New York Central/P&LE A2a Berkshire Locomotive

I think this would be one great locomotive to do in fantasy schemes. My first pick would be the original Norfolk Southern Railway. (the one taken over by Southern Railway in 1964.) The NS had 2-8-4s though much lighter than the NYC A2s. Besides I bet a lot of people would like a steam locomotive with the Norfolk Southern road name on it.

Totally correct on that engine Skip. It is one of my favorites. I run it with my Menards "nose art" boxcars and a military flatcar or two. Great set.

Gerry

Here here Skip, I'd like to see one as well.

I'm on the hunt for one!!

They are attractive in the dark olive paint.

I totally agree Skip!  One of the first thoughts I had when I heard the news about MTH was not ever seeing this engine offered again.  Maybe there’s some hope again?

If Lionel has/gets hold of the tooling you’ll need a second mortgage to purchase one.

@superwarp1 posted:

If Lionel has/gets hold of the tooling you’ll need a second mortgage to purchase one.

Sometimes you just gotta do what it takes!!!

Surely this is among the nice steam models that Lionel cherry picked. I would be in for one. I wish Lionel would use the tooling from the formerly K-line J1e Hudson (If they own it) and produce one of those with Legacy.

The locomotive nobody really wanted. (The real one.) NYC (P&LE) was already committed to diesel power by 1947 when the A2a's were built. Crews didn't want them, shop people didn't want them, They were slow with their small drivers. NYC just had only seven to keep the online coal shippers happy in a diesel world. They had a short lifespan of only about 7 years. These were the last steam engines built by Alco, and the tenders were built by Lima.

Do we know if Lionel bought any Premier Steam engines? While the engine is unique I m not sure it has broad appeal. Might explain why MTH never reran it. Then again if Lionel loads it up with special steam effects, Legacy fans might scoop it up even if they have little interest in P&LE or NYC.

Pete

The A2 is unique both in appearance and from a historical perspective.  It’s kind of an ugly duckling (IMO), but I that only increases its appeal.  But with one exception (and that happens to be an MTH Niagara), I’m a RK guy so this engine is not for me.  But if there were a RK version…

Good call Skip - I think Lionel would do a great job from both a performance and cosmetic standpoint - similar to the Niagara project from a few years ago

Classic Trains had a really good piece on this engine - I remember reading this on the beach and not being able to the magazine down 😊

Always loved this painting from the Howard Fogg collection

@Randy_B posted:

Surely this is among the nice steam models that Lionel cherry picked. I would be in for one. I wish Lionel would use the tooling from the formerly K-line J1e Hudson (If they own it) and produce one of those with Legacy.

They did,…the VL Hudson the latest J3a , and the ESE, are all  derived from Kline tooling,…….flip either one of those Hudsons over on their backs, and do the same with a Kline Hudson ….your jaw will hit the ground,…they’re all so similar it’s kinda spooky,….😉

Pat

@RickO posted:

That's the $64,000 question. So far it's what? The c liners and the house on fire minus the water feature? Maybe a few other things I didn't pay attention too?

It will likely take several years of catalogs to find out what Lionel acquired, not unlike the KLINE acquisition. Anything "exciting" will more likely appear in volume 1 catalogs each year.

Considering Mth is still offering custom runs. I suspect they held on to more than just their Pacific's.

While the A2a would certainly add some variety to the Lionels offerings. I'd much rather see some Legacy L3 or L4 mohawks.

No need to wait for Lionel to do a L3/L4,  Bruk going to be converting my MTH L4 to Legacy this fall.

@harmonyards posted:

They did,…the VL Hudson the latest J3a , and the ESE, are all  derived from Kline tooling,…….flip either one of those Hudsons over on their backs, and do the same with a Kline Hudson ….your jaw will hit the ground,…they’re all so similar it’s kinda spooky,….😉

Pat

I have to disagree with this statement.  I was talking to Dave Olson about the J3 and I’m pretty sure he stated the J3a tooling was the same tooling Lionel used for the first J3 Lionel did in the early 2000s.  Maybe Kline copied that early lionel Hudson for their version.  Who knows

Has anyone approached Scott Mann to do this?  Since no one has mentioned Sunset/3rd Rail as part of the search for prior runs, I'm guessing Scott's never done it.  Anyone in O2R?

Granted, steam engines are becoming rare on the futures list for 3rd Rail.  But, hey...ho-hum appearance, late-to-the-party history, very few 1:1 numbers, minimal flags...that's called 'uniqueness', IMHO.  Besides, with few flags and minimal-to-none variations, the research would probably be easier. 

I'm not a NYC/P&LE fan...no reservation potential here..., but I'm aware there are a lot of you out there.  Scott's posting for reservations of the H-10a, another 8-driver engine, is testament to that.   Besides, there's a possibility 3rd Rail's version wouldn't shackle the shekels as deeply as, ...well, .......'nuf said.

And, FWIW, I've always thought this Berkshire had that 'burly brute' (yet lovable!) visage. Sort of like...

...also low to the ground, small-'drivered'.

Never hurts to ask.  Groveling sometimes works.  Weeping or wailing?....probably a bit over-the-top.

KD

@superwarp1 posted:

I have to disagree with this statement.  I was talking to Dave Olson about the J3 and I’m pretty sure he stated the J3a tooling was the same tooling Lionel used for the first J3 Lionel did in the early 2000s.  Maybe Kline copied that early lionel Hudson for their version.  Who knows

Disagree all you wish,….the Korean made J3’s including the 28072, 38041 & 28084 share nothing in common with the VL Hudson, the ESE, and the latest J3 ……for starters, the above mentioned Korean made models all have bolt on drivers and completely different chassis designs,…..I’ve taken a Kline boiler and sat it on my latest J3a and the bolt holes line up, and the shell sits on the chassis like it was meant to be,….AGAIN, flip the latest J3 on its back, and a Kline and you’ll see for yourself, if the VL chassis or the latest J3 chassis were available, I wouldn’t have to use a MTH chassis on the Kline swaps,…..that’d be a bolt in affair,…..we’ve already proven this to be true on other Kline scale offerings that Lionel modded the chassis for Legacy engines….

Pat

@Norton posted:

Do we know if Lionel bought any Premier Steam engines? While the engine is unique I m not sure it has broad appeal. Might explain why MTH never reran it. Then again if Lionel loads it up with special steam effects, Legacy fans might scoop it up even if they have little interest in P&LE or NYC.

Pete

Hmm, yeah but as Don has told me and others at York, Central sells. While we could argue that point till the end of time, it still bears the question of what the consumer will buy. I know I would buy it in a heartbeat, but if the price is higher than what most would consider a no brainer, it of course will not sell well.

Now I don't know if this particular design was used widely with other railroads other than what has already been said, but we have seen what this leads to. How many offerings of engines have come out with "fantasy" paint schemes? Quite a few. Why? This is the easy answer(at least for road names not clown paint schemes). If they produce a number of fantasy road names, they can at least run into a buyers market.

Having said that though, this also can backfire like it did with the Acela offerings. How many fantasy paint schemes did they pitch and how many made the cut?

@RickO posted:

That's the $64,000 question. So far it's what? The c liners and the house on fire minus the water feature? Maybe a few other things I didn't pay attention too?

It will likely take several years of catalogs to find out what Lionel acquired, not unlike the KLINE acquisition. Anything "exciting" will more likely appear in volume 1 catalogs each year.

Considering Mth is still offering custom runs. I suspect they held on to more than just their Pacific's.

While the A2a would certainly add some variety to the Lionels offerings. I'd much rather see some Legacy L3 or L4 mohawks.

Well, I think that if they did, we won't find out any of these answers until they tell us in whatever catalog these would show up in and reviewed on the Ryan and Dave show. Some of us had wondered if they got a hold of the Dreyfuss, some articulated's, someone wondered about the Triplex(you can keep that one in my book) and even some of the European engines. I know I told Ryan at York once that I'd go for Mallard's and some of the British steamers I know about. We just have to sit, wait and see unfortunately.

If I were to sell my 20-3128-1 in excellent condition with PS-2, what would be a fair price?

We’re getting a little off the subject matter of the thread, but tooling is a portion of this topic, so here it goes, and hopefully the mods let me go on a technicality,..😉

this is a Legacy ESE upside down next to an older Kline stock chassis from a J1e,….anyone care to count the similarities?…granted, Lionel altered the Kline tooling to accept a motor in the firebox ( as the good lord intended it) ….the VL Hudson, and the J3a are darn near identical,…many points same as,…..the Korean built chassis looks nothing like either one of these,….

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

They did,…the VL Hudson the latest J3a , and the ESE, are all  derived from Kline tooling,…….flip either one of those Hudsons over on their backs, and do the same with a Kline Hudson ….your jaw will hit the ground,…they’re all so similar it’s kinda spooky,….😉

Pat

I wish they would have used the shell as well. I have the VL Hudson and the latest J3a also thankfully.

@Randy_B posted:

I wish they would have used the shell as well. I have the VL Hudson and the latest J3a also thankfully.

I doubt you’ll see another Hudson come out of that camp for a long time,…I could be wrong, but the likelihood isn’t high,…..if you yearn for a Legacy J1e, pick up a MTH model, and ship it to the Legacy Dr.’s Bruk or Sid,…….they have an established track record of churning out some amazing Legacy swaps, ….whistle steam & all,…..I believe Bruk just did a B&A J2 ( J1 in drag) for superwarp1 ( Gary) and he was proud to show it off,…..truth be told, If you hunt for a deal on a PS1 wanted dead or alive, even with Bruk doing the job, it may be cheaper than buying a new one ( if they were available)  ….but I’m speculating on that, you’d have to ask the Legacy doctors that question,……

Pat

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