New York Ontario & Western Lionel Legacy F3's - Oh Boy is this wrong!!!

I got called yesterday and was notified these were in - eagerly picked them up today and am grossly disappointed. 

While there may be opinions on what color gray is "correct" on NYO&W equipment (as built, faded, questionable early color photos), these are completely wrong.  The catalog pics are gray.  They models are SILVER! 

Catalog image above...

Lionel F3 above...

Comparison to MTH FT above...

Not even close - metallic siver. 

How does this stuff happen???

Looks like the orange is a bit off too. 

That is a big time screw-up, someone did not do their homework.

    Bill T.

I’m no expert on the O&W, but that is DEFINITELY wrong. And ugly too. I understand your disappointment and would send them back.

What a disaster. Now what? Return them --

That's some Legacy.  

Didn't they screw up the paint on this roadname on the NW2 also?

Pretty bad

T&P just as bad. Not only the blue, but here is more silver from the Santa Fe's.

Atlas next to Lionel -I have to send these back.

That's right after the CB&Q merger!

Simon

I would send them back but I bet most buyers will not care or just don't know or thinks Lionel can't do no wrong and they will keep them. 

Number one reason not to pre-order. 

Dave

Has anyone gotten their pennsy ones yet? I’m curious to see the paintjob on them

Who or what corporation owns lionel these days ?

@T1Titan_ZachF posted:

Has anyone gotten their pennsy ones yet? I’m curious to see the paintjob on them

They should be in. Charlie Ro has dinged me for the Superbass B unit. I will have to compare this one to the TMCC versions which were painted funky and had added incorrect details.

Sort of a reverse from years ago when Lionel offered what could have been a beautiful WP 'Feather River' Geep Service Station Set and the expected Silver came in as a dull gray... Caboose too, just cheap unpainted plastic.

Has anyone received a Great Northern version of these yet? I pre-ordered an ABA and these photos are making me anxious to see how they really turned out...

I have a FedEx tracking number from Charles Ro. Delivery set for tomorrow. Guess I'll be sending them back. Too bad, I was really looking forward to them.

Normally, I do love Lionel, but I really don't understand how in this day and age how you can mess up on the colors this badly.

Went back in the box right after the photos to be returned...

Mikado 4501 posted:

Normally, I do love Lionel, but I really don't understand how in this day and age how you can mess up on the colors this badly.

Could be a loss in a translation from English to Chinese or something to that effect, I really feel bad for the T&P and NYO&W operators. Reminds me of an experience I had in France, ordering from a French menu, what I thought I ordered and what I actually received. Good luck in getting this situation resolved...

david1 posted:

I would send them back but I bet most buyers will not care or just don't know or thinks Lionel can't do no wrong and they will keep them. 

Number one reason not to pre-order. 

Dave

I agree with the above.  Only a small percentage of 3 rail buyers care about prototype fidelity.  This is why fantasy paint schemes are big sellers.  The Daylight SP cab forward is a classic example.  

NH Joe

A few years back the Grand Trunk F3 came with a green that wasn't close to anything. I see they are still getting it wrong. 

So who exactly is on that QA/QC team?  That is a poor excuse for Legacy locomotives.  These are high-end premium products for discerning customers - you'd think they'd get the colors correct.

-Greg

New Haven Joe posted:

david1 posted:

I would send them back but I bet most buyers will not care or just don't know or thinks Lionel can't do no wrong and they will keep them. 

Number one reason not to pre-order. 

Dave

I agree with the above.  Only a small percentage of 3 rail buyers care about prototype fidelity.  This is why fantasy paint schemes are big sellers.  The Daylight SP cab forward is a classic example.  

NH Joe

Care to quote your source for that information?  I believe the opposite is true - customers care a great deal about prototype fidelity.   The fantasy schemes sell well because we like a particular engine and would like to own a model in our favorite road name even if one was never owned by that railroad in real life.  It doesn't mean we want prototypical schemes done incorrectly and nor does it mean we're ok with manufacturers delivering a product significantly different than what was pictured in a catalogue.   Stuff like this is either laziness, arrogance or a combination of both.

-Greg

Greg Houser posted:

So who exactly is on that QA/QC team?  That is a poor excuse for Legacy locomotives.  These are high-end premium products for discerning customers - you'd think they'd get the colors correct.

-Greg

"So who exactly is on that QA/QC team?"

Totally unacceptable.  Who is doing the research and quality checking the factory?  

years ago who cared. now if you go to the trouble to paint multiple colors why use the wrong colors?  did they think we would not notice and not compare with other models??

Omg! I am so glad I didn't pre order these! I have the MTH version of the F-3 but I was thinking of getting the Lionels because of Legacy and the better sound system but now I'm glad I didn't. (at least the NW-2 s wern't silver.

There is a LONG standing precedent for this sort of thing! Back in '57 there was an Illinois Central F3. Nice looking loco, but IC never had any F units! The colors were correct, or shall we say they matched the prototype E units!

Simon

Personally, I prefer hearing all opinions, including those that may differ from mine. There is frequently more to learn from differing opinions than from similar opinions. Criticising others for voicing their opinions is not an appropriate path to follow. Just my opinion.

For smaller railroad schemes, if there are not enough pre-orders, then there will be nothing ordered and available in train stores.

Andrews

Who can do Masking and repainting?

Will weathering dull the shine enough?

I thought Lionel had some QC people in China, I hope they brought their seeing-eye dogs with them! Whoever ok'ed these should be fired .Didn't they have any pictures to go by? 

Andrew Gallousis posted:

Has anyone received a Great Northern version of these yet? I pre-ordered an ABA and these photos are making me anxious to see how they really turned out...

I'll get the GN F units if the orange is correct, but I wasn't about to preorder without seeing them first. Lionel has screwed up the orange badly on their GN models for years now, using shades of orange that are way too red. After complaints about it, they said they'd correct it on these new F units, but I'm waiting to see if they actually do.

Lionel's GP-35, for example. Not even close to the right color.

It's not the first time.  Maybe, Lionel will be able to offer correct replacement shell exchanges like they did with their pinkish 2009 Santa Fe F3 Conventional Classic replacement shell program.  Unfortunately, these current day Legacy F3 shells have much more detail than the basic post-war style conventional classic F3 shells; not necessarily an easy customer 4 screw removal process.

With the availability of industry color/pantone standards and the expected design, prototype, production and related review and its related acceptance confirm/exception process I can't imagine how obvious color (or spelling) mistakes occur AND that product still ends up being shipped to the importer AND THEN AGAIN to the retailer/customer. Unless the current silver color was Lionel selected and/or approved early on, wasn't at least one of these NYOW units received, looked over to spec and tested in North Carolina before the international shipping containers were broken down and forwarded to the retail dealers?

The o gauge toy train international supply chain must be a perpetual Rolaids moment.

MIKATT1 posted:

I thought Lionel had some QC people in China, I hope they brought their seeing-eye dogs with them!

Maybe they did, but aren't dogs color blind?

When you're paying hundreds of dollars for a toy train you'd expect it to be accurate. No excuses. Is QC color blind?? These are not just a slightly off shade but completely different. Even my grandma who has bad eyes could see the difference!

Stinky1 posted:

When you're paying hundreds of dollars for a toy train you'd expect it to be accurate.

If ACCURACY is truly your thing, maybe it is time to look at a 2 rail model???

Come over to the dark side.

Simon

.....and the number boards are incorrect; should be 822 NOT 822A.  Pic of sister 821 at Maybrook NY 1956.

The question remains on how did both the O&W and T&P pass pre-production quality control. I guess it is possible that the silver was used instead of gray per Lionel's direction and was not a mistake at the factory.

   Bill T.