new house new layout build - shifting direction

Congrats on the house and great layout space.

There are reach issues in the corners of your plan, and I'm assuming you're planning an opening or lift-out in the area to the left of the coal mine.

Keep in mind that some longer locos won't run on the 54" radius switches.

Don't forget to paint the ceiling and update the lighting.

Nate,

I agree completely with what Mallard said. I'm a huge fan of an open, flat black ceiling mated with LED track lighting. Search this Forum for several threads on the subjects.

I note you want to get rid of the asbestos flooring. Be careful how you do it! Depending on its condition etc., it may be more prudent to leave it in place and cover it. I'm not the expert on this type of flooring, but I do know it's  huge can of worms and needs to be addressed properly.

Also, since you have decided to go with a more realistic look, think about your back drop. It is much easier to paint or install one before you build the layout!

That all said, have at it!

Chris

LVHR

I've not heard of asbestos 'flooring'... but, I have dealt with asbestos roofing tiles.  They need to be removed without breaking (asbestos is a friable material and fibers will be sent aloft into the air when breakage occurs) and bagged immediately... also, you have to consider where they are to be disposed of beforehand.  Encapsulating it with a self leveling thin set or concrete @ 3,500 or better psi would probably be better, safer and cheaper.  It would offer moisture resistance... then tile, paint or carpet over it.   The thin set you could probably do yourself... it's self-leveling.  Nice Layout BTW!

Old floor tiles can contain quite a bit of asbestos. Try not to tear them as you pry them up, but you will also have to contend with whatever adhesive was used to put them down. Very possible that adhesive also contains asbestos.

Just me, but the plan has an awful lot of switches.

I like the plan but it could use some tweeks here and there.  You didn't mention what track and switches you plan to use, but there aren't too many who make 054-072 curved switches. You might also consider using numbered switches to transition between the mains and even on sidings. The numbered switches avoid the "S" curve created by facing two 072's for example.

If a train is running counter-clockwise there is a reverse loop available, but I don't see how a train running clockwise would be able to reverse direction.

I can't speak to the number of switches on your layout, I'm approaching 30 switches myself.

Nice plan Nate. Loop running and operations.

I'm sure it's going to change a hundred times before you build it. Sounds like you already have a plan in mind for the space. Just make sure you leave adequate access to service boilers, furnaces, water heaters, etc. The electric service panel requires 3' clear access in front. I prefer having a ceiling above, not exposed beams, but it's your house so.....

A few comments on Asbestos floor tile (ACT).

Yes- it contains asbestos, but the manufacturing process bonded the fibers and it is not readily friable when broken. It can be removed carefully and disposed of. In New York State- any amount over 100 sq ft is considered a large removal and must be done under containment with proper filtration and air monitoring (at least in a commercial setting). Also, the adhesive can contain asbestos and may need to be chemically removed.

The alternative is if it is solidly stuck to the floor, you can encapsulate it with a proper floor prep product. Even if you have a few loose pieces, you can remove them and patch over the spot. I've gone over a few small areas in my basement and used Henry skim coat to level the floor. New tile or carpet can go over it and you have a brand new floor. I put down peel and stick tile and it is solid.

Good luck- Bob

What Dan said... and, here is another.  Use the largest turnouts you can.  My poor little layout has curves of O45, O54 and O72.  I used all #5 and O72 turnouts with curve easements (my O45 & O54 curves start and end with O72 curves) to facilitate smooth transitions between lines and curves as much as possible.   For me... they look & function a whole lot better.  Dan, I'm not far behind @ 25 turnouts...

Ditto on Bob's comments!  He's definitely more up-to-date than me on the asbestos and has experience (which I do not) with that type of flooring.

@Trainwreck nate posted:

I second what others have said, you should consider access to all parts of the layout now before you build!

I have a similar sized layout at 12 x 24 with a yard extension, and even though I added a large center opening and a pop-up on the other end, I still have places that are difficult to reach.  The white lines are the outlines of a power lift bridge for access to the center section.

The freight yard extension joins the main layout with a manual lift bridge, obviously it's fairly accessible as it's only 36" wide.

If I had it to do over, I'd think a little more about some of the access aspects.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

...

The fright yard extension joins the main layout with a manual lift bridge, obviously it's fairly accessible as it's only 36" wide....

Didn't know that you were planning a Halloween theme. 

@Mallard4468 posted:

Didn't know that you were planning a Halloween theme. 

Not sure of what the reference is for...  Are you talking about these tank cars?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Not sure of what the reference is for...  Are you talking about these tank cars?

Cool tank car… MTH or Atlas? Do you have it in stock?

@gunrunnerjohn, you mentioned a "fright" yard.

@Madockawando posted:

Cool tank car… MTH or Atlas? Do you have it in stock?

It was a special MTH run for the Arkema Chemical Company, they were never generally for sale.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

It was a special MTH run for the Arkema Chemical Company, they were never generally for sale.

oh well. I didn't realize that Arkema was a real company... Arkema sounds like a company name from the HP Lovecraft mythos.

@Madockawando posted:

oh well. I didn't realize that Arkema was a real company... Arkema sounds like a company name from the HP Lovecraft mythos.

They're actually a pretty large company: Arkema Chemical Company, in 2020 their gross revenue was nine billion dollars.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

They're actually a pretty large company: Arkema Chemical Company, in 2020 their gross revenue was nine billion dollars.

Very interesting. I don't interact with chemical companies in my line of work. There must have been a train fan in the company leadership for them to request this special order. It reminds me of the Zep Cleaning Company tank car and box car that Lionel did for Zep back in the mid 1990's.  Any other items in the Arkema series like a boxcar or flatcar?

@wb47 posted:

Just me, but the plan has an awful lot of switches.

Looks good for an operating layout; several areas for industries.  It is missing a dedicated yard lead, but the inside station track can be used for that.  The two inside station tracks can also be used as a yard run around track if no passenger trains are parked there.  Not ideal, but usable for one-two operators.

The curved switches I used were very sensitive to any change in elevation for the 3 leads. Take care leveling the table.

OK to many people to reply to, so it going to be one big post.

We now for sure that the floor is. This was my great grand parents house. Some tiles are already popped up and missing. Between my grand father, father and my self we think its the smart move. If we ever go to sell it later we dont need to worry about it then. We will we be sealing the floor after its all removed. Then followed with some carpet squares.

For the ceiling, its not at a standard height. Track lighting my be a little issue. For right now the plan is to go with recessed lighting. I havent really looked into any low profile track lighting.

Backdrops- Once the bench work is in the back drop will be put in place. That way i can match the elevation.

Access points- until the track plan is 100% i wont know.

054 curves- the only spots will be any of the curved switches. So most large engines wont be using them at all.

track plan- currently making some adjustments.

Carpet squares is a great idea! Definitely stay away from the interlocking rubber type. They are cheaper, but they also tend to be excellent generators of static electricity, which is bad news for electronics.

When I did the floor in my train room my employer was renovating offices. I talked with the contractor and was able to get all I needed and more to redo my room free of charge. The squares were in practically brand new condition, and I was able to keep them from going to a land fill. Win-win in my book! Ask around. You may get lucky!

Chris

LVHR

Wise move on the floor Nate. If you have it in the budget then its gone and never to deal with it again.

Carpet tile is great stuff. We use it in the buildings at the College I work for. If it can withstand college kids.........

Definitely research the track lights. With the advent of LED's they make some really small fixtures now.

Bob

@Trainwreck nate posted:

For the ceiling, its not at a standard height. Track lighting my be a little issue. For right now the plan is to go with recessed lighting. I havent really looked into any low profile track lighting.

Since I bought the house with a finished basement, I already had the lighting that I would be stuck with without a lot of work and expense.  So, I concentrated on making the existing lighting as good as I could.

Consider these wide angle and really bright PAR38 bulbs.  Sunco 2800LM 90º Wide Beam bulbs for the recessed lighting.  I was unhappy with the lighting with the stock bulbs over my layout until I got these.  BOY, talk about light!  I can also dim them way down for any mood, and they're as bright as I'd ever want lighting over the layout.  For only six bulbs over the main layout benchwork, they're more than sufficient, and the wide angle really spreads the light.  This is the 3rd bulb type I tried, these did the trick.

Still working on fine tuning the track plan. While talking with the wife about running some old conventional engines. She asked wouldn't it look weird running semi scale in a full scale and weathered layout. So going to cross a childhood dream off the list. We will be adding two loops that will be along the ceiling. Nothing to crazy just a large loop. I already have the proto type brackets ready. Just need to figure out how many I need to make now. I'm guessing for the brackets I will be spacing them out about 3 feet apart. Thinking of using 1/2 or 3/4 finished plywood and staining it.

I also highly recommend the carpet squares. I used 2'x2' tiles and they came out great. The seams almost completely disappear. This is the place I ordered mine from.

https://www.georgiacarpet.com/...ercial-carpet-tiles/

Nate, it looks like a good overall plan.  You are on top of the suggestions others made concerning the plan and the room.  We had to sell the house I, my dad, and my grandfather grew up in.  It had asbestos tiles in the kitchen.  The kitchen was vintage 1920s still when we sold it 2 years ago; except for the tiles, refrigerator, and stove.  The house itself dated to the 1880s.  We hated to see it go.  Here in Butler County, Pennsylvania, we didn't have to remove the tiles since they were intact.  However, Bob is on top of the process in NY (He's always on top of any regulations), which is usually one of the most stringent states on everything, so it seems.  It's good to get the room ready before building.  I should have put carpet tiles down on my cement floor before building my layout.  I'm looking forward to seeing this layout being built!

@Mark Boyce posted:

However, Bob is on top of the process in NY (He's always on top of any regulations), which is usually one of the most stringent states on everything, so it seems.

In California you'd have to demolish the house, bag all the debris, and take it to a hazardous chemical dump site.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

In California you'd have to demolish the house, bag all the debris, and take it to a hazardous chemical dump site.

Yes John, I don't doubt California is the most strict by far.  I wouldn't be surprised if they uber-hazardous sites to put all the hazardous chemical dumps sites in. 

Was hoping to finish the furnace and the start the floor this weekend. Our track department doesn’t have any one how know how to weld. So I’m going in tomorrow to weld up some damages  switch points. So not to sure how much will get done this weekend.

Luckily my grand father and father both own a construction company. So we have dealt with this stuff before. Hoping to have Everything ready for framing next month.

Ok not the best layout print. Thinking this will be as close as i get until i can really see it.

Green is for customer sidings

blue yard or service areas

red main line

yellow - track drops 3 inchs, the other track will go up 3 inchs.

Still not to sure where i will put the icing platform. Added in a full track lead and enought room to build a train. I know it wont really fit to well but I always wanted to model a barge. Will make a small fun switching area while sitting at the bar area. Yes you heard that right. With moving the turntable im able to go with my original. Up against the edge of the table will  be my bar edge table looking into the train room. This will also work well with the height the track will be built at. Running the height higher then normal will help  with the lift bridge look more to scale.

Well been toying around with another layout idea. I lose out on a couple of industries compared to the other layout. Will have more  elevation changes, mountains and tunnels. My max grade is 1.7%, all yellow track is a elevation change. No change is more then 3 inches total at once. That way I was able to cut down on the distance needed. This also helps with my plan to model PRR/ New England. Another thing I do gain from this is I added a small inter change on my branch line. This way I get some more operations when running. Mainly being coal mine will be located too left of the main line. Power plant is bottom left on the branch line. With mainly running PRR, B&A and B&M I think this will work well.
Tracks are as follows.

Red - main line                                                      
Blue - yard/ service                                              
Gray - branch line/ inter change                        
Green - 3inch elevation track                              
Yellow - elevation change

Things are starting to happen. Will be removing the old furnace this weekend and then removing the floor. But first all the trains need to be moved. Started boxing up all the rolling stock tonight. All the engines and rolling stock I’m storing on the 2nd floor. Sucks moving it all but rather keep it safe.

Yes Nate!  Better to box them up for safe keeping!

Well busy weekend got a bunch done. We were finally able to get the old furnace out. That was fun, took 3 of us a quad plus a come along. After that pulled up the old floor and skim coated the floor. Next will be removing the bad spots on the walls. Followed by framing one wall for the baseboard heat. Once I get the inspection completed the real fun starts.

Arctic Cat getting the job done! Looking forward to following you progress.

Surprised the furnace didn't draw the atv towards the house.  I got my ztr stuck and tried to use my atv to pull it out.  It started pulling me and the atv towards.  So I used my tractor instead.

I second on the carpet tiles.  I put them in my garage.  Easiest job ever and they came out great.  No adhesive required.   Other than sweeping no floor prep needed.  They are sticky-baked and don't move.

@Frank Mulligan posted:

Surprised the furnace didn't draw the atv towards the house.  I got my ztr stuck and tried to use my atv to pull it out.  It started pulling me and the atv towards.  So I used my tractor instead.

I second on the carpet tiles.  I put them in my garage.  Easiest job ever and they came out great.  No adhesive required.   Other than sweeping no floor prep needed.  They are sticky-baked and don't move.

We had the atv up against the house so it wouldn’t get pulled in.

@Trainwreck nate posted:

Well busy weekend got a bunch done. We were finally able to get the old furnace out. That was fun, took 3 of us a quad plus a come along. After that pulled up the old floor and skim coated the floor. Next will be removing the bad spots on the walls. Followed by framing one wall for the baseboard heat. Once I get the inspection completed the real fun starts.

WOW! That thing was a beast. We pulled an old (100+ years), steam boiler out of rental house recently. The demo crew broke it up in the basement but it didn't go down without a fight....

My childhood house had a side door right to the basement. Made it easy to get stuff up and down the stairs.

I bet your glad that job is in the rearview.

Bob