Amen!
After not hearing anything further from MTH on a solution, I purchased a new Android Tablet and the Android Version of the DCS App and I am back to full functionality and will be enjoying my trains with family and friends this week. I am frustrated that I had to unexpectedly spend the time and money due to no fault of my own. I am dissappointed and angry that MTH seemed to project the attitue of - yes, it's our mistake and sorry there is nothing we can do until we don't know when...you are on your own!
For what I (and we) have spent over the years, we deserved better!
I have purchased my last MTH product!
@Rafi posted:I've hesitated to offer comment in the debate of physical handheld vs smartphone app, because I don't want to write a dissertation that no one will read. I do, however, want to make a few salient points as someone who:
What you say is certainly true, but clearly the current track record of both companies with their command phone apps not having updates for years indicates that it's not a top priority in their thinking.
I agree that you can more easily adapt to major interface changes using a smart device, but I disagree that it automatically "wins out". The tactile feel of a real remote cannot be underestimated. I regularly run my trains with one hand by tactile feel while the other hand is operating switches, turntables, etc. I have yet to see a smart app that I can easily do all those operations with a single hand and/or without looking at the device.
@Rafi posted:Apps that are coded well, regularly updated, have a good foundation of beta testers, and a dedicated development team will be as reliable as any handheld remote. OS updates by Apple or Google should never, ever cause concern to a consumer or a developer if an app is maintained in this manner. This is where a manufacturer who is moving from a dedicated handheld to a smart app has to make a conscious, deliberate change in how they approach this aspect of the business, because while apps are more dynamic and nimble and shorter on development cycle than a remote, they must be maintained and re-evaluated on a much more frequent cadence than the components of a remote must be re-evaluated. Apps that go years without updates and do not undergo thorough testing before those updates hit the street are precarious in nature, at best. And that's where everything can come crashing down, quite needlessly, for any given number of reasons.Rafi
Unfortunately, our model train apps all seem to fall into the bold print statement of your reply, hence my reluctance to trust the manufacturers to do the right thing! 
Even if they were doing all those great things you mention, there are still major advantages to the dedicated remote with real tactile feel.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I agree that you can more easily adapt to major interface changes using a smart device, but I disagree that it automatically "wins out". The tactile feel of a real remote cannot be underestimated. I regularly run my trains with one hand by tactile feel while the other hand is operating switches, turntables, etc. I have yet to see a smart app that I can easily do all those operations with a single hand and/or without looking at the device.
Unfortunately, our model train apps all seem to fall into the bold print statement of your reply, hence my reluctance to trust the manufacturers to do the right thing!
Even if they were doing all those great things you mention, there are still major advantages to the dedicated remote with real tactile feel.
Hi John,
I completely agree that the handheld remotes offer a reliable and tactile experience that the phone apps do not currently provide. The reliability issues can be corrected, and I hope Lionel and MTH are taking the necessary steps to make sure that happens. Lionel, for their part, is in search of a dedicated, full-time Lionel-employed developer who is not a part time contractor; they may have already filled that role, even--I'm not sure. That's a great step.
When it comes to the tactile piece, there are some key features that these apps could integrate that I sincerely hope happen very soon. The first is Haptic, or Tactile feedback. Lionel is building this feature into their forthcoming Cab3 app, in fact. This is a feature that will cause the phone to vibrate with feedback. It could provide a quick vibration when you accelerate a train. Or it could vibrate when you apply the train brake. The feedback can also vary in intensity or speed of vibration. I don't know how Lionel intends to implement the feature, or if they intend to let the user decide what types of haptic feedback trigger for which actions.
More critically, however, I sincerely hope these developers start to leverage the actual physical buttons on these devices rather than just the screen for core pieces of functionality. For example, wouldn't it be nice to hold the phone in your hand, and without looking at it, push the Volume Up or Volume Down buttons to increase or decrease throttle speeds incrementally, and have haptic feedback as a confirmation? No screen needed.
Or, if you're on an iPhone 15 Pro, what if you could push the Action Button (above the volume buttons) to trigger a feature of your choosing, like blowing the whistle? None of that would ever require looking at the device, and could be accomplished completely with tactile feel.
Looking ahead even more, what if you used your Apple Watch to control the trains? What if the watch crown (aka dial) was the red Lionel wheel that controls the throttle? What if the action button on a Watch Ultra could be assigned a feature like the whistle? What if you could blow the whistle just by touching your index finger to your thumb? Or a double-touch of those same fingers rings the bell? What if you could make a fist and trigger a PFA sequence? This is all very do-able.
Are these sorts of features for everyone? Of course not. But they would go a long way to answering some of the concerns we have today with these apps, especially when we know that the apps are going to be our future. My fear, which I think everyone pretty much shares, is that the manufacturers lack the vision, the will, or the understanding of how to implement these sorts of features in an app landscape they don't fully understand. That's my fear--hopefully it's not the case.
Rafi
@Rafi posted:My fear, which I think everyone pretty much shares, is that the manufacturers lack the vision, the will, or the understanding of how to implement these sorts of features in an app landscape they don't fully understand. That's my fear--hopefully it's not the case.Rafi
My fear is even if they finally realize the situation, I may no longer be around to see the resolution. 
Can't MTH just take the 5 year old origonal stable working ios app ver.3.2.1 and rename it 3.2.3 and upload it to the app store. it would overwrite the faulty Ver 3.2.2
then we could download it like a new app, install it and be back to square one ?
@Jim Teeple posted:Can't MTH just take the 5 year old origonal stable working ios app ver.3.2.1 and rename it 3.2.3 and upload it to the app store. it would overwrite the faulty Ver 3.2.2
then we could download it like a new app, install it and be back to square one ?
I'm thinking the App stores won't post as new, any app that fails to meet its current security requirements.
I just got an email rom MTH stating that an upgraded app is now available for both Android and IOS.
"M.T.H. Releases Updated iOS DCS App, Android Version Coming Soon"
@RJT posted:I just got an email rom MTH stating that an upgraded app is now available for both Android and IOS.
"M.T.H. Releases Updated iOS DCS App, Android Version Coming Soon"
That's already being discussed here: https://ogrforum.com/...c/182184739490976079
Long Story Short: updated fixed apple version coming in early January. All new versions coming when the WTIU comes out.
I get irritated every time I hear that electronic parts are no longer made for the handheld remotes that MTH and Lionel are using. Come on now. Think about how many years we have been using handheld remotes on televisions and such. I'm pretty sure they've had to have update the designs to currently available parts.
@romiller49 posted:I get irritated every time I hear that electronic parts are no longer made for the handheld remotes that MTH and Lionel are using. Come on now. Think about how many years we have been using handheld remotes on televisions and such. I'm pretty sure they've had to have update the designs to currently available parts.
How many of those TV remotes have displays and two-way communication? I have one of the last Sanyo tube-style TV ever made (circa 2007?), and there are no parts available for the TV or the remote.
Well my frustration with the MTH DCS apps keeps growing.... Becuase of the DCS ios 3.2.2 update that wouldn't do lashups or permit the addtion of TMC/Legacy Locos, I went out and purchased a new Lenovo M9 Android Tablet. While I was able to now run all my trains including TMC/Legacy and Lashups, I kept having a problem where the DCS Android App appeared to lock-up intermitently. The only way out of this condition was to force close the DCS app and restart it until it would do it again. Finally I noticed how to recreate the issue. If I should pull down on the whistle too far or miss it altogther and do a pull down in the grey background/field area, the screen would "stretch a bit" but not bounce back or restore itself. While in this "stretched state" none of the functions/buttons would work except one - the Engine Soft Key Page button. If I quickly switch to to the Soft Key Page and then back to the Engine Control Screen, the screen is back to normal and all buttons and functions appear to work properly at least until the next time I inadvertantly swipe down in the background field area. Is this a known bug? Has anyone else seen this? All the other Android Apps runing on this tablet will stretch a bit when if I swipe down in a non functional area but they all will restore themselves and work perfectly. I opened a request for DCS Support with MTH yesterday morning but have not yet heard back from them.
@Porschev posted:Well my frustration with the MTH DCS apps keeps growing.... Becuase of the DCS ios 3.2.2 update that wouldn't do lashups or permit the addtion of TMC/Legacy Locos, I went out and purchased a new Lenovo M9 Android Tablet. While I was able to now run all my trains including TMC/Legacy and Lashups, I kept having a problem where the DCS Android App appeared to lock-up intermitently. The only way out of this condition was to force close the DCS app and restart it until it would do it again. Finally I noticed how to recreate the issue. If I should pull down on the whistle too far or miss it altogther and do a pull down in the grey background/field area, the screen would "stretch a bit" but not bounce back or restore itself. While in this "stretched state" none of the functions/buttons would work except one - the Engine Soft Key Page button. If I quickly switch to to the Soft Key Page and then back to the Engine Control Screen, the screen is back to normal and all buttons and functions appear to work properly at least until the next time I inadvertantly swipe down in the background field area. Is this a known bug? Has anyone else seen this? All the other Android Apps runing on this tablet will stretch a bit when if I swipe down in a non functional area but they all will restore themselves and work perfectly. I opened a request for DCS Support with MTH yesterday morning but have not yet heard back from them.
It was noted in the iOS 3.2.2 version of the app that the screen swiping up & down to access the function subscreen was removed and you had to now tap on the up & down arrows at the top or bottom of the screen. Based on this, MTH must have identified this issue previously and will most likely remove it from the Android app as well when it is updated.
I haven't seen this problem on my array of Android devices but trying to troubleshoot and solve the problem is probably going to be moot once the new version is released.
Interesting debate. I am currently using a DCS remote to command control my MTH DCS engines and my Lionel engines via TMCC. The thumbwheel on my 2004 remote broke just after the WIU & App was introduced (2011?). I then became a DCS App & smartphone proponent. Around 2017 I successfully used a gaming controller connected to my iPhone to physically control some functions (like speed and horn) of the app. But a iOS upgrade lost support for the controller. My WIU usb jack broke in 2022. I was hoping to get WTIU but it hasn't shipped. I was lucky enough to find a used remote and tiu for around $300. I also bought a spare thumbwheel assembly for when my current remote fails. In 2022 I added a TrainMaster TMCC component and started buying TMCC engines.
So for the last 2 decades I've split my time controlling via the DCS remote and app. Between the two I admit I prefer the remote. The tactile, no look aspect of the remote wins out over the feature flexibility of the app. That said if key functions like speed, horn could be mapped to the phone buttons that would enhance app use.
The question I haven't heard addressed (pun intended) is anyone using DCC to command control their MTH PS3 engines? One of the smartest things I thought MTH did to future proof their engines was to make PS3 compatible with DCC. There are a variety of DCC remote manufacturers supporting the HO market. The smartest thing Lionel did was make their Legacy engines Bluetooth compatible. As such I do not need a Legacy remote to control my 1 Legacy engine (I control it via TMCC) I also like the voice control aspects of the Lionel remote since I feel like a dispatcher talking to the engineer. TV's, streaming boxes, and AVR's still ship with remotes. Voice command is a novelty and not always positive. Pushing the right physical button at the right time can prevent accidents. Ask any Tesla owner.
Has there been any news/movement on MTH fixing the update problems that had occurred? Did I miss it somewhere or are we all still waiting?
no news yet. I haven't seen an annoucement and the App Store still shows Version 3.2.2 from 3 weeks ago. :-(
Gentlemen, I just received and preliminarily tested the iOS app for the lash-up bug. It appears to be working fine although, we haven't completed testing. We are working on the import/export issue now.
I believe someone said they had an issue with adding/operating TMCC/Legacy engines? Can anyone confirm that? Are there any other bugs that any of you have encountered over the holidays?
Our plan is to fix the import/export issue (Apple change, wasn't us) and any other confirmed bugs, test, and re-release the iOS app as soon as possible. Please let us know if there are other new bugs. This is not the forum for requesting new features. First things first, let's get the iOS app back out and working properly with the latest iOS version and hardware. Next is Android.
Thereafter, the updates for the WTIU will be implemented on both platforms. That new app will not be released until around the time the WTIU hardware ships. Right now, we have released the design into production. It will take about 4-5 months before the production units are in your hands but, we're on the down hill run.
I know many of you are concerned about DCS and our commitment to not only sustaining but, advancing the system. Let me assure you, we all, collectively, have far too much invested not to. There are good reasons for the waning attention and elongated development process. It has nothing to do with our commitment to the product or complications with the process. It is simply a matter of the transition we have undergone and getting our footing moving forward.
Over the past half decade, or so, I've heard a lot of opinions expressing preferences for both the dedicated DCS Remote and DCS app running on mobile devices. We are very proud of the UI developed for the dedicated remote and it's still a simple process to pick it up and run trains. Unfortunately, the communication technology in the original TIU and Remote is outdated and difficult to sustain. So, for all of you that prefer the dedicated remote, we are considering development of Wi-Fi DCS Remote. This would be an updated version of the existing remote that connects to your TIUs via Wi-Fi. There are many more ideas and plans for the continuation of DCS as the preeminent model train control system. Stay tuned.
I believe I've found a bug while using the WIU over ethernet, configured via DHCP, where the latest version of the iOS app on iOS 17.2.x loses its connection to the WIU within about 5 minutes.
Have you considered leveraging TestFlight with some folks on this forum to help test across multiple environments?
Rafi
@MTH RD posted:Gentlemen, I just received and preliminarily tested the iOS app for the lash-up bug. It appears to be working fine although, we haven't completed testing. We are working on the import/export issue now.
I believe someone said they had an issue with adding/operating TMCC/Legacy engines? Can anyone confirm that? Are there any other bugs that any of you have encountered over the holidays?
Our plan is to fix the import/export issue (Apple change, wasn't us) and any other confirmed bugs, test, and re-release the iOS app as soon as possible. Please let us know if there are other new bugs. This is not the forum for requesting new features. First things first, let's get the iOS app back out and working properly with the latest iOS version and hardware. Next is Android.
Thereafter, the updates for the WTIU will be implemented on both platforms. That new app will not be released until around the time the WTIU hardware ships. Right now, we have released the design into production. It will take about 4-5 months before the production units are in your hands but, we're on the down hill run.
I know many of you are concerned about DCS and our commitment to not only sustaining but, advancing the system. Let me assure you, we all, collectively, have far too much invested not to. There are good reasons for the waning attention and elongated development process. It has nothing to do with our commitment to the product or complications with the process. It is simply a matter of the transition we have undergone and getting our footing moving forward.
Over the past half decade, or so, I've heard a lot of opinions expressing preferences for both the dedicated DCS Remote and DCS app running on mobile devices. We are very proud of the UI developed for the dedicated remote and it's still a simple process to pick it up and run trains. Unfortunately, the communication technology in the original TIU and Remote is outdated and difficult to sustain. So, for all of you that prefer the dedicated remote, we are considering development of Wi-Fi DCS Remote. This would be an updated version of the existing remote that connects to your TIUs via Wi-Fi. There are many more ideas and plans for the continuation of DCS as the preeminent model train control system. Stay tuned.
These are the bugs ive seen:
on ipad:
-TMCC/Legacy - Diesel horn button doesnt work, steam whistle is fine
on Android:
-TMCC/Legacy - any change in the speed of a legacy lashup crashes the app.
Is there an email we can send bugs to? I sent it to the email listed on play store (sales @ mth-railking.com) with a list of bugs back in april of '23 but never got a response.
Thanks,
Dan
As far as a bug, I was unable to use the route option to set up switching moves. Thanks.
@MTH RD posted:Gentlemen, I just received and preliminarily tested the iOS app for the lash-up bug. It appears to be working fine although, we haven't completed testing. We are working on the import/export issue now.
I believe someone said they had an issue with adding/operating TMCC/Legacy engines? Can anyone confirm that? Are there any other bugs that any of you have encountered over the holidays?
Our plan is to fix the import/export issue (Apple change, wasn't us) and any other confirmed bugs, test, and re-release the iOS app as soon as possible. Please let us know if there are other new bugs. This is not the forum for requesting new features. First things first, let's get the iOS app back out and working properly with the latest iOS version and hardware. Next is Android.
Thereafter, the updates for the WTIU will be implemented on both platforms. That new app will not be released until around the time the WTIU hardware ships. Right now, we have released the design into production. It will take about 4-5 months before the production units are in your hands but, we're on the down hill run.
I know many of you are concerned about DCS and our commitment to not only sustaining but, advancing the system. Let me assure you, we all, collectively, have far too much invested not to. There are good reasons for the waning attention and elongated development process. It has nothing to do with our commitment to the product or complications with the process. It is simply a matter of the transition we have undergone and getting our footing moving forward.
Over the past half decade, or so, I've heard a lot of opinions expressing preferences for both the dedicated DCS Remote and DCS app running on mobile devices. We are very proud of the UI developed for the dedicated remote and it's still a simple process to pick it up and run trains. Unfortunately, the communication technology in the original TIU and Remote is outdated and difficult to sustain. So, for all of you that prefer the dedicated remote, we are considering development of Wi-Fi DCS Remote. This would be an updated version of the existing remote that connects to your TIUs via Wi-Fi. There are many more ideas and plans for the continuation of DCS as the preeminent model train control system. Stay tuned.
Great news thank you for the update!
@Ryan Mc posted:Yes, I had issues with adding TMCC and Legacy locomotives. The “Done” at the top was always greyed out and could not be selected even after entering all of the locomotive data. Some others encountered the same issue.
The exact issue here as well.
Thank you for keeping us updated.
https://ogrforum.com/...7#182889129242354877
Not sure about this one. I doubt this is app related but, we'll take a look.
In terms of beta testers, yes, we have them. We may consider expanding the test group with the upcoming update for the WTIU.
@DashingDanLIRR posted:These are the bugs ive seen:
on ipad:
-TMCC/Legacy - Diesel horn button doesnt work, steam whistle is fine
on Android:
-TMCC/Legacy - any change in the speed of a legacy lashup crashes the app.
Is there an email we can send bugs to? I sent it to the email listed on play store (sales @ mth-railking.com) with a list of bugs back in april of '23 but never got a response.
Thanks,
Dan
Thanks for the feedback. We'll look into horn operation in TMCC/Legacy once I can add engines again!
Also, I'll check into the legacy lash-up speed issue but, honestly, we may re-release the app without fixing this one if it'scomplex. It could be something to do with Legacy speed commands and how they work. It's bizarre.
Please continue to email any bugs to sales@mth-railking.com. I'll notify the folks that review and disperse those messages to make sure R&D gets anything related to DCS or the app.
@MTH RD posted:https://ogrforum.com/...7#182889129242354877
Not sure about this one. I doubt this is app related but, we'll take a look.
In terms of beta testers, yes, we have them. We may consider expanding the test group with the upcoming update for the WTIU.
This is a known issue with some versions of iOS, your device will automatically disconnect from any network that doesn't have internet access. They've updated this recently to display a prompt asking if you wish to stay connected to a network with no internet access, mainly to acomodate IoT devices.
@DashingDanLIRR posted:This is a known issue with some versions of iOS, your device will automatically disconnect from any network that doesn't have internet access. They've updated this recently to display a prompt asking if you wish to stay connected to a network with no internet access, mainly to acomodate IoT devices.
Understood--not related, though (this issue happens when the WIU is connected to a Wi-Fi network with internet access). I'm an engineer with Apple--this is an issue with the app, as best I can determine in my testing.
Rafi
@MTH RD posted:https://ogrforum.com/...7#182889129242354877
Not sure about this one. I doubt this is app related but, we'll take a look.
In terms of beta testers, yes, we have them. We may consider expanding the test group with the upcoming update for the WTIU.
Understood. As an engineer with Apple and connected with WWDR, please let me know if I can assist. Contact info in profile.
MTH RD
Can we expect the updated Apple app to reach us before the end of January?
Thank You for keeping us updated.
Has there been any word of the fix to the update? Or did I miss it?
All, FYI, It appears iOS version 3.2.3 was just posted 5 hours ago in the App Store. I am going to download now and test.
Good luck, let us know how it goes.
New app release still does not allow for the adding of TMCC Legacy engines.
I am pleased to report that in my testing the Lash-up feature appears to be working properly again.
@Soo Line, New TMCC add is working for me on 3.2.3. Check that you successfully updated to 3.2.3
@Porschev posted:@Soo Line, New TMCC add is working for me on 3.2.3. Check that you successfully updated to 3.2.3
Issue on my end. New MTH upgrade IOS app is working very nicely!
Thank You MTH RD
Hi all,
Glad to hear you guys received the update and things are working for you. The bugs were related and weird. It had to do with a process flow manager that Apple changed in some ways that obsoleted how we were handling it. So, basically, our app was out of date in a way we didn't identify.
There are a couple of minor things I saw when testing and also a couple of reported bugs such as the ethernet dropping, etc. We will be taking the approach of keeping the vast majority of you happy with the core features of the app working first and then, swing around and clean up any corner case issues.
As I've said, or tried to, we had our eye off the ball (ok, it was me) but, we're reengaged on DCS development and moving forward. You will be seeing the results of our efforts in the coming months. Next step is getting the Android version of the app fully updated to the current Android OS. Then, both apps need to be expanded to include new features found only in the WTIU.
And, as I may have mentioned, the WTIU is released and in the production process. Materials are being procured, tooling mods are being made, packaging is being designed, etc., etc. The product will be out as soon as we can get it done but, we're talking 3-4 months or so. Thereafter, we'll be cleaning up any bugs or whatever that are not uncommon to new products in parallel with beginning development of some new things. We think an updated DCS Remote that connects to the system via Wi-Fi would be welcomed by the community. Many of you prefer the dedicated remote over mobile devices. A Wi-Fi remote would be a nice addition for everyone.
We'll be watching for any app bugs and will squash them quickly. There is really no cost in doing releases so, rather than delay until we are certain everything is perfect, we would rather get what we believe is a great product out there and if we need to tweak some things, do that in stride.
Enjoy!!
@gunrunnerjohn posted:What you say is certainly true, but clearly the current track record of both companies with their command phone apps not having updates for years indicates that it's not a top priority in their thinking.
I agree that you can more easily adapt to major interface changes using a smart device, but I disagree that it automatically "wins out". The tactile feel of a real remote cannot be underestimated. I regularly run my trains with one hand by tactile feel while the other hand is operating switches, turntables, etc. I have yet to see a smart app that I can easily do all those operations with a single hand and/or without looking at the device.
Unfortunately, our model train apps all seem to fall into the bold print statement of your reply, hence my reluctance to trust the manufacturers to do the right thing!
Even if they were doing all those great things you mention, there are still major advantages to the dedicated remote with real tactile feel.
Amen !
I have 2 cab 2 remotes, when working on the layout I can put them anywhere and then pull up what I need to see whet the layout/engine is doing. Also the feel of the remote cannot be beat in my hand. Also if the phone rings now I have an issue but with a remote no worries at all and I do not have to even think about wifi/bluetooth issues.
Thanks for the communication @MTH RD . Like the popup option to update or wait. Great to hear about the WTIU progress. You can't communicate too much. 
