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I run my Trackman 2000 track cleaner with Scotchbrite pads on my Gargraves/Ross, no problem at all.  Since I need a dummy load for testing repairs, I just drag around the track cleaner.  Keeps stuff off the track, tests the repairs, and I spend zero time cleaning track.  What's not to like?

John, I think the concept is you can do better and perhaps not run your Trackman 2000 at all.  I would also be curious about the abrasiveness of the Scotchbrite you use.  Anything more abrasive than 600 grit is not recommended because it scratches the rail which exacerbates the problem.

The field testing suggests one cannot do better than to clean with a non-polar solvent – mineral spirits appears to be the best choice – followed by a treatment with either NO-OX or graphite.  The debate as to which is better is open with graphite appearing to be better if for no other reason than it is easier.

@laming posted:

The two rail scale side of the hobby (HO mainly, some N, etc) swear by graphite sticks. Some of their testimonies indicate effective results.

No time to elaborate at the moment (off to church in a few for music practice prior to three services), but I can do so later if interested.

Andre

Andre, yes please elaborate.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

@Tom Stoltz posted:

John, I think the concept is you can do better and perhaps not run your Trackman 2000 at all.  I would also be curious about the abrasiveness of the Scotchbrite you use.  Anything more abrasive than 600 grit is not recommended because it scratches the rail which exacerbates the problem.

Given the fact that I have zero issues running conventional or command on my layout, I don't see the need to slather the tracks with yet another liquid.  Even examining the track with my 600x microscope, I don't see any evidence that the Scotchbrite I'm using is damaging my track.  I suspect I'll be long gone before it does.

You also miss the point.  The only time I actually run the track cleaner is to provide a convenient load for testing a locomotive, so I really don't "run" my track cleaner at all.

Given the fact that I have zero issues running conventional or command on my layout, I don't see the need to slather the tracks with yet another liquid.

You also miss the point.  The only time I actually run the track cleaner is to provide a convenient load for testing a locomotive, so I really don't "run" my track cleaner at all.

Graphite isn't a liquid.  And how one cleans their track and wheels is a matter of choice, it's just that some ways really are better than others -- but to each his own.

So you basically don't clean your track or wheels?  Please share your secret...

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

@Tom Stoltz posted:

Andre, yes please elaborate.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

As best I can discern among the signal noise within threads dealing with this, the common denominators seem to be:

* Use of metal wheels on ALL rolling equipment is highly recommended. (Personal observation: Given my track cleaning woes of the past, I have been very stringent to apply this with my current HO equipment. This alone has resulted if much reduced track contact issues for my HO engines.)

* Begin by cleaning all engine and rolling stock wheels.

* Clean the track using mineral spirits and let dry.

* Using a 2B - 4B graphite stick (available at artist supplies) Just touch/lightly mark the tops of the rails every foot or so.

* Lightly kiss the inside of the rail/points at a switch.

* Running the trains will distribute the graphite.

According to the proponents of such a regimen, their track cleaning has been greatly reduced even in HO.

The above is "FWIW" and of course, your opinion may differ greatly from the above.

I do have all metal wheels on my equipment, but I have yet to purchase a 2B - 4B graphite stick(s) to implement into my track maintenance process.

Andre

@laming posted:

As best I can discern among the signal noise within threads dealing with this, the common denominators seem to be:



* Using a 2B - 4B graphite stick (available at artist supplies) Just touch/lightly mark the tops of the rails every foot or so.



Andre

I agree with all except where the graphite is applied.  Hold the graphite stick at a 45° angle and apply with one pass (if you can see it you have applied too much) to the inter edge for the rail.  If it is on top of the rail, graphite will give you as much trouble as ON-OX.

https://trainmasters.tv/progra...ivity-curemp4-d9ac23

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

I don't think NO OX ID does what some people seem to think, or perhaps I misunderstood some of the claims. This is simply conductive grease and the only way it could cause a condition where one wouldn't need to clean is if the grease is keeping the oxygen in the air from furthering oxidation. As I said before, I have cleaned my track twice, applied the grease, cleaned that off and I haven't run a train for more than an hour since I went through this last weekend. This morning I wiped down a few rails with a fresh, clean rag and it looks just as oxidized as it was when I started. I believe I will limit the use of NO OX ID to just the power rail, sparingly.

I stopped cleaning track now that I have a AC225 track cleaning transformer. Just hook it up to the track and turn it and off very quickly. It will remove all the oil and other types of dirt from the track. THE ONLY down side is that you need to remove all trains from the track. If not it will activate the smoke units in the trains , I left it too long one day,  did you know flat cars have smoke units, who knew.

20220320_154954

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Last edited by CBS072
@CBS072 posted:

I stopped cleaning track now that I have a AC225 track cleaning transformer. Just hook it up to the track and turn it and off very quickly. It will remove all the oil and other types of dirt from the track. THE ONLY down side is that you need to remove all trains from the track. If not it will activate the smoke units in the trains , I left it too long one day,  did you know flat cars have smoke units, who knew.

20220320_154954

HA!  Do the rails light up like light bulb filaments?

Keith

I have had a Lincoln AC225 for over forty years, and thought I should have one since I learned to weld in 8 grade metal shop!  I have used it maybe 5 times but did use it last year and found out I had a hard time to keep from sticking the rods.

I am glad you have found another use for it.  225 amps verses 10 amps or so for most Lionel transformers is good upgrade an ought to keep the tracks clean.

Charlie

Last edited by Choo Choo Charlie

Keith

I had to have Lincoln AC225 forty years ago, since I learned to weld in 8 grade metal shop!  I have used it maybe 5 times but did use it last year and found out I had a hard time from sticking the rods.

I am glad you have found another use for it.

Charlie

What does it do to the rails?  Or maybe I should ask, how does it work?  If it makes the rails hot then plastic ties would be a problem... but I am curious.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Dan, Tom, turkey hollow and others

Although NO OX ID spec A is called a grease it is mostly a paraffin, like in wax (reported by some as 80%).  It does improve conduction by reducing sparking, which many think add to dirty track or cause most of the dirt on dirt track. There are hundreds of reports over 50 years that it reduces dirty track and by many, it improves slow train operation, especially for conventional control.

There are no data from controlled tests that show NO OX reduces sparking (although less or no sparking has been observed), and or eliminates track and wheel cleaning.  There is no incentive to pay for and conduct such testing as NO OX producer, Sanchem, would not increase sales much and model train track usage would be very small and they currently list model train track as a usage.

One has to take account of, prior users experiences as to NO OX effectiveness on model train track as reported often on train forums like this forum, model-railroad-hobbyist.com.  MRH forum (has hundreds of posts from 2010 and many on Z and HO rails.

The same thing must be done on thousands of prior purchasers reviews as to the worth and experience on thousand of items on Amazon and eBay reviews.

Many have reported that the use of graphite, and other compounds on train tracks.  They are always reported as similar to NO OX as to being a model train track treatment.  I believe they may very well work but have no idea if better or worse.  But most report the graphite has to be applied a least yearly where as NO OX is one and done forever.

I suspect the NO OX gives more positive results on O gauge sectional track on layouts with conventional control.  The sectional track has more gaps and more spark generating areas than longer sections of track.  Conventional control is likely to operate poorly at slow speeds with lower voltages having a lower electromotive force than the modern controls, with 18 volt constant track voltage.  Conventional controls slower operation is also limited by the minimum transformer voltage of 6 to 8 volts also.

I doubt that all track situations will give equal results on the use of NO OX, as some operate well now, where as probable train operation of others (like my conventional controlled, 027 sectional track layout) will benefit greatly, with improved slow speed operation and no future track cleaning.

If rusty track is a problem for your layout with old style tin plated 0 or 027 sectional track, NO OX can be applied on the sides of the rails in additional to the top, to prevent rusting.  Personally I like the presence of some rust on the side of my rails as real train tracks almost always have rust on the sides.

Perhaps some organization like OGR or CTT could perform a controlled study and produce the data to prove the claims for NO OX or show them faulty.  A few of us have used NO OX for O gauge trains and believe it has improved train operation and eliminates track cleaning.  Many others are stuck on their track cleaning method and believe in it and love to clean track once or twice a year:  so be it.  I find it hard to understand why there is so little acceptance of trying NO OX for, especially post war trains and with conventional transformer controlled O gauge trains.  And only a $10 cost and a good track cleaning is risked and involved.

I think NO OX application is the best improvement I have ever made to the operation of my layout and love never having to be bothered with track cleaning ever again.

NO-OX Charlie

Last edited by Choo Choo Charlie

I tried it on my Menards tubular track and I have maybe 8 or 9 months of experience. I am a conventional operator and can attest to a marked improvement in slow speed operation. My track cleaning car still brings up plenty of black, but operation and sparking seem to be reduced.

But Sanchem the manufacturer really needs to differentiate their products because they all seem to be the same grease; maybe it all is. If you were ever in the military you are already familiar with it because it's basically cosmoline from what I can tell. I also use it as bulb grease now around the house and vehicles.

Post

OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Ste 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
800-980-OGRR (6477)
www.ogaugerr.com

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