@MartyE posted:1.6 Legacy Manual. Unfortunately this info is not in the engine manual but should be.
Marty - I'm sure Genoz will be appreciative of it! 
Wow thanks Marty, the manual is badly lacking those directions. When I first opened the brand new box I thought I was missing the chip that goes into my Cab 2 for programming. So I picked up some tips on this forum however I’m was not sure if I am getting all of the benefits so you opened a new world to me. I’m excited to see if there is even more stuff! I’ve spent some time with the app and can change the whistle on it but haven’t figured out how to do it on legacy 990. Anyway it is an amazing machine unlike the old conventionals that I run.
@Genoz posted:Wow thanks Marty, the manual is badly lacking those directions. When I first opened the brand new box I thought I was missing the chip that goes into my Cab 2 for programming. So I picked up some tips on this forum however I’m was not sure if I am getting all of the benefits so you opened a new world to me. I’m excited to see if there is even more stuff! I’ve spent some time with the app and can change the whistle on it but haven’t figured out how to do it on legacy 990. Anyway it is an amazing machine unlike the old conventionals that I run.
Page 20 explains how to change the whistle/horn and bell. Push Aux1 then pull the whistle/horn slider down to change the whistle/horn. Push Aux1 and push the bell activator up to change bell.
Oh. RTFM! I fell asleep at page 17. Thanks for your help everyone.
@Catonsville Central Railway posted:Wow! I’ve got mine (SP Lines 4449 to match my 18” aluminum SP Lines passenger cars from a number of years back) on order from Charlie Ro, hopefully will be seeing it soon! Where did you get yours from?
Great! Do they match? Curious what shades of red and orange these are painted.
@BobbyD posted:Great! Do they match? Curious what shades of red and orange these are painted.
I’m very curious about this too as I may not be seeing my Daylight GS5 for a while yet and I have only found one fairly indistinct photo of a Daylight GS4 online.
On the basis of that and the Eric’s Trains video, I have concluded that this run of Daylight VLs is probably not a close match for the 2010/2005 Lionel 18” Daylight cars I have, which may be the same ones you are referring to. Three of them are shown below, in front a pair of cars from the 2010 Shasta Daylight set and behind the dining car from 2005. The colors are significantly different but in both cases are remarkably similar to the colors shown in the relevant catalogs:
The 2010 Shasta cars are noticeably more red than the earlier car although the difference doesn’t bother me much.
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@Genoz posted:Oh. RTFM! I fell asleep at page 17. Thanks for your help everyone.
Don't forget that you can toggle the class lights from Off/Green/White and off again by using the Engine Marker light control either on the main numerical keyboard or under the Aux2 lighting menu. The tender can also be toggled if equipped. Lionel has done some fantastic electronic upgrades in this last batch of Legacy engines.
@MartyE posted:Don't forget that you can toggle the class lights from Off/Green/White and off again by using the Engine Marker light control either on the main numerical keyboard or under the Aux2 lighting menu. The tender can also be toggled if equipped. Lionel has done some fantastic electronic upgrades in this last batch of Legacy engines.
Very useful tutorials, Marty, on both lighting and sound. I knew some of this stuff before but forgot!
@BobbyD posted:Great! Do they match? Curious what shades of red and orange these are painted.
@Hancock52 posted:I’m very curious about this too as I may not be seeing my Daylight GS5 for a while yet and I have only found one fairly indistinct photo of a Daylight GS4 online.
On the basis of that and the Eric’s Trains video, I have concluded that this run of Daylight VLs is probably not a close match for the 2010/2005 Lionel 18” Daylight cars I have, which may be the same ones you are referring to. Three of them are shown below, in front a pair of cars from the 2010 Shasta Daylight set and behind the dining car from 2005. The colors are significantly different but in both cases are remarkably similar to the colors shown in the relevant catalogs:
The 2010 Shasta cars are noticeably more red than the earlier car although the difference doesn’t bother me much.
I have not seen the new one yet, but from the pictures I've seen online, the new Daylight appears to be very close in color to the 2016 release, which I have. The 2016 ironically doesn't match the 2016 Daylight passenger cars, which are darker and closer in color to the 2010 18" aluminum and 2010 Alco PA, but it does work well with the lighter, creamier-colored 2005 cars. So I would expect that the Vision Daylight should work best with the 2005 18" release, but not the 2010 18" or 2016 21" cars.
@Catonsville Central Railway posted:I have not seen the new one yet, but from the pictures I've seen online, the new Daylight appears to be very close in color to the 2016 release, which I have. The 2016 ironically doesn't match the 2016 Daylight passenger cars, which are darker and closer in color to the 2010 18" aluminum and 2010 Alco PA, but it does work well with the lighter, creamier-colored 2005 cars. So I would expect that the Vision Daylight should work best with the 2005 18" release, but not the 2010 18" or 2016 21" cars.
It should be noted the 2005 cars are lettered in the early 1937-1945 scheme "Southern Pacific Lines", while the later Shasta cars are post 1945 "Southern Pacific". I believe Lionel has done both versions of Daylight northerns., if not they should have.
Pete
@Catonsville Central Railway posted:I have not seen the new one yet, but from the pictures I've seen online, the new Daylight appears to be very close in color to the 2016 release, which I have. The 2016 ironically doesn't match the 2016 Daylight passenger cars, which are darker and closer in color to the 2010 18" aluminum and 2010 Alco PA, but it does work well with the lighter, creamier-colored 2005 cars. So I would expect that the Vision Daylight should work best with the 2005 18" release, but not the 2010 18" or 2016 21" cars.
Thanks!
I always just focus more on the 'passengers' inside the cars on the higher end cars I own rather than the colour/shade of the car itself as the train passes by. 
@Norton posted:It should be noted the 2005 cars are lettered in the early 1937-1945 scheme "Southern Pacific Lines", while the later Shasta cars are post 1945 "Southern Pacific". I believe Lionel has done both versions of Daylight northerns., if not they should have.
Pete
They do/have, at least in the GS5s, which are the only ones I have looked at in detail.
I forgot to mention the difference in lettering. I have a 3rd Rail GS4 with the bigger "Southern Pacific" lettering but opted for that before I understood the difference!
The GS-4 4449 was offered in both versions this catalog. I went for the Southern Pacific Lines one which I should be able to post pictures of either Saturday or Sunday.
@Will Ebbert posted:The GS-4 4449 was offered in both versions this catalog. I went for the Southern Pacific Lines one which I should be able to post pictures of either Saturday or Sunday.
Many thanks!
@Will Ebbert posted:The GS-4 4449 was offered in both versions this catalog. I went for the Southern Pacific Lines one which I should be able to post pictures of either Saturday or Sunday.
As additional information, SP4449 is currently painted & lettered in the "as delivered" 1941 scheme, with the train number indicator housings located in the forward position on the skyline casing. Models with the post 1946 large "billboard" SOUTHERN PACIFIC tender lettering, should also have the train number indicator housings relocated rearward to about the middle of the skyline casings (the angle of the indicator housings is also different).
@Hancock52 posted:Very useful tutorials, Marty, on both lighting and sound. I knew some of this stuff before but forgot!
Dave Olson has been doing some pretty good videos on these called "Demos with Dave". I haven't found them on their YouTube channels but are available on Facebook without signing up. Just use the link on their home page.
@Hot Water posted:As additional information, SP4449 is currently painted & lettered in the "as delivered" 1941 scheme, with the train number indicator housings located in the forward position on the skyline casing. Models with the post 1946 large "billboard" SOUTHERN PACIFIC tender lettering, should also have the train number indicator housings relocated rearward to about the middle of the skyline casings (the angle of the indicator housings is also different).
Thanks for the info. It looks like the Vision models have a silver smokebox. I've seen pictures of 4449 with silver and gray at various points in time. Do you know if thr colors correspond to particular time periods or just whichever shade was picked at the time of painting?
@Will Ebbert posted:Thanks for the info. It looks like the Vision models have a silver smokebox. I've seen pictures of 4449 with silver and gray at various points in time. Do you know if thr colors correspond to particular time periods or just whichever shade was picked at the time of painting?
The only time I can remember the smokebox paint color being gray, was when she was painted black for the BNSF Employee Appreciation operations.
Some additional thoughts and information that may of interest to any of you "rivet counters" out there:
If you are modeling the "modern era", i.e. after the red, white & blue American Freedom Train era, there are some technical details on 4449 of today, that would NOT have been prototypical for anyone attempting to model a Southern Pacific Daylight passenger train of the 1940s through 1958:
1) The whistle as been relocated from inside the skyline casing, forward to beside the right (Engineer's) side of the exhaust stack.
2) The 27 pin diesel MU receptacle mounted on the back of the tender.
3) The various additional diesel MU air hoses between the engine and tender, plus on the rear of the tender.
@Hot Water Am I correct in my understanding that the real 4449 tender does not have rear marker lights on the tender as the Lionel model does? Did any of the GS-4's ever have them?
@Catonsville Central Railway posted:@Hot Water Am I correct in my understanding that the real 4449 tender does not have rear marker lights on the tender as the Lionel model does?
Correct.
Did any of the GS-4's ever have them?
Rarely, since they were portable electric marker lamps, i.e. hung on the available mounting brackets, and plugged into their respective electrical receptacles. Besides, being passenger locomotives, rarely did any of the GS class locomotive require marker lamps on the rear.
@Catonsville Central Railway posted:@Hot Water Am I correct in my understanding that the real 4449 tender does not have rear marker lights on the tender as the Lionel model does? Did any of the GS-4's ever have them?
They could have them. Power and mounts clearly visible.
Taken by me in 2009.
Pete
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@Norton posted:They could have them. Power and mounts clearly visible.
Taken by me in 2009.
Pete
Wow, that's a great photo!
(I wonder which urethane enamel was used for this paint job - too shiny for anything else.)
If I recall correctly 4449 did have marker lights on her tender at some point(s). I think they were present in 2007 for the Pudget Sound doubleheader event with the 844.
@Hancock52 posted:Wow, that's a great photo!
(I wonder which urethane enamel was used for this paint job - too shiny for anything else.)
We have always used Dupont Imron paint, ever since the American Freedom Train days. With that paint, no mater how dirty she gets, including an overflow of black oil in the tender bunker, she cleans up beautifully by using mineral spirits or diesel fuel, and finishing off with Dawn detergent.
@ES44AC posted:If I recall correctly 4449 did have marker lights on her tender at some point(s).
As I stated above, the marker lamps are portable, and when not required they are kept locked up in the tool car.
I think they were present in 2007 for the Pudget Sound doubleheader event with the 844.
I believe so, since she had to make a light move from the Brooklyn Round House and back again, after the weekend trips.
@Hancock52 posted:Wow, that's a great photo!
(I wonder which urethane enamel was used for this paint job - too shiny for anything else.)
One thing the photo demonstrates is how reflective light can alter the perceived shades of color. Compare the orange on the engine to the rear of the tender.
This was taken in Portland in 2015. For the photograpers out there I admit to little if any photographic skills. Photos taken with a Nikon digital SLR in "Auto" mode. Colors and white balance complements of the brain implanted in the cameras memory.
Pete
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@Hot Water posted:We have always used Dupont Imron paint, ever since the American Freedom Train days. With that paint, no mater how dirty she gets, including an overflow of black oil in the tender bunker, she cleans up beautifully by using mineral spirits or diesel fuel, and finishing off with Dawn detergent.
Oh reminds me went with my dad one day. We were doing some work on a backhoe. I had the bright idea of using diesel fuel to clean it up. Looked real good real shinny. He was running the machine the next day and all the dust from the job stuck to the machine. We didn't know to finish with dawn. Years latter we got a good laugh out of it.
@Hot Water posted:As additional information, SP4449 is currently painted & lettered in the "as delivered" 1941 scheme, with the train number indicator housings located in the forward position on the skyline casing. Models with the post 1946 large "billboard" SOUTHERN PACIFIC tender lettering, should also have the train number indicator housings relocated rearward to about the middle of the skyline casings (the angle of the indicator housings is also different).
Technically the train indicator boards moved mid-boiler much earlier than 1946. GS-2 and 3 classes were delivered with the boards up front. After the GS-4’s were delivered in 1941 with their MARS light, it was discovered that the indicator boards were difficult to read with the flashing MARS light. SP shop crews began moving the boards to the mid boiler location some time in 1942. By 1943 all the GS-4’s had been changed over.
It should also be noted that the GS-6 was delivered in 1943 and came from Lima with mid boiler indicator boards. This class never had front located boards.
For a purist SP modeler, the SP Lines lettering on a GS-4 with forward mounted train indicator boards has a very short time period for being prototypical.
So most importantly, do we yet know if the new 2020 Daylight locomotives match the 2005 Lionel aluminum Daylight cars or not?
@BobbyD posted:So most importantly, do we yet know if the new 2020 Daylight locomotives match the 2005 Lionel aluminum Daylight cars or not?
No, we don't know yet - or at least I don't as mine hasn't even shipped yet, and there's a shortage of pictures, which however might be remedied this weekend by another poster on this thread.
However, meanwhile, if you want to try to make a comparison, two days ago the Instagram account known as AmericanOGauge had a close-up still and a short video of the VL Daylight 4449. I don't think I can post the still photo here as I am not sure exactly who it belongs to, but the colors shown in it look pretty similar to me to Lionel's last Daylight 4449, which I think was issued around 2016. I don't think that was, or these VL models will be, a very close match for the 2005 cars, but won't be so different as to make anyone who is not a total purist wince.
I personally would rather the new run doesn’t match the 2005 cars. The colors that Lionel used in the early 2000s aren’t quite right. The scarlet red almost has a fluourescent quality to it and is a little on the pink side.
I have the 2005 set and will probably put the cars up for sale after I get the GGD set
@Hancock52 posted:.....I don't think I can post the still photo here as I am not sure exactly who it belongs to, but the colors shown in it look pretty similar to me to Lionel's last Daylight 4449, which I think was issued around 2016. I don't think that was, or these VL models will be, a very close match for the 2005 cars, but won't be so different as to make anyone who is not a total purist wince.
@Ryan Selvius posted:I personally would rather the new run doesn’t match the 2005 cars. The colors that Lionel used in the early 2000s aren’t quite right. The scarlet red almost has a fluourescent quality to it and is a little on the pink side.
I have the 2005 set and will probably put the cars up for sale after I get the GGD set
The 2016 Daylight engines didn't quite match the 2005 aluminum passenger cars, but were pretty close. I didn't care to have them different, though, even a little (just me), and so I kept my no. 11127 Legacy GS-4 Daylight from '08, which matches the cars perfectly. Same reason I have a "wait and see" attitude toward these new Vision versions. Even if they're a perfect match with the 2005 cars, the 11127 is a great engine, and I'm not sure I see the need to spend all the bucks to replace it with a Vision version. The Shasta Daylight cars Lionel did in 2010 were a much duller shade of orange and scarlet, and while they matched the PAs that were produced with them, they didn't match the Daylight steam engines at all.
It's interesting that the Lionel Daylight MPC-era 15" aluminum cars from 1982-83, the Madison cars from 1983, and the scale Heavyweights from 2008 were all pretty much dead matches with each other, as well as with the 2005 18" aluminum cars. They also match the scale GS-2 from 2004 as well as the '08 GS-4. Lionel used to be very good at matching colors.
It will be interesting to see the colors of the new Vision Daylights. It'll be a bit of surprise if they match the 2005 cars, especially given Lionel's difficulty with colors over the past number of years, but it will be nice if they do.
Can't say I agree with Ryan about the scarlet red - I don't find it has a fluourescent quality or pink tone. Of course, people's color perceptions are different. It appears to me that the 2005 Lionel aluminum cars are very close to prototype, at least of the current 4449 and cars. The colors of the GGD cars (and GGD Daylight engine) have a much duller and less vibrant shade of colors. They may match some Daylight colors from the past, I don't know, but they don't appear to match the Lionel colors at all.
The appeal of all these colors is subjective, of course, and people will have differing opinions.
Well, here is a fine video of a GS Daylight, this one with the steam from the dynamos = a whole lotta smoke! Thanks to the forum member who posted this on his channel. My take on it is that the Daylight colors do not look different from those I have seen on Lionel models going back to about 2013:
My specific example of an earlier Daylight scheme is the cab forward from 2013, which this new model seems to match - or at least near enough for me:
Hancock52,
Thanks for posting that video showing the dynamo smoke. I am a PRR and a whistle steam fan so I never planned on ordering a SP engine but I did think to myself that I would not be satisfied with dynamo steam instead of whistle steam. Boy was I wrong that engine looks great with all those smoke effects. May have to buy more smoke fluid stock.
JohnB
@JohnB posted:Hancock52,
Thanks for posting that video showing the dynamo smoke. I am a PRR and a whistle steam fan so I never planned on ordering a SP engine but I did think to myself that I would not be satisfied with dynamo steam instead of whistle steam. Boy was I wrong that engine looks great with all those smoke effects. May have to buy more smoke fluid stock.
JohnB
The GS5 that I ordered was cataloged with dynamo smoke but it was later announced it would have whistle steam instead. Frankly I am glad because the dynamo smoke effect looks a little overwhelming to me! Visitors also tend to be more impressed by smoke effects you can trigger off and on and with the whistle you get the sound as well of course.
At this stage I just want to get my hands on mine to test it out. The other thread on the VL GS1 started by Bruk basically shows how to get the boiler off if you need to, which is not something I want to try doing unless I have to.
Too much smoke for me. If Lionel still makes money selling ERR to 3rd Rail then I wish we could preorder with no electronics. Let me install ERR cruise commander and GRJ’s products as to what I care for.
I'll post more pictures and videos later, but just got it out of the box. Beautiful engine! 
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Here's some better photos of the Daylight GS-4 (Southern Pacific Lines 4449). I'm really pleased with the model. I can't get the classification lights on thr engine to change color but the ones on the tender do. OGR isn't letting my videos upload even though they're under the file size limit.
As someone who has worked on a number of steam locomotives, I will say the crew talk dialogue is acceptable on this engine. A lot of it is just conversational stuff, which I really like. A good number of options to choose from. There's also a fairly accurate whistle to my ears, although I'll primarily use the horn since that's what SP did.
Great job Lionel! This is my first Vision Line locomotive, but not my last!
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