New Lionel FA AA Locomotive sparking/getting stuck on fasttrack uncoupling track?

I suspect the pickup rollers are hanging up on the  uncouping magnets.

Secondly. The uncoupling magnet sticks up higher that the middle rail, possibly pushing the roller up far enough to short on the truck bottom.

Assuming these new fa's use the same pickup assembly as the old tmcc models. These are unique and somewhat prone to sticking due to the way they float.

If at all possible. I'd try shining a flashlight under the truck as the loco creeps over the ucs and try to observe what's actually happening.

Once you know. Then maybe some creativity can solve the issue.

Is there anything besides the pick-ups hanging down that could get caught on the U/C track ? A photo of the bottom of the engine might help.

Assuming not, it sounds like the pick-ups might be getting hung up and I would try:

1. Check the spring tension and make sure the pick-ups are able to easily and freely move up and down. Also, make sure the pick-ups are mounted facing the correct way.

2. Make sure the pick-ups are mounted straight and not at an angle. You can also try swapping the pick-ups and see if that helps.

3. Make sure the rollers are super-clean and spin freely. I use a Dremel and a mild abrasive brush like the ones below to clean mine.

4.  Try using an electrically conductive lubricating oil on the rollers, like Bachman's EZ-Lube.

5.  Make sure the U/C track is not sticking up higher than the surrounding track.

6. If the pick-up is actually going too far up and shorting against the frame (like RickO mentioned), you should be able to stick a piece of tape on the frame where it hits to stop that from happening

No, you didn't buy a shelf queen. If you want help, #1 the product number should be in any "help me" post. Second part is, OK, you have a problem but the engine runs on normal track. So let's figure out what is special and what is hitting on something causing the short.

Just as important as the product ID, is a picture of the problem. So I would have posted highly detailed close up pictures under the trucks or where you can see it sparking so we can identify what is wrong and if any parts are even required to fix. Could b something as simple as something loose (a screw) and moving and shorting out, a chaffed wire, or some other simple detail.

Last, it's York Week. Everyone is likely busy and up at the show. A few of us stayed back and gladly will help with technical questions but you might not get as many answers and as quick an answer when posting right in the middle of the York show. Again, with the limited information- I'm not sure anyone else could guess the exact problem but the fact the train still runs means likely this can be repaired.

Looking forward to more information and again pretty sure this is not doom and gloom.

I had a problem with a new loco getting stuck on a certain turnout,..   turns out it wasn't the turnout at all.   Rather this tiny spring had slipped on one of the trucks,

It was easy to press back in place and never had any problems again,

Guys, thanks so much for your input... I am still new to this but learning everyday.  Never had something like this happen.  The model number is: 6-8442.  I used a dremel to clean the pickups, lubercated the rollers, wheel axles and lightly greased the gears.  Upon further inspection, it is 100% the pick up lifting the drive wheels enough to lose traction...  Never ran into this issue before...  What is the fix?  I have also taken pictures of the rollers themselves....  One was kinda crooked, and I straightened it out.

Again, thank you everyone for all your help!

You meant http://www.lionel.com/products...t-1616-1617-6-84422/

Typos happen.

Correction. I thought this was similar to a club members that had 2 powered units. This version the second one is a dummy. That easily explains the traction issue. This is depends on the traction tires and even then, may not be able to pull as much as some other engines.Another factor- that loose and angled pickup roller needs properly tightened (1 screw) and aligned to not short to other rails.

#1 find out which of the 2 is the problem engine - and that stray pickup roller may be part of it. Again, run each engine single one at a time and determine which has a shorting problem. You obviously have to pull the dummy behind something.

#2 I do not know if you got a remote with the set, or if you are using a universal remote (orange one), using the Lionel Lionchief Bluetooth app or if running conventional. My experience was that a club member had a set of these AAs and they were problematic under conventional. They ran MUCH better under remote or Bluetooth. Conventional AKA transformer just was not the same control feel and you lose a lot of functions.

The factory remote for this engine https://www.lionelsupport.com/...-FA-BLUETOOTH-684422

Otherwise, the universal remote http://www.lionel.com/products...-controller-6-83071/

Lionchief app http://www.lionel.com/bluetooth/

Again, see my correction, I went back and looked at your picture and realized there were no gears on the second engine's trucks.

So yeah, completely understand why it might not have the strongest pull. The pickup roller should not generally have a strong enough spring to lift up the truck to lose traction, but again, this just may not be the puller of the century either.

The traction tires are intact and on there on both trucks. At least I think both sides do, the near side to the camera in this shot does

Correct, 2nd loco is a dummy.  I have gotten the springs as straight as I can, but no change.  By far strongest springs of all 5 of our lionchief locos.  I only run it on the universal remote.

Of note, it does seem there is an indentation on the bottom of the truck in which the roller constantly makes contact (I think this may be the spark).  There was definitely signs of carbon/arc resdue....

Should I replace the rollers or take it in to a service shop?

You are correct, all traction tires are in place with very little wear.

@Vernon Barry posted:

No, you didn't buy a shelf queen. If you want help, #1 the product number should be in any "help me" post. Second part is, OK, you have a problem but the engine runs on normal track. So let's figure out what is special and what is hitting on something causing the short.

Just as important as the product ID, is a picture of the problem. So I would have posted highly detailed close up pictures under the trucks or where you can see it sparking so we can identify what is wrong and if any parts are even required to fix. Could b something as simple as something loose (a screw) and moving and shorting out, a chaffed wire, or some other simple detail.

Last, it's York Week. Everyone is likely busy and up at the show. A few of us stayed back and gladly will help with technical questions but you might not get as many answers and as quick an answer when posting right in the middle of the York show. Again, with the limited information- I'm not sure anyone else could guess the exact problem but the fact the train still runs means likely this can be repaired.

Looking forward to more information and again pretty sure this is not doom and gloom.

Kinda kicking myself I wasn't able to attend.  My 14 month old had a pretty bad ear infection...  My 4 year old was pretty bummed.  From what I hear it is the place to be...  Unfortinate, as it is only about an hour drive from my house...

NEXT YEAR!

Update:  Took it to a local dealer.  They not only said the roller springs were too stiff/misaligned, they also said the trucks were misaligned and the entire motor housing frame needed to be replaced on the drive loco because if a misaligned truck on both the dummy and drive loco.

If the parts are able to be found, it is still going to cost labor for the repair....  What a let down.

Lessened learned.  When Lionel sells something "As Is" during a clearance sale, be weary...  If I would have known this $200 loco required significant parts/labor, I would have gladly spent a few extra bucks to avoid the headache and have the warranty in-,tact.

Thanks for all yourhelp. .

@Perry Power posted:

Update:  Took it to a local dealer.  They not only said the roller springs were too stiff/misaligned, they also said the trucks were misaligned and the entire motor housing frame needed to be replaced on the drive loco because if a misaligned truck on both the dummy and drive loco.

If the parts are able to be found, it is still going to cost labor for the repair....  What a let down.

Lessened learned.  When Lionel sells something "As Is" during a clearance sale, be weary...  If I would have known this $200 loco required significant parts/labor, I would have gladly spent a few extra bucks to avoid the headache and have the warranty in-,tact.

Thanks for all yourhelp. .

Yikes! That seems like a lot of issues. Not sure this will work, have you tried placing a piece of tape on the truck to prevent the roller from touching the truck? It runs absolutely fine everywhere except on the uncoupling track?

I've had this problem, and solved it in two different ways.  In one case, the fastrack uncoupler had swollen so I dremeled the plastic down level.  Repeat for an older uncoupling track.  In a third case, I put a piece of electrical tape under the loco so the roller would contact it instead of the frame.

@Perry Power posted

Lessened learned.  When Lionel sells something "As Is" during a clearance sale, be weary...  If I would have known this $200 loco required significant parts/labor, I would have gladly spent a few extra bucks to avoid the headache and have the warranty in-,tact.

Thanks for all yourhelp. .

Wow. I appreciate you posting this. I too almost bought something from them. Although they were sold "as is" I assumed they were checked to at least run. Sorry you have to deal with this.

To me "as-is" means there's a significant chance that something significant is wrong with the item, no matter who is selling it.  Unless you're a tinkerer walk way, or you'll surely be disappointed.

Those of us who are tinkerers never see that disappointment in such a purchase, no matter how bad it is.  Instead the challenge of fixing what's wrong is actually fun.

Mike

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

To me "as-is" means there's a significant chance that something significant is wrong with the item, no matter who is selling it.  Unless you're a tinkerer walk way, or you'll surely be disappointed.

Those of us who are tinkerers never see that disappointment in such a purchase, no matter how bad it is.  Instead the challenge of fixing what's wrong is actually fun.

Mike

Mike, I have learned so much building this layout, from wiring, electricity, carpentry, soldering, etc....  While "tinkering" can be fun, having a disappointed 5 year old upset because his brand new locomotive isn't working is so sad to see....  As a father of 3 young kids, I really don't have the time to do much tinkering, especially when there may be parts that are needed.  All in all, I have to say I am pretty disappointed with the purchase, but as with everything, lesson learned.

@Burl posted:

I've had this problem, and solved it in two different ways.  In one case, the fastrack uncoupler had swollen so I dremeled the plastic down level.  Repeat for an older uncoupling track.  In a third case, I put a piece of electrical tape under the loco so the roller would contact it instead of the frame.

Burl, I have 4 uncoupling tracks.  and it did it on all of them.  What's more, the truck assembly itself seems to have something to do with the issue. 

@PRRick posted:

Wow. I appreciate you posting this. I too almost bought something from them. Although they were sold "as is" I assumed they were checked to at least run. Sorry you have to deal with this.

I too thought it was just factory overstock they were trying to unload.  The box came sealed in plastic wrap and looked untouched.

@Perry Power posted:

Update:  Took it to a local dealer.  They not only said the roller springs were too stiff/misaligned, they also said the trucks were misaligned and the entire motor housing frame needed to be replaced on the drive loco because if a misaligned truck on both the dummy and drive loco.

If the parts are able to be found, it is still going to cost labor for the repair....  What a let down.

Lessened learned.  When Lionel sells something "As Is" during a clearance sale, be weary...  If I would have known this $200 loco required significant parts/labor, I would have gladly spent a few extra bucks to avoid the headache and have the warranty in-,tact.

Thanks for all yourhelp. .

Can’t imagine how all that stuff can be wrong if it runs ok, except over the uncoupling track. Try the tape on the truck block above the roller, and see what happens.

@Perry Power posted:

Recently purchased my son a Lionchief Plus FA/AA diesel during Lionel's warehouse sale for $200.....  The loco came in a sealed box.  We have had nothing but problems since.

Our layout is all FastTrack.  When the loco goes over any uncoupling track, it sparks.  If it goes over the U/C track too slow, it will literally get suck/trip my MTH1000 breaker.  If it goes over the track in reverse, it instantly trips the breaker.  I have tried cleaning the pick ups/making sure they are secure....Nothing.

Normally, this would be a warranty issue, however, all sales were final...

Any fixes?  Or did I just buy a really expensive wall hanger?

Are you using Aux In or Track Power to power the Uncoupler track? Is it 6-12020?

How is the MTH Z-1000 connected to the track/layout?

Have you run just the powered unit to isolate which loco is shorting and to determine if it operates correctly?  Then, remove the motored unit and push the unpowered unit around to test.

The collector (roller) and insulator(s) on the dummy are inexpensive to replace Lionel Parts (clickety-click) An ohm meter would test to determine if the collector or wire is shorted.

How did the powered unit run?

UPDATE 2.0:

I misunderstood the terms of the warehouse sale.  All sales ARE final, but THERE IS a 90 day warranty on the items. The item is being sent back to Lionel on Monday....THANK GOD.

To the prior comments, my Z1000 is wired the same way in which my CW80 was wired.  Connected two positives and two grounds for each loop of track.  Both the powered loco and dummy do the exact same thing.  Each loop has its own  bus, and all uncoupling tracks are run at 18 volts.  Less than ideal, but the uncoupling tracks are used momentarily, have had no issues, and show now signs of wear ( we have the saw mill and lumber loader, both of which work fine at track power.   My cw80 runs the accessories at 14vlts, and I connected the track power of that transformer to control lighting.

This isn't a voltage issue.  The pick-ups are so strong, that when moving at slow speeds, if the roller doesn't contact the magnet of the uncoupling track, it will physically lift the drive wheels of the loco off the track to the point they lose traction....  Even at the shop, with brand new track, it does the same thing.  It also does this on ALL of my 5 uncoupling sections.

This is the ONLY one of 5 locos that has done this.  I am glad they have a 90 day warranty, as something clearly isn't right.  I will keep everyone posted as I know more.

@Perry Power posted:

UPDATE 2.0:

I misunderstood the terms of the warehouse sale.  All sales ARE final, but THERE IS a 90 day warranty on the items. The item is being sent back to Lionel on Monday....THANK GOD.

To the prior comments, my Z1000 is wired the same way in which my CW80 was wired.  Connected two positives and two grounds for each loop of track.  Both the powered loco and dummy do the exact same thing.  Each loop has its own  bus, and all uncoupling tracks are run at 18 volts.  Less than ideal, but the uncoupling tracks are used momentarily, have had no issues, and show now signs of wear ( we have the saw mill and lumber loader, both of which work fine at track power.   My cw80 runs the accessories at 14vlts, and I connected the track power of that transformer to control lighting.

This isn't a voltage issue.  The pick-ups are so strong, that when moving at slow speeds, if the roller doesn't contact the magnet of the uncoupling track, it will physically lift the drive wheels of the loco off the track to the point they lose traction....  Even at the shop, with brand new track, it does the same thing.  It also does this on ALL of my 5 uncoupling sections.

This is the ONLY one of 5 locos that has done this.  I am glad they have a 90 day warranty, as something clearly isn't right.  I will keep everyone posted as I know more.

So, you are running the uncoupler track on track power.

I will be specific with my MTH Z-1000 question... is it connected to the track directly from the transformer brick or through the controller with the brick connected to the controller via the barrel plug?

Why didn't you test each loco and report the results?

You can send the engines in for warranty service, but still, you won't know what the cause of the problem is (was).

You can't make assumptions without troubleshooting to acquire facts.

Update 2.0.

Unit sent to Lionel, they replaced the trucks on the powered unit.  Got it back a week later.  Does the same thing (not fixed).  Called Lionel, it is going back for a second time.  I have also included a video this time around showing exactly what the loco is doing.

@Moonman posted:

So, you are running the uncoupler track on track power.

I will be specific with my MTH Z-1000 question... is it connected to the track directly from the transformer brick or through the controller with the brick connected to the controller via the barrel plug?

Why didn't you test each loco and report the results?

You can send the engines in for warranty service, but still, you won't know what the cause of the problem is (was).

You can't make assumptions without troubleshooting to acquire facts.

It is hooked up via the controller via the brick by plug. 

@Perry Power posted:

It is hooked up via the controller via the brick by plug.

That is good. You will find that the barrel connector has a center neutral and an outside hot. When one cuts the connector off many times it gets connected reversed causing sparking and shorting. It is a strange thing that MTH did with it. The accessory power terminals are clearly marked. The controller internally phases it to the red and black terminals.

The center of the uncoupler track should be hot. You can see if the track power was not in phase the roller of the engine would cause a short if it touched the uncoupler center.

I would like to see the video. It doesn't seem to be attached to the update post.

Thanks for the info.