NEW FRA EMERGENCY ORDER

The FRA is a branch of the Department of Transportation.  It reports to the Secretary of Transportation.

 

Most modern rail transit systems have power operated remotely controlled parking brakes.  To add this equipment to freight cars would take about as much additional equipment as the present air brake system has.  These park brake systems are fail safe.  The present railroad hand brakes are a problem for the railroads.  It hard to get them set when they are needed and hard to get them released after they have been set.

They are? According to who?  

 

Every car goes through a mechanical inspection which includes checking the hand brake. If they are not working, missing parts, or hard to turn, the crew bad orders it and it gets repaired. 

 

To release them you pull the handle or push up on the lever. How hard is that?

 

It is a manual process for sure, but definitely NOT hard to put them on or take them off. Laziness does not count!

David,

 

It seems to me that there is a bit of a difference in the requirements for brakes between a transit train set and a 135 car freight train.

 

ChipR 

LOL. Gotta love the armchair experts.

 

I have set hundreds, perhaps thousands of hand brakes, and I can count on one hand the number of times I have had a "problem" with a hand brake. And those problems were quickly and easily fixed.

 

I was not a career railroader like Wyhog, Laidoffsick, Big Jim, Number 90 a few others here. Those guys all have many more years in the industry than I do. Can you imagine how many hand brakes they have set?

How many mass transit cars are in service compared to freight cars on US, Canadian and Mexican railroads?

 

Plus, most if not all, mass transit cars are self-propelled and have MU-able connections or have feed through connections if not self-propelled.  Plus, from what I've seen on the CTA, even cars parked in storage yards still have power applied to them, so it's relatively easy to set a so called "parking brake" on all cars.

 

Rusty

 

 

Hi,  I suppose that we could use an explanation of how hand brakes work.  I am not a railroader.  I went to look at the location of the hand brakes on my modern Lionel and MTH  cars.  I assume that Lionel and MTH have the hand brake locations correctly represented on their models.  

 

It seems to me that you need to climb up a short ladder to reach the hand brake wheel.  The wheel needs to be turned to set the brake.  The wheel appears to be connected to the brake system with a chain.  I don't see a lever on any of my model cars that would release the brake after the brake had been set.  Perhaps this is a small detail that has been omitted.

 

Most hand brakes wheels seem to located near the coupler.  It appears as if the person setting the brake needs to go between the cars to set the brake using the brake wheel.  On some cars there is small platform on which a person could stand and set the brake.  On other cars it appears as if the person setting the brake would need to hang onto a ladder with one hand and turn the wheel with the other.  This could be difficult especially in bad weather.  

 

My questions are:

 

1.  How many turns of the wheel does it take to set the average brake?

 

2.  How hard is to climb up on every car?  How long does it take?  It seems as if could take a long time to set 20 plus brakes when you consider the time to climb on the car, turn the wheel, climb down, walk 60 to 80 feet to the next car, and repeat the process.  

 

3.  How are the hand brakes released?  Where is the release lever?  (I would think that you need to turn the wheel in the opposite direction to release the hand brake but I don't know.)

 

4.  I have never heard the term "skate" before.  It sounds as if it is some sort of wheel chock.  What is it?

 

Thanks,  Joe

 

 

 

You might want to start some rersearch here:  Wabtec Hand Brake

Rusty

So, just what operates this marvelous theoretical parking brake?  Raido? Wi-Fi? Cell phone? Cable running from car to car? 

 

Wasn't there a movement a while back to equip freight cars with electro-pneumatic braking.  This has been used for many years on EMU's and Subway cars.  It was once demonstrated to me on a Lackawanna "Edison" MU car.  Yes, it would cost money and require electrical connections between cars.

That's a system designed to stop a moving car more quickly and effciently, not necessarily hold it indefinitely. 

 

Plus, EMU's and subway equipment are not subjected to the conditions (like loading, unloading/scrap iron in a gondola, loading/unloading coal in a hopper, hump yards, banging, slack, etc...) that the typical freight car is.  UMU's and subway equipment are also not run in trains over a mile long.

 

Good luck trying to convince railroads in three countries to re-equip all of their freight cars.

 

Rusty

Let alone shippers with private equipment.  Sheesh!

 

Curt

Is the FRA under the USDOT?

YOUR 2 HANDS

This is a skate:

 

The conductor/brakeman places the skate on the rail just like this. The car is carefully shoved on to the skate so the wheels are spotted on the tongue of the skate and up tight into the arch. The weight of the car on the tongue provides a lot of friction between it and the rail, thus keeping the car from moving.

1.  How many turns of the wheel does it take to set the average brake?

Depends - usually between 6 - 12 turns to wind it up tight.

 

However many turns it takes to make it tight. All handbrakes seem to tale a different number of turns. Many hand crank levers as on auto racks and some locos take forever to crank up tight.

 

2.  How hard is to climb up on every car?  How long does it take?  It seems as if could take a long time to set 20 plus brakes when you consider the time to climb on the car, turn the wheel, climb down, walk 60 to 80 feet to the next car, and repeat the process.

How hard is it to climb a short ladder? Not a big deal. A good brakeman can tie a hand brake on a car in less than a minute. Setting hand brakes on 20 cars would take 20-30 minutes.

 

Less than 10-15 seconds in most low mount cases. High mounts would take a little longer. I had my own method of tying and releasing brakes that took a minimum amount of time.

 

3.  How are the hand brakes released?  Where is the release lever?

The lever is right beside or on top of the wheel. It's probably too small to be modeled on O gauge models.

 

That is if it has a quick release lever. Otherwise you had to spin it off like you put it on.

If Rich could count on one hand how many hand brakes he ever had trouble with, he better find a good piece of wood to knock on. There were some gorillas out there that would tie on a brake most of us 98 Lb. weaklings couldn't get off! Then there were some that just stuck and another brakeman or carman needed to come help get off. And yes, I wasn't beyond using my foot to help get one off, although, that was against the rules. Then again, there was a certain type of staff brake that needed two people to get released, one to tighten up the slack and one to lift a pall that was hidden inside the mount.

Yes, the FRA is part of the USDOT. 

 

As such the FRA Administrator would report to the Secretary of the Dept. of Transportation.

 

While I have no direct insight on what goes on at the FRA, my regulatory experience would lead me willing to bet a beer that the FRA was pressed to do something immediately to help assure that what happened in Canada would not happen here in the U.S.  Oversight of the FRA would come from both the White House (through the DOT) and directly from Congress.

 

Jim

 

 

OK, just how many hand brakes have you actually set and released during YOUR railroad career?

Rich and Big Jim,

 

Thanks for the explanation of hand brakes.  Rich - Thanks for photo of the "skate".  

 

Joe 

LOL - maybe MY glasses have become a little "rosy" now! 

 

It has been about 6 years since I set hand brakes on freight cars. Now it's just a locomotive hand brake once in a while at the CVSR.

 

Maybe the "Time heals all wounds" syndrome is at work here. 

 

quote:

Wheeze!

I would much rather crank a lever brake than have to crank a truck mounted electric brake hand brake in manual! Wheeze! Wheeze!

I've often wondered if some of those designers ever gave any consideration of what would happen if you needed to actually try and stop an engine with one of those kinds of hand brakes!!!

2.  How hard is to climb up on every car?  How long does it take?  It seems as if could take a long time to set 20 plus brakes when you consider the time to climb on the car, turn the wheel, climb down, walk 60 to 80 feet to the next car, and repeat the process.

How hard is it to climb a short ladder? Not a big deal.

 

Big Jim, I can tell that you have sit in the cab for a very long time! Did you not see your cornductor carrying stick like implement with a rather odd hook on the end? Did you not see him apply the end of said hook to the brake wheel and turn it numerous times before he asked for 3 step protection? Oh, I forgot, you was a runner! Long time on the non stops! Well, anyway, it seems as NS, its infinite wisdom, has provided the cornductor with a brake stick to turn brake wheels, before making a cut! No more climbing on cold wet metal and most brake wheels have been lowered closer to the ground.

98lb weakling? YOU?

I must admit that I am a bit of a newcomer to the railroad industry, But since 1962, I   never encountered a Brakeman, out on the main line, with a "brake stick"! Just what is this stick that you seem to think EVERY Brakeman or Conductor carries around with them?

We have one of those stupid things in the office at San Bernardino. The new modern style brake "stick", and yes its in the office. The funny thing is 99% of the trainman dont even know we have one, where its at, or what it looks like. 99% of the managers in the office don't even know what "the pole" in the corner is. I found it in there several years ago and took it out so we could all joke about it.

It's the new "safe" way to apply hand brakes.




You can also use it to open knuckles.

WHY you would use a stick to open a knuckle is beyond me, but there's the picture and it's on the internet, so it must be true.  

 

 

FYI,
The brake stick in question is made out of aluminum with something that works like a hook top engage the rungs of a hand brake wheel. It can be extended to almost twice its length in order to reach up to either apply or release a car's hand brake. Even though it can be extended, it won't reach a high mounted hand brake.

 

The up side is;

They allow one stand on the ground and operate most hand brakes.

In cases of freezing rain and snow, they do make it safer. 

 

The down side is;

Rules state that you can't use them to operate the quick release lever on hand brakes.

They are something else to carry around.

You have to keep extending it and collapsing it.

They are wet in the rain.

They will freeze your hands off in winter.

You have to put them down and pick them up to throw switches, etc.

Even if you drop down on the ground before dismounting an engine, you have to lift it back up to get back on.

They do not build up your leg & arm muscles because you are too lazy to climb up on a car.

Odd stares from civilians at the hotel wondering just what the heck that thing is you are carrying in your hand.

 

And...

Even though I spent my fair share of time in the seat, I could still set or release hand brakes faster that someone using a brake stick!

Of course, you all know that back in the bad ol' days, when brakemen "decorated" the car tops and hand brakes were actually used to hold down trains when descending grades (the "Armstrong" version of retainers and dynamic braking), brakemen carried a stout club to use for leverage on the brake wheel. 

 

They were also effective in repelling hobos.

Apples and oranges...

In my part of the world, a shunter used his stick to add extra pressure on the mechanical handbrakes. This interesting little film shows them in action a couple of times. (And a few nice shots of Southern steam too.)

  Here's a little info. on the electric brake trains or those that are equipped with the New York Air Brake ECP system.

 

 They do act just like an air brake in the fact they stop the train...but they use electric just as it states and not air so therefore they have to have a power source.And that does come via a EP-60 Inter-Car Electrical Connector on a properly equipped unit for ECP operation.

 

 But here's the problem when you detach a car or train from your locomotive the CCD Stand Alone battery will only stay charged for 24 hours,then you have no brake to hold the train other than a manually applied handbrake.

 So your back to square one,relying on the old tried and true handbrake.

 

 I don't care a whole lot for the electric park brake on some of the NS rebuilds.They have a tendency to hang up or bind the chain because they release so hard.I know hand cranking gets old and tiresome but they don't give as many problems with binding up the chain.

And THAT is one of the main things the Westinghouse airbrake eliminated the need for.

 

Rusty

 

 

quote:

They were also effective in repelling hobos.

Knock on hickory wood...I never had a problem with a hobo.

The MMA's 7 miles of descending grade eastward between Nantes and Lac-Megantic is only one tenth of a percent less than the mountain grade that was part of my territory as Road Foreman of Engines for an Eastern Class I railroad.  Albeit the grade was 9 miles longer than the MMA's, but, on that degree of gradient only 1 mile is enough to cause a disaster with an uncontrolled train or engine.  Absolutely, it was never permissible to leave a standing, unattended train ANYWHERE on that mountain grade.  That time for me was nearly 30 years ago.  The operating and train handling rules, together with timetable special instructions, that set forth how trains would be moved up and down that mountain (quite successfully) had been in place for decades---and long before we entered the age of looking to our incompetent government to instruct us on how to run trains---and every other facet of our lives.  So, with well-known senior (both age & position) MMA management having endless years of RR industry background, how could a train carrying such potentially dangerous material be allowed to be left unattended at the crest of long, descending and heavy grade?  Sure, things happen, plans fall down but it's my bet the MMA knew well in advance that their oil train would be stopped somewhere short of destination due to the Hours of Service laws applicable to their engineer.  But, why would they choose the crest of a grade as the point at which to have the train tied-down for the engineer's rest period?  There were other locations west of Nantes where topography would allow the train to rest in a "sag" or flat area (check elevations of the track on Google Earth).  Instead, as they obviously did, they allowed the train to stop and be tied-down unattended on a descending grade.  Do I hold the engineer responsible?  Yes, to the degree that he knew the implications of the grade upon which the train was left and could have refused to leave the train in such a precarious position.  But moreover, management is ultimately culpable for failing to ensure the quality and competence of their operation matched the levels demanded by the handling of heavy, unit oil trains over such challenging territory.  There is no one having a deeper disdain than me for the further dumbing-down of our railroad industry with more FRA-mandated rules, but sadly I must admit in this case the apparently poor operation of one of our own---the MMA---has brought it upon us, just as FRA-mandated locomotive engineer certification was brought to us courtesy of Ricky Gates and his 1987 Chase, Maryland tragedy.

 

Ichabod S. Finkelbaum

Just an FYI...

 

I worked with Mr. Finklebaum (not his real name) for many years and know him to be one of the best railroaders I have ever had the pleasure to work with.

 

We met many years ago aboard 765 (we were running on his territory) and I have run the 765 up and down the grade he mentions several times. We also worked together at the Ohio Central for several years before we both pulled the pin and left there.

Uh oh!!!
I left one important thing out of my down side list on the brake stick.

 

THEY MAKE GREAT LIGHTNING RODS!!!

 

Just ask the guy out in West Yard that found out the hard way!

People and industry should act in such a way to prevent giving the government cause by throwing them frsh, raw, red meat!

The government needs to pull their head outta their ***, use a little common sense, and stop coming up with these ridiulous "orders".....period!

That bill will effectively erase the Montreal, Maine & Atlantic from the Official Guide. I bet Ed Burkhardt wishes he had two man crews.

The FRA is part of the USDOT.

There are several hundred thousand freight cars in the North American fleet. Retrofitting them as you want would cost Billion$$$

This is as lame as the 4 Horn Honks per crossing or the Yellow reflective striping on locomotives (not Red), but ten years from now it will probably be Blue.

"Same penalties for non-compliance with Federal criminal penalties added."

Yep - It's ALL about the $$$