New member Needs Help

Lawrence:

Barry says to use the MTH Z4000 transformer. Do you agree?

Steve

Steve,

Thanks for the picture. I was hoping the 24"r track would fit on the left leg so we wouldn't have to modify it. It looks like there is plenty of room. That means we can keep the 5' area on the right leg. When I am at work tomorrow, I'll redraw the benchwork and see what I can change.

It looks like you have more than enough straight track for the S gauge mainline. Just to double check, the straight pieces measure out to 12", correct?

Yes, the straight track is 12"

Steve,

I believe the S gauge portion of the track plan is finalized, so you may start working on it. You will need 14 12" straight pieces, 3 12" straight pieces for custom cuts, and 30 24"r curved sections to finish the plan.  

I'm not happy about the S curves, but due to the size constraint, they are there. To be sure the track plan will work, I would like you to set up an S curve and run your engine and rolling stock through it. Watch for any binding, stressed couplers or derailments.

"S" curve -

Lawrence:

You say the S track plan is finalized, and I may start working on it. However, I need to order more 24" track, and you didn't send the final plan. I did receive the "S" curve picture, and will test it as requested.

Regarding the "O" plan, you have not commented on the plans I sent you, or choice of transformer.

Steve

im a lionel ZW fan when it comes to transformers

OK, I see the problem...you were asking Lawrence, and my name is Stewart

I just went and checked my email on the computer. For whatever reason, they did not pop up on my cell phone inbox, but they are in my computer inbox. I will look over them and draw them out for you to view.

In regards to transformers, I would recommend the Lionel ZW or MTH z1000 based on two loops of O gauge mainlines. The newest Lionel ZW is a beast, but expensive. From what I've read here on the forum, modelers are purchasing the ZW and selling their MTH Z1000's, so this could be a good time to find a used MTH z1000 in good shape.

In regards to the S gauge mainline, I often think faster than I type and probably assumed you were up to speed. Even though you still need more 24"r track, you can start fitting the S gauge mainline temporarily into place. I'll walk you through the steps below in my next post with some pictures.

Sorry, I was talking to Lawrence about something else. 

No biggie!

We'll wait for the remaining S gauge track to arrive before continuing. As I was creating the tutorial, it was getting too involved. When the track arrives, let me know and I can walk you through laying it out. This is what the S gauge mainline will look like when completed. Remember, this is O gauge track and shows the approximate location.

I'll draw up the other two plans tomorrow at work.

No problem on the "S" curves. 

Steve,

Here is the first plan I worked on. The O gauge track plan is a nice one by itself. However, when you add the S gauge mainline on top, most of the switches are hidden in tunnels, which could complicate operations.

Just for comparison...

Stewart:

I see what you mean. I only sent it to you because he sent it to me, and I thought there might be something we could use.

Steve

Steve,

Here is the Gargraves version...

Is there anything from either of their plans that you want to incorporate?

Stewart:

I have ordered the "24"r S track, should have it in a few days. My O trains arrive tomorrow. Once you finalize the plan, and tell me how much O track I will need, I'll look for and order the additional O track that I will need.

I have O-36 (25), and straight (20).

I haven't ordered the transformer yet. I can use the transformer I have, temporarily, until I order the DCS system and power supply.

Steve

Steve

Steve,

Haven't forgotten about you! I am seeking out a couple of individuals to take a look at the track plan to see if we can tweak it much. I think we should have it finalized by Friday at the latest.

If any forum members would like to make any suggestions, please feel free to respond.

Stewart:

Thanks. Again I appreciate your help.

Steve

Steve,

Here are a couple of possible options. The first changes the O gauge track plan under the right mountain. Since that track won't be seen, it was modified to use less track.

The next track plan moves the reverse loop on the right to inside the mountain. In order to access the hidden switches, you will have to cut an access panel (which probably would've been cut anyways in case anything happens in the tunnels. The upside is that new visitors will be surprised when the train exits in the opposite direction.

Stewart:

I'm inclined to go with the first one, it seems less complicated. Just received the Gargraves plan with the S loop included(blue), and I'm attaching it in case you think there's anything there worth considering.

Will probably order the DCS today, still undecided about power supply.

Steve

Im no expert on MTH, but I remember posts about some MTH trains not liking certain Lionel transformers, they wont start in conventional maybe? Considering the way you seem to be leaning to MTH. For ensuring compatibility, sticking with that brand for your power purchases my be a wiser choice. The difference is mainly chopped vs actual sine wave on the outputs, a subject best covered by the more knowledgeable, like Barry.   

Barry seems pretty definite about using the Z4000. That's what I will do.

Steve

Stewart:

Tomorrow I am driving to Atlanta to buy the DCS system from a train shop. While there, I might like to buy some Atlas track, if they have it.

Reading your track plan I am estimating the following:

LT O-36 (2)

LT O-45 (1)

RT O-36 (1)

Straight 10"    (12)

            40"    (2)

            4.5"   (5)

            5.5"   (1)

            1.75" (6)

            1.25" (4)

The 2 middle straight ones and the 2 small ones on the right are not marked.

Some have dots. What does that mean?

I know I'm jumping the gun a little, but if they have it, I want to buy it.

Steve

Steve,

Before you leave for Atlanta, do a quick search online for Atlas track so you have a good comparison on price. Also, look at ebay as a means to find reasonably priced new/used track.

Track list #1 uses as much sectional track as possible, with only 4 pieces of custom cut track. The custom cut track will be cut from 2 10" sections. It will be more economical than track plan #2.

Track list #2 uses as much custom cut pieces of track as possible. The advantage here is that the longer pieces of track will reduce any electrical gremlins which may pop up from using multiple sections of smaller track, and fewer screws will be required to hold the track in place.

Stewart:

Yesterday bought the DCS system, 2 switches, and some track. As you may know, Atlas track is in short supply so I'm using online sources and eBay to find the rest of your list.

Bought Z400 on eBay.

Steve

The Z-4000 was a great choice.

with all that space, and potential, its kinda to bad you have your heart set on using S gauge with the 3 rail O

Stewart:

I have received the rest of the S guage track, but I have set it aside since I need to set the O track on the main level first. I should be receiving the balance of the O track early in the week. As far as the tutorial you mentioned, I will need it for the O layout first.

I have been watching Eric Siegel's videos on YouTube, and have learned a lot.

Once I get the track down, I'm planning on following his methods for tunnels, mountains, and etc.

Steve

I went and did a search and found the videos you were reffering to. That is a great technique that I will have to use as well, but with a modification. I think creating a longer section of tunnel and then making cuts to bend the tunnel on a curve would make the build go much faster, as well as building the jig to the correct width to begin with.

Stewart:

I have received all of the "O" gauge track, and am ready for the tutorial.

Steve

Hi Steve,

Glad to hear you have all of your track in! Sorry to make this short, I haven't had much time in the last couple of days. Here's the short and skinney of what to expect...

1. Lay the outer loop of O Gauge track.
2. Lay the inner loop of O gauge track.
3. Build control panel and run wiring for O gauge track.
4. Complete tunnels, cut out access panels, and make cuts for any water features.
5. Lay S gauge track.
6. Wire S gauge track.
7. Complete tunnels and mountains.
8. Scenic layout.

To get started while I start writing, place the track for the outside loop on the benchwork and loosely fit it into place. I find having a sharpie or pen and paper handy for notes helps.

Chapter one starts tomorrow!

!!!!!I'm writing this tutorial based on the use of sectional track. If you are using multiple custom cut sections of track, let me know so I can make the changes!!!!!

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.....ok, hopefully this tutorial won't be that long  so let's start laying some track!

• We are going to establish the corner stone that will dictate how all loops of track will be laid. Start in the back left corner of the layout and lay out a 1/2 curve of O-45 track and a piece of 40" track (1). Place a tunnel portal at where the track changes color. (I would recommend a double portal.) Ensure the 40" section of track is parallel to the back edge of the layout. The leg of the portal will ensure you have sufficient distance from the back edge of the layout.
• Continue the circle of O-45 track and add a 10" section of track (2). Place a tunnel portal where the track changes color. (Again, I would recommend a double portal.)
• Check the distance from the track to the left edge of the layout for overhang clearance (3). I think 1" to 1 1/2" from the ties to the left edge should be sufficient. Run your longest freight cars and locomotive around the curve. Reposition the portals if required.

• Secure the curved sections of the track using track screws. Also, trace around the curves with a marker in case anything gets bumped out of place. Do not secure the 40" section of track as you will be removing it to cut out the water feature or adding a bridge.
• Continue laying track along the back of the layout and into the right leg.
• Place a tunnel portal (Double) over the 4 1/2" section of track and check for fit. (4) Again, the portal leg should provide sufficient clearance from the right edge of the layout. (Based on where the S gauge mainline will be laid out, you may have room to move the portal back onto the O-45 track that is blue. We'll visit that later.)
• If you do no have sufficient room for the portal against the edge, start by removing a 1 1/2" section of track. (5) If you still don't have room, remove the other 1 1/2" section of track. Please let me know if the track plan needs to be altered.
• Continue to complete the first loop, remembering to switch to O-36 curved track. The last step will be to custom cut a piece of track for the resulting gap.

Let me know when you've completed the outer loop and then we'll move on to the inner loop. If you have any questions, let me know.

At this point, I know you are ready to run a train. You will probably need four feeds to distribute power over the rails. Since this is only temporary, just run the wires over the layout. We'll save the real wiring for a later date.

Stewart:

Wow, great information, nice of you to do it. I'm going to be slowed down a little due to unexpected company. Also, I have to build a few tunnel portals, and learn how to properly cut track. I should be caught up by the middle of the week. When I am, I'll let you know.

Steve

Stewart:

Outer loop is done, ready to move on to the inner loop.

Steve

Steve,

Glad to hear! A picture of the update would be great to see! Did you have to remove any sections of track? Have you run a train on the track yet?

Steve,

The S curve in the inner loop has bugged me, so I made a quick edit. Take a look at the picture below let me know if you would like me to make the change permanent.

You should go with the elimination of the S. If you want to be able to back up even an inch while there, you need it gone.

Stewart:

That change is fine. I have completed both O loops, didn't have to remove any track, and ran the train on both. You will see from the attached pictures that I extended the outer loop on the left side, what do you think? The pictures will show the beginnings of my tunnel, pretty close to the edge, but not unlike the included photo.

I am certainly open to any changes you might suggest.

Steve

Just an observation, you may have interference between trains running at the same time on this stretch, they seem to be pretty close.

A few more

Thanks for the reply.How much space is recommended?

Steve