New feature and update ideas for LCS and Legacy

From your lips to God's ears!  I'd love to see LCS have better graphic capability and more track selections.  I'm currently building my "final" layout, and I want to use LCS, but I have stuff like Ross double-slip switches and curved switches, hard to represent using the LCS track library on the iPad.

As for operating locomotives, I still want to use the remote for that, I don't even like the full phone application that offers that stuff, it's just easier with a physical remote with physical controls.

I just thought of one more update for the Legacy system. Since MTH DCS will run Lionel TMCC/Legacy locos if an operator connects the two systems together, why can't Lionel figure out how to run MTH DCS locos in command mode with TMCC/Legacy? That would give operators a truly universal system. They would need to buy both systems, of course.

@Dylan the Train Man posted:

I just thought of one more update for the Legacy system. Since MTH DCS will run Lionel TMCC/Legacy locos if an operator connects the two systems together, why can't Lionel figure out how to run MTH DCS locos in command mode with TMCC/Legacy? That would give operators a truly universal system. They would need to buy both systems, of course.

I'm pretty sure they can but due to proprietary software infringements...they can't.  Lionel published their Legacy protocols so MTH was allowed to use them.  Unfortunately MTH hasn't done the same.

Dylan,

I agree with your suggestions.

Steve from Ross Switches had said that the LCS / iPad approach felt like the best way to address the operation of switches, blocks and accessories. Better and easier to modify than a conventional control panel and much quicker compared to using the dedicated remote for these tasks.

I agree with GRJ that the remote is hard to beat for loco control. I've been sketching a 3d printed "harness" that would join the CAB-2 and an iPad mini so you can hold them in one hand. Thus, the best of both worlds.

I wonder if Steve has figured out how to represent the double-slip switch on the LCS display, I may have to ask him.

@MartyE posted:

I'm pretty sure they can but due to proprietary software infringements...they can't.  Lionel published their Legacy protocols so MTH was allowed to use them.  Unfortunately MTH hasn't done the same.

MTH's patent on DCS expired in December 2020...

@Keith L posted:

MTH's patent on DCS expired in December 2020...

Are you sure?

Yeah, John is correct with his "Are you sure?"

You have to drill deep to see that the actual enforce patents for DCS were divided from a patent filed in 2000 (in which case 2020 would be correct)  However, the enforce DCS patents are officially documented as being filed in 2002, so we've got another year (2022)

I've looked at these before, and it's a somewhat tangled mess as to when they expire.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Are you sure?

I was thinking of this patent: US6457681B1 - Control, sound, and operating system for model trains - Google Patents

Only your hairdresser knows for sure...

There is no such thing as a "patent on DCS"; there are patents that claim certain features which are implemented by the DCS system.

Even if those patents are not expired, and valid (highly questionable for many of them), they would only stop you from making your own system. Broadly speaking, the patent does not prevent an authorized purchaser from doing anything he wants with the product, including writing software to control it.

SanDiegoMark has done great work documenting how to create your own hardware and software to transmit commands to the TIU, it would be pretty straightforward to create a Legacy - DCS "bridge,"  that would accept serial commands from the Legacy base and send out a DCS command to the TIU over radio.

You would just have to decide how to map Legacy features like speed steps, quailing whistles, or dialog to the features of DCS engines.  I've thought about it but haven't gotten around to trying it;  might be even more appealing when the DCS remote goes the way of the dodo.

@Professor Chaos posted:

There is no such thing as a "patent on DCS"; there are patents that claim certain features which are implemented by the DCS system.

Even if those patents are not expired, and valid (highly questionable for many of them), they would only stop you from making your own system. Broadly speaking, the patent does not prevent an authorized purchaser from doing anything he wants with the product, including writing software to control it.

SanDiegoMark has done great work documenting how to create your own hardware and software to transmit commands to the TIU, it would be pretty straightforward to create a Legacy - DCS "bridge,"  that would accept serial commands from the Legacy base and send out a DCS command to the TIU over radio.

You would just have to decide how to map Legacy features like speed steps, quailing whistles, or dialog to the features of DCS engines.  I've thought about it but haven't gotten around to trying it;  might be even more appealing when the DCS remote goes the way of the dodo.

Then perhaps Lionel sees no need to incorporate DCS into the Legacy world. It had always been said it was a patent issue but then again I'm not a patent attorney.  I did know San Diego Mark did some work on it and always wondered why he could do it.

@MartyE posted:

Then perhaps Lionel sees no need to incorporate DCS into the Legacy world.

When Legacy came out, I believe it was Jon Z who said they had the ability to make Legacy able to control DCS, but they didn't want to open themselves to potential legal issues. (Clearly, that would have been the last thing they needed at the time.)

@Keith L posted:

When Legacy came out, I believe it was Jon Z who said they had the ability to make Legacy able to control DCS, but they didn't want to open themselves to potential legal issues. (Clearly, that would have been the last thing they needed at the time.)

That was my understanding as well.

gunrunner John.  if you put two switches back to back it gives you the same routes a double slip has , just dosen't look so great on the iPad. wish they would make the program available for a PC or Mac so I could have a bigger screen to work with. LCS does work well and easy to set up. JMRI has a lot more functionality but it has a very steep learning curve ,  almost another hobby in itself.

Rick, that's what I opined previously, I just think it'll look somewhat ugly, but I guess it's as good as it gets.

I may have to spring for the larger screen Mac to fit a decent amount of the layout on the screen.

John. I was not aware it would run on a Mac. will have to give it a try

Perhaps another reason Lionel has for delaying the incorporation of DCS control is that they don't want to encourage people to buy (even on the secondary market) MTH engines, and dilute the demand for Lionel engines. I think it has been discussed before that (like most businesses) Lionel is in the business of selling their products, and not doing things to encourage potential customers to purchase the products of competitors.

I would maintain that's probably the primary reason.  They don't see any need to make it any easier to run DCS, but they were quite happy that DCS users could run TMCC/Legacy stuff.