New Sound Boxcars From Lionel - Compare PS-1 vs Vision Line

They are even made yet, we will have to wait to see some prototypes if we are lucky at York.

I thought both types of boxcars themselves already existed and these were just those existing tooling with sound added in.  Or am I mistaken?   So I guess I'm interested in both types now because they have sound.  But now that I'm interested curious if the vision line will look too big.  But that would be the case for any vision line boxcar, not just the sound versions.  I think in the 2016 catalog Lionel mentions the previous vision line boxcars sold out.  So I just assumed people have these already, just not with sound - same for the PS-1 boxcars.  They exist already just not with sound.

Being Vision Line, I'd imagine they are scale. Since they are based on a 1950's freight car, I'd imagine they'd look okay with traditional rolling stock too.

The more I think about it, the more I want the Chicago Northwestern version.

MOPAC01,

    I have two Lionel scale PS-1 Boxcars and they are pretty big (height wise). They have been on the market for some time. Make a trip down to your local hobby store they may have one in stock so you can check it out. My guess is they are going to be too big next to Rail King cars. 

    My best advice start buying scale stuff and sell off any non scale cars. If you stick to scale cars you don't have to worry how they will look next to another (scale) car.

My opinion of Lionel's PS-1 boxcars is they are very nice. The ones I have have a simulated load when the doors are opened.

JohnB

If that's the case, could someone take a picture of one taken next to something traditional, like a 6464 boxcar or a SP 6017 caboose? For a size comparison?

MoPac, there was a thread here some time ago, which I just tried searching for and everything came up for me as not available. But in that thread, there were side by side comparison photos of box cars from various manufacturers to illustrate size differences. Like Lionel traditional versus MTH Railking, etc. Each photo showed two box cars. I should have saved that thread... it was a good one.

I googled some of the key words and came up with these:

https://ogrforum.com/t...premier-freight-cars

https://ogrforum.com/t...andamp-o-27-car-size

In that second link the poster never identified the manufacturers of the box cars. The last one on the right, is obviously a scale one from Lionel, Weaver or Atlast. The next one (the NH) looks like a Williams or maybe MTH Railking... hard to precisely say by this photo though.

Even though the Lionel cars you question are not released yet, I doubt Lionel would do brand new tooling for the sound box car, but rather will utilize the existing PS-1 box car with the sound package inside.

Hope this helps. a little. Maybe someone has linked the other thread I was talking about or has photos of their own.

Here is a photo that should answer your question....

In the center there is a traditional postwar lionel boxcar (similar dimensions to most rail King boxcars).

On the left is a scale lionel PS-1 boxcar (same dimensions as the freight sounds boxcar lionel will be making).

On the right there is a scale lionel refer car (same dimensions as the vision line refers that lionel will be making).

-both scale cars are larger than a traditional (railking) sized car

- the refer is closer to the dimensions of a traditional sized car than the PS-1 boxcar is.

One option if you want a sound in a traditional size boxcar is to buy the scale car and put the speaker and electronics in a traditional size car. Modern 6464s have scale sprung trucks so it should be easy to swap the pickup roller trucks with the trucks on the 6464 car. Drill a few holes for the speaker and bobs your uncle. You should not have any problem reselling the scale boxcar.

Pete

Thank you!

BigJohn&theWork posted:

Here is a photo that should answer your question....

-both scale cars are larger than a traditional (railking) sized car

- the refer is closer to the dimensions of a traditional sized car than the PS-1 boxcar is.

 

Thanks a GREAT deal for this.  I had (incorrectly) assumed the PS-1 (I guess because it was less expensive and only getting the non-command control sound) that it would be closer to the railking sized car than the more expensive reefer with the full command control.   The middle car and the right car in your photo don't look odd to my eye at all.  The PS-1 on the left does seem to stick out QUITE a bit.  If what you're showing is accurate, I think the 3 reefer command control sound set (only 1 is sound) is the way to go.  

mopac01 posted:

BigJohn&theWork posted:

Here is a photo that should answer your question....

-both scale cars are larger than a traditional (railking) sized car

- the refer is closer to the dimensions of a traditional sized car than the PS-1 boxcar is.

 

Thanks a GREAT deal for this.  I had (incorrectly) assumed the PS-1 (I guess because it was less expensive and only getting the non-command control sound) that it would be closer to the railking sized car than the more expensive reefer with the full command control.   The middle car and the right car in your photo don't look odd to my eye at all.  The PS-1 on the left does seem to stick out QUITE a bit.  If what you're showing is accurate, I think the 3 reefer command control sound set (only 1 is sound) is the way to go.  

I am happy I could be of help. I would agree that in your case it seems the vision line set is the best option. 

Looks like the sound boxcars will be PS-1s, and the reefers will be the same car style that has already been released. PS-1s were pretty tall boxcars, so that type looks particularly large next to non-scale cars. Many other boxcar types are lower, but are still scale sized.

Real railroads have always run a considerable variety of sizes of boxcars, tank cars, hoppers, and everything else, so model railroaders have a lot of leeway as far as running different size cars together.

Also of note, from what time frame are your RK box cars?  The more recent ones are bigger then the older ones.  I have some from 5-10 years ago that are more traditional sized, and some I bought this last year that look great with the VL Reefers.  I plan on getting more reefers and the new sound boxcars and will run them with whatever I have.

sinclair posted:

Also of note, from what time frame are your RK box cars?  The more recent ones are bigger then the older ones.  I have some from 5-10 years ago that are more traditional sized, and some I bought this last year that look great with the VL Reefers.  I plan on getting more reefers and the new sound boxcars and will run them with whatever I have.

My RK box cars are all around 2000-2002 vintage.  Every year when I get them out for the Christmas carpet railroad I'm always impressed by how heavy and "substantial" they feel when compared to some of the much lighter and more plastic Lionel cars I have from the 90's.  It's why most of the freight cars I've bought were RK.   My Lionel engines pull mostly MTH freight.

PS1 boxcars tend to be tall compared to other scale boxcars like AARs.  I think they will look funny with traditional cars mixed in since already they stand out with scale box cars like they should. 

Theses new sound cars to me are all you really need with the min/max setting and volume control.  Most of us will not be hitting the dialog buttons for loading and unloading too often like on the vision line cars.  Transposing the sensors and electronics into a traditional box car would be a good option assuming the fatboy speaker will fit.  We won't know much much until we see them in person but like others mentioned, go to your local hobby store and look at any recent lionel PS1 boxcar and see if for yourself.

I have a feeling these cars will be great sellers and I will order a few myself knowing that I  do not to like the look of the higher PS1s (even though they are prototypical).  If I surround them with lower cars like flats, gondolas, or hoppers, the extra height is less noticeable to the eye if that bothers you.

If my predictions are correct, and these are good sellers, Lionel will make more of them perhaps in other boxcar types which are lower and may be even into hoppers or tankers, and hopefully into traditional sized boxcars too.

This is a no brainer for our trains and hopefully Lionel will crank out more types of cars with freight sounds both scale and traditional sized.

It seems like they've taken a little different tact with the sensor boxcars.  They are offering one traditional sized and one scale.  Since my interest is UP/Kansas City Southern at the rate they are offering them (1 road name per boxcar style) it may take awhile to get one that fits in for me - PRR is way outside the western routes I have interest in - but at least they appear to be including both the full and traditional sized folks.  

With the sensor cars you can swap the shells to make them anything you like, probably the same with the sound cars.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

With the sensor cars you can swap the shells to make them anything you like, probably the same with the sound cars.

While that's certainly true, I applaud Lionel's addressing both groups of customers for the sensor boxcars directly rather than requiring folks to purchase and modify.  I imagine there are numerous folks who would rather not immediately perform surgery on an item they've just spent around $100 on.    Some enjoy that, but others like to keep them "stock."

Stock-smock, where's the toolbox!

I would of hoped for a Sound & Sensor car...  1 car doing both.

Might still be able to rig one after the 2 ships.

Jim

Jim Sandman posted:

I would of hoped for a Sound & Sensor car...  1 car doing both.

Might still be able to rig one after the 2 ships.

 

Jim

With the roller pickups on the car, there are no boundaries.

I'm guessing there's plenty of room in even the traditional car for both options.

I'm guessing there may be a higher margin on the fully amortized costs of the boxcar tooling versus the newly designed sound boards and sensor boards.  Why would Lionel want to miss getting that higher margin twice (on 2 boxcars) versus only once if they sold all of the electronics together?  It's our hobby.  It's their business enterprise. 

MOPACo1,

   I agree just good sound business to separate them into two different Box Car, as Guns says however we will probably swap shells and combine the electronics into one nice Box Car.  I have a real nice Lionel Scale PRR Box Car that will probably get the call.

Wish Atlas would make one of these Sound Box Cars I would love to use one of my Atlas Premier Steam Era Woodside Box Cars as a Sound Car especially on my Masonic Trains.  First things 1st, we see how these Lionel Cars really work.  Jeff's review was pretty informative, but I want to get one on my own layout and try it!

PCRR/Dave

I fully agree, I'm not suggesting that Lionel should have done this, it's pretty obvious why they wouldn't. 

I honestly wonder why it's not been done long before now - the sound car I mean.  I doubt there's anything there that would require any more command functionality than existed day 1 of TMCC.  

Various other cars with sound have been done, I guess they decided it was time for a "generic" model.   There is no command functionality in these, they just have a switch and a volume control.

GRJ - I understood the PS-1s do NOT have command functionality as you noted.  But I believe the vision line reefer sound car in the 3 car bundle DOES have full command functionality since you can trigger the dialogs from your Cab remote.  

I'm on the fence with these as I'm sure they will lack my two favorite features of the Vision cars, train brake and flat wheel. However, I will probably pull the trigger on one as the sound cars get a lot of attention while running at shows. 

I have a Chessie PS-1 boxcar that I think I'm going to convert to sound. This first run doesn't have any road names that interest me (B&O Time Saver is too retro) but I'll probably buy it any way and swap shells as Gunrunner John said.