New Lionel E8 problems

Guys I know how to turn Rule 17 on. It’s not functional on this set.

Been a minute since I had my E9’s out so I can’t comment on rule 17. Really I’m more bummed On no strobe on the top of the cab. Any who I don’t ever recall a “hee-haw” sound is there a video of the sound anywhere I missed?

Here is the sound in an ES44AC. The E9 set has the same sound, but it doesn't play as frequently as it does in the ES44AC.  Maybe it's prototypical, but I don't know what it represents. 

@JFC454 posted:

Here is the sound in an ES44AC. The E9 set has the same sound, but it doesn't play as frequently as it does in the ES44AC.  Maybe it's prototypical, but I don't know what it represents.

Did someone at Lionel attempt to add some new sounds to it besides the prime mover? That appears to be something more like their rolling stock with the banging sounds.

That does happen quite frequently, to me it just simply sounds like metal creaking like you may hear on a steam locomotive. I typically only run steam so that's probably why I wouldn't have noticed it.

@zhubl posted:

That does happen quite frequently, to me it just simply sounds like metal creaking like you may hear on a steam locomotive. I typically only run steam so that's probably why I wouldn't have noticed it.

I agree that some of the creaking and “heehawing” sound like steam engine noises.  With my E9 set they occur at random in about 25 second intervals so they are not too noticeable.  On the ES44AC the interval is about 10 seconds.

I have a Mr Muffin E9 UP set, which fortunately has no control issues. I noticed the wheel squeal (which is what I assume it is) right away as something different from earlier Legacy diesels and just thought it was a new sound feature. On mine it is only obvious at slow speeds and frankly I am not bothered by it. I haven't measured the intervals but they are not as frequent as in the ES44 video posted above. When the engines are running at speed I can't hear it at all; they sound like typical E series locos, whether E7, 8 or 9, highballing along.

It would have been better if Lionel had announced or explained this change as it is otherwise unexpected, maybe even unwanted. And there doesn't seem to be a way to turn it off.

The absence of Rule 17 lighting I had not noticed, but these E9s come with ditch lights and I was more concerned to ensure that they work correctly (they do). If Rule 17 lighting has been omitted in these models I'd guess that Lionel had some reason for it but I have not checked whether it is prototypical for the headlight to be at full illumination when these engines are stopped. The cab light on mine comes on and off as you'd expect. Taken together the lighting features are good enough for me not to be concerned about Rule 17 control. But like the new sounds it is a little puzzling.

My set is also a very smooth runner with great speed and smoke output control. I am certainly satisfied with it.

Here’s the “hee-haw” sound on my E8 set. I actually like it , but it recurs a bit too often. Note the lack of Rule 17, even though it is set to Auto, and the presence of the awful background static. I love these engines, and am very glad Lionel was able to repair the main problem they had, but on all my other Legacy diesels there is no such static sound and Rule 17 works.

Well, I don’t hear any static like that on mine, but I hardly ever dial down the volume. When I have, I don’t heard the ticking/scratching sound, and I don’t think it can be right for that sound to be there. Never had that issue with any Legacy engine, but background racket/buzzing is present in a few TMCC Railsounds models I have. (Never been able to cure that and not everybody with the same models reports it; it may be a function of the track/transformer combo I use, or possibly some interference in the household circuit they are on or from an appliance.)

I guess if you listen hard enough to these particular models you will pick up some noise you don’t like but video recordings don’t always reflect what is heard in person. And sound will also vary depending on the playback device, whether you use earphones and what specs they have. Listening to the below short test vid of my E9s on a tablet with very standard spec earbuds, I think I hear some noises that I don’t in person, where all the sounds are smooth and in particular when running the set at speed:

On a positive note, I really like some of the changes to the sound package, such as the choice of 5 different horns and bell pitches and the more realistic, random crew talk....

Another improvement: when you quickly throttle down to zero at speed in order to get that squealing brake finish it now increases the pitch of the squeal just before the engine stops....

Can those of you who have this set check something for me? I know some of you have Rule 17 working and some don’t, but I just discovered another anomaly: when the engine starts moving I’m not getting the sound of the air brake release that is usual for Legacy diesels. Anyone else notice this?

@JamesRx posted:

Can those of you who have this set check something for me? I know some of you have Rule 17 working and some don’t, but I just discovered another anomaly: when the engine starts moving I’m not getting the sound of the air brake release that is usual for Legacy diesels. Anyone else notice this?

I did not notice this but I think you are right; I don’t hear that formerly standard sound with mine (see E9 set video above). Specific sounds are not mentioned in the catalog description of the sets of which mine is one. I wish Lionel had made it clear in what ways the sound sets were being modified other than the addition of the bell and horn options. Not a deal breaker for me but still slightly odd.

p.S. It might not mean anything but I notice that the manual for these sets mentions air brake release sounds when using Automatic Sequence Control, which I have not tried yet. The manual for the 2016 issue of E7s also mentions that sound in the same place. But with these and earlier E series sets I know that the sound was there when starting up manually.

Looks like Rule 17 and the brake release at startup got lost in the shuffle when they redid the Legacy electronics. Air brake sound is still there when the engine comes to a stop, fortunately.

Too bad the boards can’t be reprogrammed remotely. I won’t send it back to Lionel again just to get those 2 features restored.

@JamesRx posted:

Looks like Rule 17 and the brake release at startup got lost in the shuffle when they redid the Legacy electronics. Air brake sound is still there when the engine comes to a stop, fortunately.

Too bad the boards can’t be reprogrammed remotely. I won’t send it back to Lionel again just to get those 2 features restored.

Yeah, I think that you are right again. If I understood the memory requirements for Legacy (despite asking, I don't), I suppose I'd think it's possible that certain features were eliminated to make room for extra bells and whistles/horns. Losing them in the shuffle seems more likely until you consider that Lionel has been pretty careful about certain prototypical features lately - to the surprise of some of us, who were expecting something different in line with what they have produced in the past.

I'm not griping, I'd just prefer to have what they have decided to do explained, if not also why.

Well I just called my dealer and my E8 is still at Lionel after almost 2 months from it being sent to them.

@Hancock52 posted:

I did not notice this but I think you are right; I don’t hear that formerly standard sound with mine (see E9 set video above). Specific sounds are not mentioned in the catalog description of the sets of which mine is one. I wish Lionel had made it clear in what ways the sound sets were being modified other than the addition of the bell and horn options. Not a deal breaker for me but still slightly odd.

p.S. It might not mean anything but I notice that the manual for these sets mentions air brake release sounds when using Automatic Sequence Control, which I have not tried yet. The manual for the 2016 issue of E7s also mentions that sound in the same place. But with these and earlier E series sets I know that the sound was there when starting up manually.

If that were the case, Rule 17 and brake release would be out of all Legacy engines especially other E8s that seem to have it.  I'm not convinced this is the case.  A programming issue maybe but not a loss of the feature intentionally.  Maybe @Dave Olson could weigh in.

I think @MartyE hit the nail on the head. These are new boards and while I’m sure Lionel Engineering has done plenty of tests but obviously some things slipped through. I’m also sure @Dave Olson and the whole team will continue to improve and work the kinks out 😉

You’re right....Dave just informed me the missing Rule 17 was a bug in the new boards that has been fixed. I’m guessing the brake release is the same story. The service department, which fixed my other problem, was apparently not aware of the programming issue, even though I mentioned to them that Rule 17 didn’t function. He offered to take the set back in to reprogram but I’m going to keep as is; I’d rather not take the chance that anything gets damaged in shipping back and forth again.

This is where I wish authorized service centers could reflash the firmware are these and RCMC boards. I can understand why they want to keep that in house but I would think the benefit for us would be great. A service center keeps 1 of each board and can flash it as needed not having to wait for a board to show up.

Since the stalling/stopping issue has been fixed for others, I called to get a RMA and will be sending back the custom run Amtrak E9s.  Glad the were able to fix the issue.

@Tony H posted:

Since the stalling/stopping issue has been fixed for others, I called to get a RMA and will be sending back the custom run Amtrak E9s.  Glad the were able to fix the issue.

Yes Tony, whatever was causing that issue, and it was a near constant problem with my set, they were able to eliminate it completely.

So the set has returned from Lionel and is back in service on the main line....

Well I got mine back today, yes on a Sunday, and it seems fixed.  No stalling issue when addressing another unit.  The message from Lionel said reprogram the boards.  Sent it on the 15th, just just over a month to get it back.  My second interaction with Lionel support, fixed my issue both time, very happy.