert products actually hit the "tie" sections of the plastic base.  Any experience with this? 

"O" FasTrack is all measured as center rail "diameter".  O-36 is 18" radius, eg.  Even "O-31" FasTrack is 15.5" radius to the center rail, a departure from traditional "O" measurements.

I expect "S" to also be measured from the center, as is the practice in all scales as well as FasTrack.

The rail height on S FasTrack is the same height as the former SHS S-Trax and I've had no trouble with Gilbert Flyer on the SHS track.  If was some bumping, I haven't really noticed it. There should be no problems with Gilbert Flyer on S FastTrack.

Part of the issue may be that not all Gilbert wheelsets are in gauge.  It's one of the reasons SHS redesigned their turnouts.

Rusty

To conform to the appearance of my other types of track, I just replaced my small S oval with Fastrack. Looks nice but if being put together and taken apart often, it does not appear to be nearly as robust as the O & Std tracks. My LHS did not have any of the short sections (are they available?) so I had to make my own. Trying to snap them together, some were so tight the plastic started to crack. Had to hold them upside down and squeeze at the locking points to keep from damaging any of the pieces.

Looks good

Steve

The locking connectors built into the roadbed are the weak point of S FasTrack.  I boogered up one of the sockets when I was checking my straights out.

It seems the trick is not to hold the track near the ends when joining them.  There's a natural tendency to squeeze on the roadbed when joining the sections.  This makes it harder to plug the sections together.

Hold the track about 2 inches away from the ends so as to lessen the chance of distorting the sockets.

Rusty

Rusty, I have heard rumors that the rail height on the new track is kinda low & that flanges on some vintage Gilbert products actually hit the "tie" sections of the plastic base.  Any experience with this? 

The rail height on S FasTrack is the same height as the former SHS S-Trax and I've had no trouble with Gilbert Flyer on the SHS track.  If was some bumping, I haven't really noticed it. There should be no problems with Gilbert Flyer on S FastTrack.

Absolutely true.  The rail height is .138”, it is identical to the SHS rail profile.  There will be no problem running ACG Flyer on this system.

Now what the radius really is remains to be seen.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

From underneath it looks like Kato Unitrack...

Mark in Oregon

I have heard that some plastic postwar wheels are being torn up by the sharp inner/upper edge of the rails of the new fastrack.

It will be interesting to see how well the rolling stock holds up with heavy use.

Jerry

Hmm,that's interesting;I'll have to try that.

Mark in Oregon

Thanks for the pic.  I wish it had tubular rail...or either Lionel kept the K-Line tubular S track for an option. 

BTW, on the topic of gauging of Gilbert wheel sets, I've heard (and used with great results) that a dime coin works as a gauge for the back spacing of wheels. 

 

Jerry

Hey Jerry,  I find a piece of 3/4" plywood easier to work with, but a dime will do in a pinch.  For all the people who like their numbers, like me, you are really shooting for 23/32" with the plywood.

The new layout has SHS flextrack exclusively, so all this talk of "radius" and "diameter" is moot to me.

Me too, actually, though I have a lot of AM flex mixed in also.  However I guess I like my calculator too much and I like to try to figure out what they were really going for.  I also don't lilke all the dis-information put out by the manufacturers...  If someone would like to draw a centerline before laying track, I think having the radius  dimension acturate would be handy. 

But that's just me, your railroad may differ...

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Some grist for the mill.

I was rooting around in the basement and unearthed a box of SHS 19" radius curve track.  I set up a semi-circle and unleashed my trusty Lufkin tape measure. 

If we make the assumption that Lionel's FasTrack geometry is designed to be compatible with S-Trax geometry, the numbers should come roughly out the same.  Equivalent calculated radius in red.  (Used all my fingers and toes, too...)

Outer ballast to outer ballast: 40 1/8" 20 1/16"r

Outer rail to outer rail: 38 1/2" 19 1/4" r

Center to center: 37 1/2" 18 3/4" r

Inner rail to inner rail:  36 3/4" 18 3/8"r

Inner ballast to inner ballast: 35 3/8" 17 7/8"r

Now, when SHS first came out with S-Trax, it was advertised as a 19" radius curve and that's what it says on my track's box.  That number seems to fall somewhere between the track centerline and outside rail, based on my pathetic measurements. 

Somewhere around 2003-2004-ish, SHS began to catalog the curve as 20" radius.  That's also what MTH is calling it.

So apparently, SHS didn't get it quite right, either.

The SHS 19"/20" radius curve was supposed to be geometrically compatible with Gilbert Flyer track.  Don't know, don't have any to check against.  It seems ol' A.C. dodged the whole issue of radius by simply listing the 702 curved track as "10" long."  However, a circle of track was listed as needing 40"x40" of space.

This is probably how over the years, Gilbert track (rightly or wrongly) morphed into 20" radius.  The track never changed, just the perception of it.   So, if you want to sell track to the Flyer fan, the curve gets listed as 20" radius even though it's true radius is somewhat less.

Rusty

As Rusty has mentioned, Gilbert highlighted that a circle of track needed a space of 40" wide at minimum and this was the only measurement that any prospective Father needed to know at the time in the 40's/50's in order to fix the track to a board, if required, and that this measurement is in fact the measurement of outside tie to outside tie.

I doubt many fathers would be knowledgable about actual radii/centre to centre measurements at the time and Gilbert just made life simple.

It is only later in life that enthusiasts decided to interpret an actual criteria and reverse engineer it to a much simplified measurement that seems to have caused confusion.

At the end of the day we have what we have and not much is going to change to some extent unless the likes of Lionel and MTH start to offer a much expanded geometric rail system that will let us produce, design and build layouts that we only dreamed of.

Hi Rusty,

Thank you for your efforts.  I'm wondering how much play is in the circle you created.  I haven't had the S-Trax to measure.  Would it be possible for you to creat an 'S'curve with the S-Trax and measure the centers for the two resulting tangents?

So apparently, SHS didn't get it quite right, either.

Sadly true.  Don T stated on the S-trains Yahoo group the SHS radius was 18.55".  And I believe this has caused some tracking problems with the 6 wheeled truck heavyweights SHS/AM offered.

I though this drawing might be of some interest.  The equations show the relation between 30° pieces of curve track and the resultant tangent tracks.

It is only later in life that enthusiasts decided to interpret an actual criteria and reverse engineer it to a much simplified measurement that seems to have caused confusion.

Well, I admit I am one who likes to 'reverse engineer' and to apply useable numbers to the product.  The only confusion I see is the manufacturers using dis-information to sell their products and I don't think that is right.  But as they say... buyer beware.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Tom,

If what you're asking for is this (red line):

I measured it at 53 1/2."

While there is some slop inherent in any snap-track type of system, S-Trax is fairly tight.  I tried to make sure everything was tight and square when I did the measurements, but any error would have been less than 1/8."

Rusty

Hi Rusty,

I should have been more descriptive.  What I should have said was to use two pieces of curve track to make the ‘S’.  Like a crossover using two switches.  That’s where the two equations I posted work.

R = .25oc(sin15° )²

oc = 4R(sin15° )²

where oc is the distance between the two tangent tracks

and sin15° is for 30° pieces of curve track

I only have one curve and one straight of the Lionel FasTrack, but I think I might be able to get them arranged close enough for a measurement.

One question:  What kind of files do you post?  I tried to post a .pdf, but I didn’t think it worked so I converted it to a .jpg.  However once I saw it posted the details are too small to be useable.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Tom,

You've lost me.  I haven't had to use any higher math in over 20 years.

But, for two sections of an S-Trax s-curve the measurement comes to 19 5/8".  Parallel distance is 4 1/8".

For posting attachments I use either .jpg or .png, depending on the source image.

Rusty

Rusty,

4.125"???  I would have expected it to be more like 4 31/32".

I just measured the FasTracks.  I came up with 5 1/32" for the spacing between parallel track centerlines.  That means the radius is about 18.777"  Call it 18 3/4", which seems a bit tight compared to the original Flyer radius of 19 1/8".  18 3/4" to the center gives us 20" to the outside edge of the plastic roadbed.  Hardly what I would advertise as a 20" radius.

Interesting...

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Ooops.  5 1/16".  The tape measure slipped...

Rusty

You guys are going off on a tangent!  Plus don't drink and derive.

The first thing I thought of when I read about Lionel's new "S" turnouts was will they have a two train feature to lock out electricity like the Gilbert turnouts. I always liked that feature and I wonder if Lionel has considered that. 

Well, unless someone from Lionel speaks up, we won't know the answer to your question until the FasTrack turnouts show up.

If it's any consolation, the former SHS S-trax turnouts have that feature (assuming MTH doesn't change the design) and given the similarities between FasTrack and S-Trax, the odds are there will be the feature to isolate the diverging routes.

Rusty