The hits keep on coming!
http://www.weavermodels.com/page19.html
Brian
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Good job weaver made in the USA
quote:Originally posted by Lackawanna1223:
The hits keep on coming!
http://www.weavermodels.com/page19.html
Brian
We O scalers (gaugers?
) must have bee nice and not naughty this year!
I'm pleasantly shocked that Weaver continues with new road-specific cars...
If anyone from Weaver is checking this thread:
CP/CN Fowler Dominion 36' boxcars!
ULTX X-3 tankers!
40' double-door wood sheathed auto-boxes!
WOOT!
Brian
If anyone from Weaver is checking this thread:
CP/CN Fowler Dominion 36' boxcars!
ULTX X-3 tankers!
40' double-door wood sheathed auto-boxes!
WOOT!
Brian
Way to go Joe Hayter(sp) at Weaver Models! YAY!!!
Great looking car. Any chance the CB&Q, C&S, or FW&D had any of these?
Hot,
These were PRR-specific cars, but the Long Island had some...Jersey Central and Reading had relatively similar cars...
Not sure if the Burlington or affiliates had anything close...
The PRR had about 13,000 of these guys (first built in '02 and I'm pretty sure a decent amount made it into the mid 50's), so they're a prolific road-specific car to do...
It IS a pity nobody has done the Greenville 52' mill gon that Proto 2000 does in HO -- quite a few roads had these (including CB&Q) and they were pretty common, but I figure nobody will touch that because the mentality seems to be "Well, Atlas has an ACF mill gon and Lionel has a P-S mill gon, so why bother?"
Either way, I'm quite happy...it's a cool prototype and Weaver seems to be on a roll...
...now if they'd just do some Lackawanna commuter/suburban coaches...
Brian
These were PRR-specific cars, but the Long Island had some...Jersey Central and Reading had relatively similar cars...
Not sure if the Burlington or affiliates had anything close...
The PRR had about 13,000 of these guys (first built in '02 and I'm pretty sure a decent amount made it into the mid 50's), so they're a prolific road-specific car to do...
It IS a pity nobody has done the Greenville 52' mill gon that Proto 2000 does in HO -- quite a few roads had these (including CB&Q) and they were pretty common, but I figure nobody will touch that because the mentality seems to be "Well, Atlas has an ACF mill gon and Lionel has a P-S mill gon, so why bother?"
Either way, I'm quite happy...it's a cool prototype and Weaver seems to be on a roll...
...now if they'd just do some Lackawanna commuter/suburban coaches...
Brian
This gon is a PRR GR class,a little over 16,000 built in 1902, some still in MOW service in mid sixties. Some of the class was converted to flats to transport the M4 Sherman tank during WW2. This car was used in steel product transfer. This info was obtained by the PRRT&HS Gondola book, a great read. Hat's off to Joe Hayter for once again producing a neat, unusual car and made in the USA. Regards, John P.Dunn Sr.
Well, as usual, another EXCLUSIVE piece of PRR rolling stock. Bummer! I like it so much I just may have to have 1 or 2 anyway.
But why is Weaver making all those other road names, EXCEPT Long Island?
But why is Weaver making all those other road names, EXCEPT Long Island?
.now if they'd just do some Lackawanna commuter/suburban coaches...
Brian,
for what it's worth, the American Standard kit of a 21 window NYC coach is the same car as used by the DL&W. these are not 'Boonton' open vestibule cars but mainline coaches.
Brian,
for what it's worth, the American Standard kit of a 21 window NYC coach is the same car as used by the DL&W. these are not 'Boonton' open vestibule cars but mainline coaches.
quote:This gon is a PRR GR class,a little over 16,000 built in 1902, some still in MOW service in mid sixties.
Even I might want one if it looks like I can replace the PRR aspect with CVRR lettering; CVRR probably had a few in the era when these were new.
quote:But why is Weaver making all those other road names, EXCEPT Long Island?
Errr......ask Weaver maybe?
Martin, or you can get an undecorated.
From the Weaver website: Our 40' Woodside Gondola will be available in 12 different liveries, plus undecorated.
Perahaps you can even get it painted, but without markings.
From the Weaver website: Our 40' Woodside Gondola will be available in 12 different liveries, plus undecorated.
Perahaps you can even get it painted, but without markings.
quote:Originally posted by PRR Man:
Martin, or you can get an undecorated.
From the Weaver website: Our 40' Woodside Gondola will be available in 12 different liveries, plus undecorated.
Perahaps you can even get it painted, but without markings.
Yes, but if I can get it painted with just the dimensional data on it, that would be optimal,
I must be getting really lazy........
quote:Originally posted by Lackawanna1223:
Hot,
These were PRR-specific cars, but the Long Island had some...Jersey Central and Reading had relatively similar cars...
Brian
One has to wonder if at the same time the Weaver folks are tooling the GR/GRa car they will realize that it's based upon the FM flat? I know they have a generic 40 footer but the FM ran into Conrail days as MOW cars.
As for the CNJ/Reading cars, they are similar but not exact. In the 90's when Central Hobby Supply in upstate NY was having F&C come out with O scale resin kit versions of their "West Shore Line" HO resin cars (remember the Erie 4 bay covered hopper, NYC Despatch shops covered hopper, etc?) I mentioned to the Central folks that they ought to have F&C do the Lehigh Valley Wrongway door cars as well as the CNJ/RDG wood side cars offered as part of the RPI hobby shop collection. Unfortunately the O scale resin car sales were abysmal and Central Hobby Supply took a bath on the O scale kits so the hope of things like the gons, LV wrongway door cars, or the ultra cool F&C Armour meat reefer coming out in O died on the vine.
quote:One has to wonder if at the same time the Weaver folks are tooling the GR/GRa car they will realize that it's based upon the FM flat? I know they have a generic 40 footer but the FM ran into Conrail days as MOW cars.
I thought Weaver's 40' Flat introduces a couple of years ago WAS the PRR FM flat?
looked very similar[ rivits and measurements] from specs in MRR.
To recoup tooling costs that would have to be part of a work car series.
I don’t think there would be many production numbers otherwise.
An LIRR version would have been another choice, however there’s no other MOW’s to run with it in true O right now.
I’m still waiting on Weaver items from almost 2 years ago.
I don’t think there would be many production numbers otherwise.
An LIRR version would have been another choice, however there’s no other MOW’s to run with it in true O right now.
I’m still waiting on Weaver items from almost 2 years ago.
quote:Originally posted by prrhorseshoecurve:quote:One has to wonder if at the same time the Weaver folks are tooling the GR/GRa car they will realize that it's based upon the FM flat? I know they have a generic 40 footer but the FM ran into Conrail days as MOW cars.
I thought Weaver's 40' Flat introduces a couple of years ago WAS the PRR FM flat?
Hang on, let me look at my FM again.. I think I got my flat cars confuzzled!
The car in the Weaver photograph above is a PRR class GR gondola.
PRR class GR and GRa gondola were not identical cars, there is a difference of about two feet in length and three feet in truck centers. The GR was built starting in 1902 with a total production 13000 and the GR was produced between 1907-1916 total built slightly over 14000.
The ORER numbers:
GR 4-52 453 cars, 10-58 39 cars
GRa 4-52 3951 cars, 10-58 246 cars
Three GRa's were still on the roster at the beginning of Penn Central in 68.
Both classes were converted to MOW and also both classes were converted to flat cars, but not to the class FM, they were converted to FGR and FGRa.
The ORER numbers:
FGR 4-52 133 cars, 10-58 15 cars
FGRa 4-52 114 cars, 10-58 6 cars
The Reading and CNJ both had composite gondolas that looked similar to this car. Eric Neubauer's October 1988 RMC article/drawing on the Reading Composite Gondolas had a chart of the Inside lengths. They all had the same inside height of 2'6". Here are the different Inside Lengths.
PRR GR IL 37'6"
PRR GRa IL 40'6"
RDG GHc,d IL 42'0"
CNJ GMB,d IL 40'0"
The ORER numbers:
RDG GHd 4-52 88 cars
Both the CNJ and the RDG cars had a different number of ribs than the PRR GR. The RDG/CNJ cars were missing the extra rib that the PRR cars had between the bolster rib and the end of the car. Also, their two long ribs at the cross members were shorter than the GR's.
This makes the third car that Weaver is going to produce that Rails Unlimited already produced as a resin kit. The B&O M-53, the Milwaukee 40' Rib-side boxcar and now the PRR GR gondola.
PRR class GR and GRa gondola were not identical cars, there is a difference of about two feet in length and three feet in truck centers. The GR was built starting in 1902 with a total production 13000 and the GR was produced between 1907-1916 total built slightly over 14000.
The ORER numbers:
GR 4-52 453 cars, 10-58 39 cars
GRa 4-52 3951 cars, 10-58 246 cars
Three GRa's were still on the roster at the beginning of Penn Central in 68.
Both classes were converted to MOW and also both classes were converted to flat cars, but not to the class FM, they were converted to FGR and FGRa.
The ORER numbers:
FGR 4-52 133 cars, 10-58 15 cars
FGRa 4-52 114 cars, 10-58 6 cars
The Reading and CNJ both had composite gondolas that looked similar to this car. Eric Neubauer's October 1988 RMC article/drawing on the Reading Composite Gondolas had a chart of the Inside lengths. They all had the same inside height of 2'6". Here are the different Inside Lengths.
PRR GR IL 37'6"
PRR GRa IL 40'6"
RDG GHc,d IL 42'0"
CNJ GMB,d IL 40'0"
The ORER numbers:
RDG GHd 4-52 88 cars
Both the CNJ and the RDG cars had a different number of ribs than the PRR GR. The RDG/CNJ cars were missing the extra rib that the PRR cars had between the bolster rib and the end of the car. Also, their two long ribs at the cross members were shorter than the GR's.
This makes the third car that Weaver is going to produce that Rails Unlimited already produced as a resin kit. The B&O M-53, the Milwaukee 40' Rib-side boxcar and now the PRR GR gondola.
quote:Originally posted by DaveJfr0:quote:This makes the third car that Weaver is going to produce that Rails Unlimited already produced as a resin kit. The B&O M-53, the Milwaukee 40' Rib-side boxcar and now the PRR GR gondola.
That has to be driving Ted crazy. It may keep him from bringing future obscure kits to the market.
So, when is Weaver bringing out the coffin pickle car?
quote:Originally posted by mwb:quote:Originally posted by DaveJfr0:quote:This makes the third car that Weaver is going to produce that Rails Unlimited already produced as a resin kit. The B&O M-53, the Milwaukee 40' Rib-side boxcar and now the PRR GR gondola.
That has to be driving Ted crazy. It may keep him from bringing future obscure kits to the market.
So, when is Weaver bringing out the coffin pickle car?
I don't know about the pickle car but Ted's Santa Fe Reefer or the USRA 46' mill gondola should both be on their list.
Isn't the Atlas Trainman 50 foot single sheathed boxcar close to Ted's Western Pacific 50' Double Door Boxcar?
Maybe we should just ask Ted's what car from his line is going to be done next?
The Weaver car, is as George posted, a GR...
Ted's car is a GRa -- close, but probably different enough for the SPF to consider both...
Thanks for the info on the RDG/CNJ gons...while not the same, they're probably close enough to justify Weaver doing them, as well as the LIRR gons...
The Trainman 50' wood box IS based on the same WP prototype as Ted's car, although it's also the same prototype MDC/Roundhouse used on their HO model and if you look at the detailing, the Atlas car REALLY seems like a scaled-up version of the MDC car...the folks who want the car minus the clunky, molded-on detailing have the option of the resin kit...
I don't think that Weaver's actively targeting any of Ted's cars -- he's produced common, road-specific prototypes and when Weaver moved into this area with injection-molded cars, it seems kinda obvious that they'd go with similar common cars like the wagon-top and rib-side car...personally, I think there will always be room for resin -- a lot of folks are "builders of things" who love the challenge of a resin kit...and then you have clods like me who have 10 thumbs, but still want a varied, accurate roster...
I think Weaver could really have a smash hit with a common, but currently unavailable steam-era tanker, like the UTLX X-3 or Type 21...
Brian
Ted's car is a GRa -- close, but probably different enough for the SPF to consider both...
Thanks for the info on the RDG/CNJ gons...while not the same, they're probably close enough to justify Weaver doing them, as well as the LIRR gons...
The Trainman 50' wood box IS based on the same WP prototype as Ted's car, although it's also the same prototype MDC/Roundhouse used on their HO model and if you look at the detailing, the Atlas car REALLY seems like a scaled-up version of the MDC car...the folks who want the car minus the clunky, molded-on detailing have the option of the resin kit...
I don't think that Weaver's actively targeting any of Ted's cars -- he's produced common, road-specific prototypes and when Weaver moved into this area with injection-molded cars, it seems kinda obvious that they'd go with similar common cars like the wagon-top and rib-side car...personally, I think there will always be room for resin -- a lot of folks are "builders of things" who love the challenge of a resin kit...and then you have clods like me who have 10 thumbs, but still want a varied, accurate roster...
I think Weaver could really have a smash hit with a common, but currently unavailable steam-era tanker, like the UTLX X-3 or Type 21...
Brian
quote:Originally posted by Lackawanna1223:
The Weaver car, is as George posted, a GR...
Ted's car is a GRa -- close, but probably different enough for the SPF to consider both...
Thanks for the info on the RDG/CNJ gons...while not the same, they're probably close enough to justify Weaver doing them, as well as the LIRR gons...
Brian,
You're welcome on the CNJ/RDG information.
Weaver is posting a photo of a GR but calling the model "40' Woodside Gondolas" on their website. There is always the chance that it ends up being a mixture of the GR and GRa dimensions. And not accurate for either car. Weaver has not committed to either car.
Actually for the transition era modeler a GRa is a better choice as they lasted longer in larger numbers because they were built up to 1916.
quote:Originally posted by Lackawanna1223:
I don't think that Weaver's actively targeting any of Ted's cars -- he's produced common, road-specific prototypes and when Weaver moved into this area with injection-molded cars, it seems kinda obvious that they'd go with similar common cars like the wagon-top and rib-side car...personally, I think there will always be room for resin -- a lot of folks are "builders of things" who love the challenge of a resin kit...and then you have clods like me who have 10 thumbs, but still want a varied, accurate roster...
I think Weaver could really have a smash hit with a common, but currently unavailable steam-era tanker, like the UTLX X-3 or Type 21...
Brian
I can't say they are or are not following Ted's path. But given the fact that the O scale community is missing so many signature type of cars, as compared to HO. Wouldn't it be nice if we actually got new prototypes, instead of manufacturers taking the low hanging fruit that someone else has proven to be a good car to do?
There is always the thought of what is released as a kit is of no value to the R-T-R market. I don't like it but you are absolutely right about that. Same thing to some extent can be said about the brass market.
I think we would be better served if they followed some of the HO manufacturers. They have already mapped out a lot of cars which could be very popular and sell well. Just give us some of the HO best sellers.
Hey guys -- especially George,
I had a big response written up and the computer ate it, so let's keep it brief:
1) George, I completely agree with you. There's plenty of prototypes left untouched, and I hope the importers/manufacturers remember that when choosing prototypes. Honestly, I would have preferred a PRR GS steel gon, but that wasn't in the cards.
By the way, did you do the Lehigh & New England station logos in the L&NE color book?
2) Over on the 3 Rail Scale thread pertaining to this car, a forum member posted a reply from the folks at Weaver which states that the gondola is a generic woodside gon that is CLOSE to the PRR car, but not a 100%. This leads me to think it may use the existing Weaver 40' flatcar tooling as a basis. I don't know about this last bit -- that's my conjecture.
So:
3) From what I can gather: Ted's resin kit is still the only currently 100% accurate PRR GRa gondola. The Weaver car should be a close stand-in. So there ya go.
Brian
I had a big response written up and the computer ate it, so let's keep it brief:
1) George, I completely agree with you. There's plenty of prototypes left untouched, and I hope the importers/manufacturers remember that when choosing prototypes. Honestly, I would have preferred a PRR GS steel gon, but that wasn't in the cards.
By the way, did you do the Lehigh & New England station logos in the L&NE color book?
2) Over on the 3 Rail Scale thread pertaining to this car, a forum member posted a reply from the folks at Weaver which states that the gondola is a generic woodside gon that is CLOSE to the PRR car, but not a 100%. This leads me to think it may use the existing Weaver 40' flatcar tooling as a basis. I don't know about this last bit -- that's my conjecture.
So:
3) From what I can gather: Ted's resin kit is still the only currently 100% accurate PRR GRa gondola. The Weaver car should be a close stand-in. So there ya go.
Brian
Brian,
Yes, I did do the station sign graphics on Doug's L&NE book. That goes back a ways.
I read the same thing into Weaver's response on the other thread.
I think you are correct about this might not be an accurate model. Not saying it won't be close enough for a good part of the modeling population. It might not be as nice as the B&O car or the soon to be released PRR H30.
No one has mentioned yet if it really will be up to the level of the new cars or more like their old line of models. On Weaver's page they only states, "Individually Mounted Brake Wheel" So this car might have cast on grab irons.
I plan on waiting at least until we see a pilot model made from the tooling before even thinking about ordering any.
Yes, I did do the station sign graphics on Doug's L&NE book. That goes back a ways.
I read the same thing into Weaver's response on the other thread.
I think you are correct about this might not be an accurate model. Not saying it won't be close enough for a good part of the modeling population. It might not be as nice as the B&O car or the soon to be released PRR H30.
No one has mentioned yet if it really will be up to the level of the new cars or more like their old line of models. On Weaver's page they only states, "Individually Mounted Brake Wheel" So this car might have cast on grab irons.
I plan on waiting at least until we see a pilot model made from the tooling before even thinking about ordering any.
the referenced reply from Weaver verbatim:
"First of all, I need to let you know that this really isn't modeled precisely after the Pennsy Gondola. But it is actually a dead ringer for the car. We kind of did a generic one to accommodate a number of different roadnames, mainly to offset the tooling costs. We will do the Pennsy MOW gray & yellow paint schemes, once we produce the first batch of already announced paint schemes."
As of late, Weaver has raised its own bar substantially with the B&O Wagontop and upcoming H30. Going forward it would be a detrimental business decision for them to go backwards in regards to detailing the announced gondola, which I don't think Weaver is going to do. While the GRA may not be a 100% accurate model, I have faith that it will be of a caliber we have recently come to expect from them.
Time will tell.
"First of all, I need to let you know that this really isn't modeled precisely after the Pennsy Gondola. But it is actually a dead ringer for the car. We kind of did a generic one to accommodate a number of different roadnames, mainly to offset the tooling costs. We will do the Pennsy MOW gray & yellow paint schemes, once we produce the first batch of already announced paint schemes."
As of late, Weaver has raised its own bar substantially with the B&O Wagontop and upcoming H30. Going forward it would be a detrimental business decision for them to go backwards in regards to detailing the announced gondola, which I don't think Weaver is going to do. While the GRA may not be a 100% accurate model, I have faith that it will be of a caliber we have recently come to expect from them.
Time will tell.
quote:As of late, Weaver has raised its own bar substantially with the B&O Wagontop and upcoming H30. Going forward it would be a detrimental business decision for them to go backwards in regards to detailing the announced gondola, which I don't think Weaver is going to do.
I hope you are correct, but the B&O car and the Milw Ribside lists at $73 ea., and the Gon is at $48, leading me to suspect that the Gon will not have the same level of detail/"correctness".
Brian,
I agree with the need for a good X-3. I'd buy a lot of them (assuming they are done to the B&O box car level of quality).
Think Masterline vs Trainman, the MFGs have to appeal there products to all segments of the hobby.
Not that anyone is reading or cares, but this car was my idea, and Joe I and talked about it for a while, and he finally decided to do it. I remember the PRR GRa's from the 1960's. We basically started with the 40' fishbelly flat car, and Joe had the sides and ends designed, to fit with the flat car. Whether this will make the car a GR or GRa, I don't know. When you are on the production end of these projects, keeping the price down is a major consideration.
We will be doing custom runs of the car in Raritan River and O&W, which is the real reason I wanted Joe to do this car, although I like the PRR car too.
Does anyone know if the PRR had any of these cars painted in PRR MW yellow/black?
I've been wanting to get a PRR MW yellow gondola done for some time now......I was planning to do some of the Weaver 50' composite gondolas in PRR yellow, but pad printing between the bracing was going to be too difficult.
beth
We will be doing custom runs of the car in Raritan River and O&W, which is the real reason I wanted Joe to do this car, although I like the PRR car too.
Does anyone know if the PRR had any of these cars painted in PRR MW yellow/black?
I've been wanting to get a PRR MW yellow gondola done for some time now......I was planning to do some of the Weaver 50' composite gondolas in PRR yellow, but pad printing between the bracing was going to be too difficult.
beth
There is a good photo. I think it is in one of the Yanosy books, and is also on line at Robs Prr Freight Car Website. There is the link below.
http://prr.railfan.net/freight..._martin.jpg&fr=clGRA
http://prr.railfan.net/freight..._martin.jpg&fr=clGRA
"Not that anyone is reading or cares,"
As I write this, this thread has 1974 views, one of the highest count on page 1.
As I write this, this thread has 1974 views, one of the highest count on page 1.
quote:Originally posted by Beth Marshall-The Public Delivery Track:
We will be doing custom runs of the car in Raritan River and O&W, which is the real reason I wanted Joe to do this car, although I like the PRR car too.
beth
Is the O&W prototype or a fantasy scheme. Just wondering, How many road numbers will be available..
Thanks, OWmac
